Changing sounds live

[chrisfp99]

Guys, who plays live? On what? How do you get easy access to the sounds you want? Buttons on the keyboard? Footswitch? Seems to me the modern Triton, Fantom, Motifs etc. are not well designed for live playing. Or am I missing something?

[Tonysounds]

I use two different rigs live, the "simple" rig is a Motif 8 and either an Electro or Hammond XK3 for organ. The Motif is fine as a live instrument; you arrange your sounds in the user banks, or "favorites". I've done it both ways, but much prefer the User Banks method.

 

My "not so simple rig" is a Doepfer LMK4+ midi controller (with my Electro used as a remote keyboard controller only, no sounds) controlling a Motif ES rack, FantomXR, and Muse Receptor hosting B4, Mtron, MiniMonsta, Pro-53, Oddity, CS80v.

 

Before putting together the Doepfer/Receptor rig, I was using my FantomX7 with my Motif and Electro, and found live it was ok as long as I grouped sounds together. Sometimes there was a lot of overlap, but it still worked using the inc/dec button.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

The music I play live is very spontaneous and improvisational, so I need access to any of my sound pretty quickly, and can't really program any specific order ahead of time. On my Ion, I have my main 12 sounds across 3 numbers and 4 colors, so I can get to anything in 3 button presses at most. For example, to get from blue 3 to yellow 1, I press - twice and yellow once. On my PC-88, I use the 16 front panel buttons to select sounds that are all grouped together in one bank from my Motif ES rack. So I have 28 sounds at my finger tips, and it's pretty much all I need for what I currently do.

[Trill]

I use a motif rack, I store all my sounds in a user bank. When I want to change ,I hit one of the keyboards voice selection buttons which controls the rack with the midi interface. So if I push Piano 2 on the keyboard ,it would bring up the organ sound from the rack, Piano 3 would be horns and so forth. So one button is all it takes, and it is immediete.

I'm sure you could do the same with the boards you named. And Welcome to KC

 

Greg

[Nils Salthe Helberg]

I use as I mentioned in another post. A Korg triton LE with 61 keys for pads and a little bit of organ sounds and a Novation KS5 for more pads and the more noicy and strange stuff.

 

On the combi section on the triton i make new programs about like this.

 

first. A001 then B001 then C001.

 

then its easy to switch quickly. And when I play live i use to have a sound ready on the program mode so that i can switch a little between.

 

When playing in a worship-band you need to be prepared if plans in the set are beeing changed. The worsip leader can find out that he shall do another song. Then it is important to be ready. Be focused. Know where you have a sound thats proper for the situations.

[Roger Hooper]

I play live. and have both re-arranged the sounds in various keyboard ram banks, and have used them where they are, relying on my memory (boy, that's like working without a net!) RIght now I take only 2 boards, out of S80, EX5, VL7, Supernova II, or Z1. The Supernova is nice in that a "Favourites" bank allows the arrangement of performances and programs.

[Tusker]

If you are doing established setlists, you could do patch and performance/combi increments.

 

I used to play in a worship band where anything could be called out. So I split the keyboard on my Roland rompler, and build Performance/Combi templates. The Rolands allow you to select up to 8 patches at a time with a single button press. With my split keys I'd have 4 possibilities on the LHS of the keyboard and 4 on the right. So if we were in (roughly) "R&B" mode, I would have say a B3, a pad, a comp instrument and string for the left, and say horn stabs, synth stabs, a funky clav and piano for the right. That would be one template. I would have different templates for different moods and for different styles (basically acoustic versus electronic plus some variations).

 

Since each button press toggles a sound on and off, I could play a line with two layered timbres, than stab with 3 timbres, then isolate a single timbre, etc. When we switched songs changed I would change to the appropriate performance template. I learned this trick from one of the guys on the Roland list, and it enabled me to do a lot with very little, for which I'm grateful.

 

My other synth would be in monotimbral mode, and I'd have a basic sound on it like a piano or B3. It served as a fallback and as textural glue.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Jerry

[DanL]

I use master mode on my S90ES and have all my patches arranged in the masters. I use a cheat sheet for now until I have the memory locations in my own memory I arranged it so bank A is acoustic type pianos on 1-8, and 9-16 are pipe organy sounds and a couple of song specific layers I need (like a fat poly synth from the S90 and a piano from the Electro, where I mix th sounds in and out as needed during the song). Bank B1-8 is EP's- both Electro controlled by the S90, and internal S90 sounds, 9-16 is lead synth sounds. Bank C is strings/pads. Bank D is a couple horn sounds I need, and some comping/percussive funk synth stuff.

[Hammodel AV]

Anyone use a Behringer FCB1010 or equivalent to switch their rigs? I am working on a more complex synth rig at church, consisting of a Roland XP-10, a M-Audio 61es connected to a EMU B-3 with Protozoa ROM added, and a CME UF8 connected to a Kawai K1R. I am looking for suggestions, like Chris, of how to efficiently switch patches.

 

Thanks. Brian.

 

P.S. the remainder of the church setup is a 1936 Hammond AV with Leslie 45 (with KEI two speed adapter) and a Wurlitzer 200A electric piano. Still need that Moog Modular behind it all!

[Bill H.]

I use the 16 drum pads on my Fantom S61 to make program changes. You can set it up so one tap will take you anywhere you want to go in the machine.

[burningbusch]

Yamaha has some nice features for live players. I use the above mentioned Master mode to control internal sounds and all of my other keyboards, which are connected to it via MIDI. Also, to my knowledge, Yamaha is the only synth maker that allows you to search for patches without switching to them. So you can be playing with one hand while searching through the menu system for the next sound. With all other manufacturers, the sound switches when you scroll or page through the menus.

 

The Roland RD700SX, similar to the Yamahas, provides a sophisticated method for controlling external synths so it can be the centerpiece of your rig--call up a patch and all your synths change patches accordingly. In addition, the RD700SX has four banks of ten buttons which can quickly be assigned to SETUPS. So at the beginning of the night I look at the set list and in a few minutes I have the entire night programmed with one touch access. As long as you don't exceed 10 songs/set, four sets it works great.

 

Busch.

[drumadima]

Originally posted by burningbusch:

Yamaha has some nice features for live players. I use the above mentioned Master mode to control internal sounds and all of my other keyboards, which are connected to it via MIDI. Also, to my knowledge, Yamaha is the only synth maker that allows you to search for patches without switching to them. So you can be playing with one hand while searching through the menu system for the next sound. With all other manufacturers, the sound switches when you scroll or page through the menus.

 

The Roland RD700SX, similar to the Yamahas, provides a sophisticated method for controlling external synths so it can be the centerpiece of your rig--call up a patch and all your synths change patches accordingly. In addition, the RD700SX has four banks of ten buttons which can quickly be assigned to SETUPS. So at the beginning of the night I look at the set list and in a few minutes I have the entire night programmed with one touch access. As long as you don't exceed 10 songs/set, four sets it works great.

 

Busch.

you could do that easily on triton extreme (i guess on classic too)...you play with one hand and scroll through the pages with you left hand on the touchscreen..very nice indeed! once you select a sound on a page,the sound changes,until then the sound remains the same.

[burningbusch]

I don't know the Extreme but I did own the Classic at one time. I thought that as soon as you went to the next page it changed the sound. You could very well be right.

 

Thanks.

 

Busch.

[coyote]

I run patch changes for my entire rig from a Kurzweil ExpressionMate. For mid-song changes I have certain buttons on the ExpMate programmed. And if I want to change the texture of a sound during improvisation it's almost always on the Hammond or the JP8000 where I have realtime control.

[MidLifeCrisis]

I use 3 boards to minimize my having to change on the fly.

I have my Roland F30 on which I use only 3 patches for my piano sounds (one button toggles them). I have my VK-8 for organ on which I only switch drawbars and overdrive. The rest of my sounds come from my QS in which I have my favorite patches stored in 2 user banks. I know exactly where to be at all times and I can easily get to where I need to go next.

[Phil Aiken]

My Current rig.....

Yamaha P250

Hammond XK-3

Muse Receptor.

I switch sounds mainly by using the performance presets on the P250.

 

The Hammond literally sits on top of the Yamaha.

This leaves the bottom row of performance buttons

accessible. I have these presets transmitting on different midi channels to control different sounds on the Receptor. One preset is local only.

I have one preset reserved for trasmitting only to the Hammond for the lower manual, so that I can have dual manual organ. The Hammond is always playable directly, so at any given point I might have the P250 + the Hammond active, something on the Receptor + the Hammond active, or dual manual Hammond.

If I need more presets in the future I can get at the upper row of buttons or use the variations. I

also have a midi solutions event processor that can be put to use to remap midi channels.

 

For my small rig I stick a Voce V5 on the piano instead of the Hammond, and use it to control the drawbars of B4 on the Receptor.

[mate stubb]

When I was carrying a modular synth and a nonprogrammable poly synth on the road, I had to reprogram and or repatch between each number.

 

I scoff at these so-called "hard to use" modern user interfaces.

 

I also had to walk uphill both ways in the snow to the gig, carrying my synths on my back, barefoot. And we liked it!

 

Old coot

[Mr. Nightime]

In normal circumstances, I'll use a 3 board setup, so I can change quickly. I've had them so long that its easy for me.

My bottom board is a Korg SP200 digital piano. Nothin' fancy there, just a one button change to piano, clav, Rhodes, Strings (I don't care too much for the other sounds, because I have better out of the other 2). To my right where space allows, otherwise on the top tier is an old Korg N364. I've had it so long that I know where everything is so I can get there with a minimum of fuss. Above the piano is a Hammond XB2. With one exception, I'll change the sounds on that using the drawbars. Since the N364 is either hard to access to my right, or very high up, I'll use the Hammond as a controller for the N364. In some instances, I'll use the organ, and then add unison horns by turning on and off the local switch. There are a couple where I need to have sounds ready on all three, and switch boards.

Way back when I had my old XB2 (it was stolen) and my M1, I had the presets on the Hammond set up for patch changes. That worked out fairly well at the time. With my current rig, I havn'e had the need for this.

[ksounds]

I use two keyboards and two racks live. My top keyboard is a K2500 which is exclusively a controller for everything else. Its zone mute buttons and 8 control sliders change sounds much more elegantly than the Triton below. I wish the K2500 had more than one independent MIDI OUT, but by assigning the Triton, Motif-Rack ES, and V3 to respond to different MIDI channels, MIDI THRU provides an acceptable solution.

 

Currently, I use the K2500's sliders as organ drawbars, leaving a control pedal to handle pad volumes. I dedicate an additional control pedal to controlling organ volume and a footswitch for rotary speaker speed (MS Pro-145). For some performances, I use the breath controller input on the K2500 (with a BC3A) to control the Motif-Rack ES.

 

I've also used a Roland A-70 with great success in a similar rig. Like the K2500, the A-70 has a proper implementation of zone mute buttons, allowing seamless transitions between sounds.

[musicbysterling]

I'm using a Roland RD-700SX as my controller. MIDI out 1 is connected to a Yamaha Motif Rack and MIDI out 2 is connected to a Nord Electro. The RD-700SX has Vintage Keys and Brass Ensemble expansion boards installed. The Electros audio outputs are routed to a Lexicon MPX500 and then into a Speakeasy Stereo Dyno preamp.

[musicbysterling]

I'm using a Roland RD-700SX as my controller. MIDI out 1 is connected to a Yamaha Motif Rack and MIDI out 2 is connected to a Nord Electro. The RD-700SX has Vintage Keys and Brass Ensemble expansion boards installed. The Electros audio outputs are routed to a Lexicon MPX500 and then into a Speakeasy Stereo Dyno preamp.

[musicbysterling]

I'm using a Roland RD-700SX as my controller. MIDI out 1 is connected to a Yamaha Motif Rack and MIDI out 2 is connected to a Nord Electro. The RD-700SX has Vintage Keys and Brass Ensemble expansion boards installed. The Electros audio outputs are routed to a Lexicon MPX500 and then into a Speakeasy Stereo Dyno preamp.

[musicbysterling]

Sorry for the triple posting of my unfinished post! D'OH!!!

 

Anyway, the RD-700SX has pretty flexible MIDI control which allows me to assign MIDI routings, zones and layers as well as assigning program changes and CCs. I change my setups by pressing a combinaion of two buttons on the RD-700SX. Pretty brainless in a live situation. I'm probably going to start implementing the MIDI out of the Nord Electro and route it into the RD's MIDI in and begin to use it as an occasional controller as well. That's means digging into into the very convoluted Roland manual again:(

[burningbusch]

Hey musicbysterling,

 

I'm in the Seattle area too and currently run a very similar setup.

 

RD700SX (with Vintage Keys)

MIDI #1 Out goes to a Yamaha Vl1m and then to a Fantom XR (loaded).

MIDI #2 goes to an Electro 61.

 

Here's one of the groups I play with.

 

Midnite Walk

 

Maybe see you around.

 

Busch.