The importance of midrange

[phatmann]

When I first tried out my Barbetta 31C, I was actually wondering if it would be loud enough to cut through the rock band I play with. I could have gone with the 41C, but I was curious whether a 35-lb, small amp could be enough for me. I soon discovered that boosting the midrange and treble to 3/4 made a tremendous difference, so that was discovery #1. I made discovery #2 at rehearsal the other day. I noticed that even when playing the amp at relatively low levels, it was cutting through the band's sound like a hot knife through butter. It's all about the midrange clarity. The 31C has 2 8" speakers, so its midrange response is top-notch.

 

So my suggestion to anyone who is looking to buy a keyboard amp for rock playing: the midrange response and clarity might be even more important than wattage. This suggests that a cabinet with multiple 8" or 10" speakers might be superior to a single 12" or 15" in this regard.

 

Note that for some playing situations, bass response might be a factor, but I find myself cutting the bass on the 31C to give our bass player more sonic room.

 

Interestingly enough, the Barbetta site says a single full-range keyboard amp can never compete with a loud guitar amp (e.g. Twin Reverb), since guitar amps are optimized for the mid-range. But I beg to differ :-)

[ITGITC]

Good point, phatmann.

 

For someone looking to buy a keyboard amp for rock playing that will cut through the band's sound like a hot knife through butter, attention to the midrange is important.

 

If you're playing jazz or other music that demands full range, get another speaker.

 

This may indeed be a good alternative for some guys.

[MidLifeCrisis]

I came to the same conclusion for playing rock. But I could not find one amp that had all the sound characteristics I liked. I decided to go my own route and custom make my own cabs using Peavey Black Widows (guitar speakers) for the mids and Klipsch horns for the highs. I then added EV 15 subs to bottom it out. I have never had a moment of disappointment since.

Having piercing mids makes all the difference in the world, especially at solo time.

[Dreamer]

Can't you just buy a good equalizer and use the speaker of your choice?

 

(I know, I know... more weight to lug around... )

[Billdar]

Phatman, I think you are right about using multiple smaller speakers. I think that the Barbetta's are great amps for keyboards, and push that weight/spl envelope nicely. I'd like to see a new model that would push it just a little more, and maybe have stereo output as well.

[Bill H.]

Barbetta does some amazing things electronically to get two 8s to sound this good. I tried making a cab with two 8s+horn powered with a conventional amp, but ultimately went with a 15 because it was smoother. As I said in the other related thread a couple of days ago, it's possible to get a 15 in a small box to really project. It's the absence of low bass that cleans things up. If everything is fairly smooth from 120 Hz up you have a great keyboard speaker for rock.

[lerber3]

The larger speaker cabinets may have a much greater 'throw' so the sound may not focus for quite a distance.

 

Smaller speakers probable focus much closer, but SPL probably falls off with distance sooner.

 

I'm no expert, but I used to drive KBs through a pair of 15's that would rip the heads off the crowd when the stage volumes were balanced.

[Bill H.]

I should add that when I was experimenting around, choice of speaker was prime importance. For a 15 to sound good it needs a tight suspension and a good presence rise. What's in them now are Eminence Kappa Pros and I love their sound but they're kinda heavy. I may swipe them out for Neodynium Deltalites sometime. If I did I'd lose over 10 lbs per cab. But what they'd sound like is unknown to me.

 

HF drivers are B&C DE500s....wonderful drivers...coupled to P.Audio 7x15 horns. This really helps projection...bullets can't compare if what you're trying to do is get your sound past the stage...and I know not everyone is. But I'm often in ad hoc situations. Everything's bi-amped with a Driverack handling all DSP chores. Came up with this combination after several attempts...finally gave up...said this is good enough...

[The Real MC]

Barbetta is wrong. Here is a keyboard amp that can compete with guitar amps:

 

http://www.retrosynth.com/~analoguediehard/tour/moog_synamp/synamp.jpg

 

I bought a used one and it works really well. It has a pair of 200w power amps that can be operated stereo full range or mono biamped. But they are heavy and not many were made back in the 70s, probably because they retailed for over $3000 (in 1970s dollars!!!).

[phatmann]

I had an insecure moment tonight at rehearsal when the guitarist said that he could hear me better when I was using my Mackie SRM450. Was all my theory about midrange so much hooie?

 

Then he said perhaps its because I used to place the Mackie closer to him. So I turned my Barbetta his way and all was good. Phew!

 

So add "speaker angle" to the list of things to keep in mind :-)

[Billdar]

Yes speaker angle is a factor when using an amplifier for stage volume. Guitar amps with open rear cabinets tend to be loud all over the place, whereas powered speakers typically used with keyboards tend to focus the sound.

[Mr. Nightime]

I've been using a pair of 1-15 Peavey cabs loaded with Scorpions for some time now. I get the tone that I like for a wide variety of genres, while having the ability to be out in front with the sound when needed. I'm running flat on my board, with no additional EQ. I play with 2 guitarists, and I have had a constant battle with them because I cut through too well sometimes. I was too loud on them.

A slight speaker angle adjustment and now I can hear myself comfortably, I'm not too loud on them, and I'm right where I should be in the mix. All without sacrificing tone.

Plus, with my Motion sound Pro3TM going through it, I can rattle walls with the Hammond when I have to.

Of course, it helps to have a Crown for power.

[Billdar]

Phatmann,

 

You have gigged with both a Mackie SRM450 and a Barbette 31C.

 

Am I correct in assuming that once you boost the midrange on the Barbetta, that it is as loud as the Mackie, and overall, especially since it is lighter as well, that you like it better?

[BluesKeys]

I am not a fan of midrange. I think it muddies up the mix. The dynamic range of a piano being what it is I want something that comes close to the same response.

 

Live I use a Roland KC500 (15" and horn) and a KC300(12"and horn) for stereo and full range effect. I was never really satisfied with the KC500 until I got the KC300. I even use the KC300 with a JBL EON 10" for smaller gigs and it works nice.

[Mode_Fan]

OK I think I may be a bit odd in doing this but, it sure sounds damn good.

 

I bring a full PA system just for me, and set it up inside the main PA. I have 2 powered Wharfedale LA15Ps and 2 LA15PBsubs, that I just run off a small Alesis mixer.

 

I DJ as well so I already have multiple PA's and feel I might as well get the use out of them for the Keys as well.

 

I dont use any Studio monitors at home in my so called "Home studio", I just run everything through the 2 - 15" mains, 2-15" subs, and 2 12" for monitors, my room is only 12' x 12', am I psycho?

 

I havent owned a keyboard amp since, about 1993,

oh well, I LOVE it . lol I dont care.

[BluesKeys]

Mode_Fan, your not odd. You will find many in the forum use a PA as stage monitors. Some with powered speakers EON's, Mackie's etc. And some that use power amps or powered mixers.

 

I say to each his own, though I don't think I would bring a sub along unless I was covering bass parts. I am getting old and already carry too much crap.