Why Do You Like what you like?

[SilverDragonSoun]

I was playing a bunch of different digital pianos this weekend at a local music store which has a decent selection. (No GEM or Kurzweil stuff ) I noticed as I normally do that some sound better to me. I found my self wondering how could someone like the sound on the RD300X over the P120. It just doesnt sound as real or fluid to my ears. So I have this information in my head and when I see I post comparing things, Ive formed an opinion which is somewhat negative about a digital piano. Since there are so many accoustic pianos out there and they all have a different sound, who am I to say or think one digital piano sounds better or mare real than another. I know I have my personal preferences as we all do, but what makes me like one sound over another, or even ones action over another. I notice some people sing the praises of a keyboards action and/or sound and I think to myself am I listening to the same sounds or playing on the same action as they are. There are so many things better than this I say to myself. I figure I must account for the different aspects that can affect sound and action but I figure I cant be that far off base. What influences up to determine what sounds good to us?

 

I was in a piano store about a month ago and a guy was playing a few different pianos. He said he preferred the sound and action of the Baldwin over the Story and Clark and Nordiska he played. This guy said he was a music teacher at a university and that he tunes pianos on the side. I decided to play the same three and felt the Nordiska had the best action and sound by far. He said the Nordiska was his least favorite and the Baldwin was my least favorite. In my mind I couldnt figure how he could prefer the Baldwin. What causes us to like/dislike certain sounds and prefer others? Why do I generally prefer Yamaha and Kawaii pianos sounds over Korg and Roland? Why do you prefer one piano sound over another?

[Clavinovaguyusa]

In terms of real pianos: in my opinion there are three main concerns: Does the player like the feel of the piano? How does it sound to the player? How does it sound to the audience?

 

If the piano is being purchased for home use, the third does not matter.

 

If the piano is being purchased for performance, the third matters the most and the other concerns are weighed by the player.

 

Performance is the reason you would set up an appointment with a dealer to get quiet time in the piano showroom with a very qualified player/salesman. You want to listen to the dealers performance on each piano as well as play them yourself.

 

Since the person you talked to was a teacher and a tuner, his experiences with past instruments and their reliability probably had a great influence with what he told you.

 

He probably knows the history of the three brands mentioned. Baldwin is now owned by Gibson Corporation of Tennesse. Story and Clark is owned by QRS of American player piano roll fame and Nordiska was a brand of Swedish piano that is now manufactured in China.

[niacin]

I think it rather depends on what you grew up with, what feels familiar. To me, Yamaha pianos feel like home while Kawai grands (which have a significantly heavier action) are like a foreign country I have to cross to get to where I'm going.

[marino]

There are as many tastes in pianos as there are pianists. A piano is a very individual thing. It depends on how it feels under your fingers, and how this feeling relates to what you expect to hear in various playing situations. For me, there are so many inportant factors when judging a piano, that I'd love to own three of four, each for its particular strenghts. (Of course I couldn't do that )

[RABid]

I also think what you grew up with has a lot to do with it. I played a piano with a dark tone for most of my life and for me it can be much more expressive than something overly bright. I cannot imagine playing classical on anything else. For other people that do a lot of stage work in rock or pop, a bright piano may be necessary to cut through the mix.

 

As for touch, when playing rock I don't really care what type of touch is on the piano as long as it is fast. For classical I really want that hammer action feedback. Again because of growing up with a real piano. That first quarter inch of the key press is when you put the hammer into action and send it towards the string. The rest is mostly follow-through. With weighted keys it is not quite the same.

 

Robert

[ITGITC]

To my ears it seems as though many piano programs sound brittle and synth-like at higher velocities. This easily destroys the aural imagery - you're now convinced that what you're hearing is not the real thing.

 

I don't hear this with the Kurzweil equipment I own.

 

In fact, although I haven't heard every piano program available, by listening to the piano shoot-out MP3s on the web, I haven't found one - other than the Kurzweil - that doesn't have this synth quality at higher velocities. I am not doubting that they're out there.

 

Of course, latency would drive me bananas. This is one of the reasons I haven't ventured into software synths. For the work I do, having a hardware synth is the best approach.

 

Tone and touch are individual things and perceived differently by everyone. I think the Kurzweil PC2X touch is fine. However, since others have commented that the Yamaha s90es is better (in their opinion), I want to go try it. I'm still not so sure about the piano in the the s90es. I think I'll go audition it when I can. It's probably a distant # three after the PC2X, and the GEM Promega. I don't know. But that doesn't mean I can't tease Eric and Sue a little every chance I get, does it?

 

Hi Sue.

 

Merry Christmas and/or Happy Holidays.

 

Tom

[SilverDragonSoun]

All of you bring up interesting points and observations you've made. I grew up listening to alot of 70's and 80's music. I listened to alot of classic rock, 80's hard rock, some classical and solo performers like Neil Diamond and Barry Manilow. Yes I am openly admitting on a forum I liked and still like Barry Manilow.

 

I wonder how much of a correlation would exist by examining influences versus what you like now. As an example would the people who liked the same music as me like the same piano sound as me. If some people grew up liking Jazz would they prefer a different sound?

[midinut]

Originally posted by Silver Dragon Sound:

Yes I am openly admitting on a forum I liked and still like Barry Manilow.

I hereby nominate Chris for banishment!

 

Come on, somebody had to say it!

[Andre Lower]

Originally posted by midinut:

Originally posted by Silver Dragon Sound:

Yes I am openly admitting on a forum I liked and still like Barry Manilow.

I hereby nominate Chris for banishment!

 

Come on, somebody had to say it!

Hmmm, I'd vote for his banishment as well, but then again we'd be missing his courage: To let anyone know such an embarrassing aspect of his personality does take some guts! On the other hand, if this becomes a trend, we're bound to read people over here confessing they like Ricky Martin...

 

(just kiddin', ya know )

[Garrafon]

As far as piano sounds go, what I like largely has to do with the room I'm in. This is particularly so with acoustic pianos, but I find myself having similar issues with the digital pianos. In a bright, echoey (sp??) room, I prefer a darker sound. Conversely, in darker room, I tend to prefer a brighter sound.

[MidLifeCrisis]

If not banishment then we at least need to send him to purgatory. Chris will have to personally answer each noob "which keyboard for < $300" thread which appears over the next 30 days.

[K K]

IMHO, the sounds we prefer are linked to musical events linked to the emotional part of the brain. It can include songs where we heard or took time to truly discover an instrument for the first time, an exceptional rendition of a masterpiece, or even just any melody or rhythm linked to an past emotional event or which sounds special in some way to our ears, etc.

 

Action preference has more to do with physical parameters, like hand/fingers size and the way we like to play.

 

In my case, because I generally dislike its percussive characterictics, I want my piano (acoustic or digital) to sound dark and metaphysical, hence why for acoustic I prefer Bechstein and my own piano programs on my digital.

 

To me, the una corda pedal is of great importance and must dramatically change the tone, not just introduce a -5 dB volume change.

 

Of course, from time to time I'll enjoy an exaggerated percussive piano to play things like Maple Leaf Rag.

[DafDuc]

I don't think our "ideal" is a fixed thing, either. At least not mine. I *HATED* my church's Kawai K when I got there a year ago: frightfully tinny tone, too-heavy action, tuning slipped easily.

 

A little over a year later, I have completely come around - mostly because I play that thing 3 masses and a choir rehearsal every week, and then some. I've learned how to caress notes on it, I'm intimate with its dynamic range, its voice has been adopted by the piano-in-my-head when I'm working up parts on those crazy long drives to and from work. The tinny thing got solved by leaving the cover closed, the tuning stability got solved by using the long-neglected humidifier.

 

I'm guessing the Boston I used to play a few churches ago is aesthetically and mechanically a better instrument, but just like I'd take my wife in a heartbeat over the gorgeous girl I dated as a college freshman, so would I take the Kawai: I know how to make it purr now, and we've been through so much together, LOL.

 

Wow, is it getting warm in here?

 

Anyhow, there was a time when a Rhodes touch was what I craved because it was what I knew, and same with a QS-8 and an L-100. All at different phases of my career.

 

And the Krakauer upright I grew up on, it had a very deep throw and a VERY round dark tone, but it was beautiful. In the ears of this beholder, anyhow...

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by MidLifeCrisis:

If not banishment then we at least need to send him to purgatory. Chris will have to personally answer each noob "which keyboard for < $300" thread which appears over the next 30 days.

 

Wow. You guys are brutal. Good thing he didn't mention his friend who has a love affair with Karen Carpenter's voice. Pair that with a taste for beer and sheep and you have quite a picture.

 

Oh... Hi Sven.

 

It could be worse. I didn't mention his vast collection of Kenny G CDs.

[SilverDragonSoun]

I hereby nominate Chris for banishment!

 

I expected this. I was surprised I was still able to log on.

 

 

If not banishment then we at least need to send him to purgatory. Chris will have to personally answer each noob "which keyboard for < $300" thread which appears over the next 30 days.

 

Now this is flat out wrong. You shouldn't get the death sentence for running a red light. Man that's it, I plead temporary insanity.

see I'm not right. I need help.

[Dreamer]

Originally posted by Silver Dragon Sound:

Man that's it, I plead temporary insanity.

see I'm not right. I need help.

You are not alone.

[midinut]

Okay, we still love ya Chris ... but you really need to handle the noob posts (mainly so we don't hafta!) ... it's really the least you can do. That and we won't tell anyone else about the Kenny G thing ... and the sheep (oh wait that was Sven).

 

Happy Holidays to all and to all a goodnight!

 

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by Dreamer:

Originally posted by Silver Dragon Sound:

Man that's it, I plead temporary insanity.

see I'm not right. I need help.

You are not alone.

Please don't talk about me behind my back.

[Dreamer]

Tom,

as you said... there are many "Tom" on this Forum...