Winter Namm

[part1sts]

When does this event begin? And have new products already been announced?

[zxcvbnm098]

This years NAMM is January 19-22. I haven't heard any concrete/offical news about what's being announced...

[Andre Lower]

Well, let's cross our fingers for at least a couple of meaningful releases. Considering the cost and opportunity associated with a show like that, it does not make sense to join in with nothing new to show.

 

And if there will be some case of less-than-fundamental change on display, I have my fingers crossed for a texturized black keys version of any of the big three Workstations. Just in case You know, what if their R&D depts. actually do read our posts here ?

[Synthguy]

I have to say that if Kurzweil doesn't make some racket, I'm going to be very sad. Well... for a few minutes anyway.

 

PLEASE come back to life!

[RABid]

It seems that most companies announce at the show rather than before. Then you will see a lot of posts around the net about what is announced. Winter NAMM seems to be the one that most keyboards are announced.

 

Robert

[Sven Golly]

Originally posted by part1sts:

When does this event begin?

As always, Google is your friend .

 

In answer to your second question, most manufacturers build up suspense until NAMM, at which point they unveil their new offerings. That's mostly the point of the show, in fact.

 

Sometimes rumours 'slip out' ... pre-show speculation abounds ... and the lowing of the sheep becomes almost unbearable (right, Gas? ).

 

Cheers,

SG

[part1sts]

google is instant... I like the suprise factor when posting here. If you dont want to answer my question dont, but you have already reccomended google quite a few times already. Thank you.

[Sven Golly]

Originally posted by part1sts:

google is instant... I like the suprise factor when posting here. If you dont want to answer my question dont, but you have already reccomended google quite a few times already. Thank you.

[clusterchord]

as for upcoming NAMM products..

 

Nord Lead 4, with already fantastic UI coming from NL3, adding onboard multi-fx licenced from Eventide, and featuring real analog multimode filters (from Andromeda ASIC technology) has been announced last night..

 

 

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.. in my dreams

[Synthguy]

Don't do that to me, you blasted Neptoonian!

[part1sts]

Yamaha should make a stage piano with the pianos, eps, organs, and symphonic sounds of the s90es.

[Tonysounds]

They did...it's called the S90es.

 

[clusterchord]

Originally posted by Sir Basil:

Don't do that to me, you blasted Neptoonian!

got ya going for a sec there, didn't i ?

 

 

unfortunately, the Alesis analog chips project will most likely die with Andromeda. they aint making offspring products with this technology (which is extremely STUPEEEED), and they dont wanna licence it to someone else either.

[Tusker]

I'd love to see Alesis finding a way to make analog doodads with those chips, like an analog air-synth/theremin. Or a simple monosynth. (Just provide detune facilities for the extra oscillators. )

 

The filter chips would be fun and useful in stompbox or filterbank form.

 

I'm assuming the chips are really no good without good software control. The developing of new/improved software control may be too expensive for them or for anyone, compared with the cost of pure dsp.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if someone bought the chip capability from them though ...

 

... Alesis could become the Curtis of the new millenium. Shame really.

 

Jerry

[niacin]

Would you mind dreaming a decent keybed for it this time. Thanks.

[Andre Lower]

I know it's OT, but the same old questions were floating in my mind while I was reading this thread since the first one of Clusterchord's contributions:

 

1) will real analog prices ever decrease?

2) will VA technology ever reproduce 100% the goodies of RA technology? If so, how long will it take?

 

Probable answer: Let's live on and wait to see...

[zeronyne]

Originally posted by Andre Lower:

1) will real analog prices ever decrease?

Unless there is a fundamental (and catostrophic, IMO) change in the economies of scale paradigm, I think analog synths will always be much higher priced than a digital synth of similar capabilities.

 

Originally posted by Andre Lower:

2) will VA technology ever reproduce 100% the goodies of RA technology? If so, how long will it take?

I doubt it, but we may reach a point of mass acceptability, sort of the way CDs have become analogous with high quality audio. Could they sound better? Of course. Does it matter? For the present, probably not.

 

It would be great, if just from a pure "advance the artform" perspective, if the Big 3, Kurzweil, Tascam, Stanford U and MIT got together and did a serious piano model. Not all this reverse engineering stuff, but get down to the nitty gritty...model resonant properties of wood and lacquer and iron and the human sitting at the keyboard, etc etc. We are suffering from the same effect as CG graphics are right now. The closer we get to modeling the real thing, the more our minds pick out the flaws. It's counterintuitive in some ways, but sometimes, a Micropiano is more playable than some Giga monster.

 

Two great questions from Mr Lower!

[Andre Lower]

I suppose everybody realizes that there is also a catch 22 situation involving the eventual "nailing" of the RA qualities by some future VA technology: It would invite the manufacturers to include VAs in the palette of their standard fully digital synths, thus killing the market for the plethora of RA synths/modules we all seem to "need" today to afford us the palette we want in the first place...

 

The Alesis Fusion seems to be the first brave and serious attempt at such a synth. But then again the Ion/Micron VA does not hold a candle to the Minimax and other current high-end VAs. Alesis seems to be playing its cards right at trying this "integration" first at the low-cost end of the spectrum, to assess the market appeal of such a beast (even adding PM, FM, etc.). With all due respect for the eventual qualities of the Fusion, I'd love to see one of the big 3 striking a deal with Creamware and adding something like the Scope platform to one of their workstations...ah, these lovely integration dreams ...

[Tusker]

There is no doubt in my mind that VA is already 99.99% there. What's mostly missing is better modelling of saturation stages of tube and discrete preamps as well as filter saturation.

 

Not to brag, but on a Nord Modular, I have a simple 3 oscillator synth with overdrive before a 48 db/octave filter. You might think that steep a filter would sound very mellow. But by creating phase shifts pre and post filter (oscillator detuning and parallel paths through filters) it is extremely alive and rich although it also has that tightness and forwardness we associated with discret analog. I wouldn't say it nails that analog sound, but it nails the alive qualities we associate with analog richness. It's great up to a couple of octaves above middle C. At that point, the dsp tricks start to overload the oscillator/waveshaping models and you get aliasing. With a simpler model you can run an octave or two higher. And you can crossfade between them to get more range. But the audible range of the base model is within the range of most musical leads, in that range it does a 100% of what I would want. And I consider myself a minimoog lover.

 

I'd love to see more emphasis on modelled and analog techniques in NAMM. It's too early to declare victory with VA. But the future is so bright ... I'm excited. I would still like to see Alesis build more analog stuff, especially with that "Oberheim" filter. There is room for lots of colors and flavors. And there is no denying that with a well made analog the sound is just there, needing no tricks.

 

Jerry

[resigned]

Actually I was surprised to see two new keyboard announcements in November, two months before NAMM. Yamaha announced their new MO 6/8's and Korg announced their new TR workstation keyboards in November.

[ClaviaMech]

In answer to your second question, most manufacturers build up suspense until NAMM, at which point they unveil their new offerings. That's mostly the point of the show, in fact.

Among the good reasons why mfrs don't announce before the show ...

 

1. The product they're announcing may not be completely ready for market. The Peavey Wolfgang guitar was demo'd by EVHalen himself at a winter NAMM show several years ago. He kept changing the design and the first production models didn't ship until nearly 2 years later. Sometimes it's best to wait until a product is near-completion or in its first production run to tell the world about it. Peavey lost a lot of sales, and loyal customers, in that 2-year period.

 

2. There's a lot of press at the show - our friends at Keyboard among them - and it dumps a big bucket of cold water on mfr announcements if the mags have decided someone else's gear is sexier before the show even opens. "Oh, gee ... nice metronome. Well, I gotta go camp out in front of the Roland hall now, and shamelessly shmooze for the first onholy-child-of-a-V-Synth-&-HAL-9000 review."

 

The NAMM reports are usually fair, but the mfrs are always looking for: "And then we saw the Nord Lead 4 with Eventide effects and real analog filters! We pulled a Kermit right there on the show floor! Unbelievable!!!" (Just a joke ... NL4, that is ... t'ain't happ'nin ...)

[Sven Golly]

Originally posted by ClaviaMech:

Among the good reasons why mfrs don't announce before the show ...

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that it should be otherwise... just as with the Detroit Car Show in the auto sector, COMDEX in I.T., etc.... trade shows are there so that product announcements can be made to a somewhat captive target audience, who are focused on discovering exactly that: what's new.

 

The rumour 'leaks' are just there to build anticipation (check out the pre-NAMM Oasys thread... everybody and their dog wanted whatever the hell it was in the leaked images that someone 'discovered'... it was only when the price was disclosed at (or shortly after) NAMM that the sheep scattered... ...but that's a whole other thread. ).

 

Cheers,

SG

[part1sts]

Originally posted by tonysounds:

They did...it's called the S90es.

 

Without all the other sounds. For about half the price. For people who dont need to act like they are playing a guitar, or bagpipe... Just the simple sounds, but a lot of the pianos, ep's organs and strings because their stage pianos do not have many sounds. Just a thought.

[ClaviaMech]

The rumour 'leaks' are just there to build anticipation ...

Tell me about it. When I sold keyboards in retail my Roland rep would torture me with new-product hints a month before every show. I almost tackled him when he showed me a photo of the V-Synth ... for about 2 whole seconds.

 

The first day at the NAMM show I blew off a couple of appointments, ran straight for the Roland booth, and spent two hours on a V-Synth (they usually have several new 'boards on display with headphones at NAMM). I looked up to find my rep laughing at my stunned expression while I played.

 

Then I saw the price, and thought "great synth; too bad no one in Mississippi will buy one from me ..."

 

I don't listen when all those old guitar and band-horn codgers grumble about another frakking NAMM show ... it's really fun when you're into technology.

[eric]

So when is the Electro 3 with real drawbars coming? Or at least a fully compatible add-on drawbar controller?

 

Regards,

Eric

[mildbill]

i don't think manufacturers should announce products until the bugs are worked out and they're ready to ship.

[Clavinovaguyusa]

I would not be surprised to see Roland announce that sales of their G70 are failing at the home piano outlets and that they are reopening sales to web and band equipment suppliers. They are supposed to launch a special SRX card for the G70 at NAMM.

[Clavinovaguyusa]

Let me rephrase failing.....not necessarily failing. But, sales of the unit are not pushed heavily when there is a $40K-100K grand in the corner that they would rather sell.

[Markyboard]

Originally posted by mildbill:

i don't think manufacturers should announce products until the bugs are worked out and they're ready to ship.

I think manufacturers should announce a product as soon as the conceptual design phase starts. They should post preliminary drawings and specs. At some point they should release a design review package along with action item forms for us to add critiques and inputs. After all... we're the CUSTOMER damn it.

[Felix_dup1]

Markyboard, wouldn't that be way too many cooks in the kitchen? We can't seem to come to concensus on even one thread - imagine what it would be like for a manufacturer to ask for feedback from the public at the point of conceptual design phase... yikes!