HomeAmateur Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 just curious,... if anyone may have any inside info on when Yamaha plans to release a "NEW" workstation.... it seems the Motif has "ruled" for some time now... and sales must be starting to drop a bit.... Im hoping they dont just "re-package" it AGAIN and make a few small changes and call it the "ESSS" or something.... I currenty own the 700sx and am very happy with it... ive decided though that i "think" i like the idea of the onboard sequencer though... and i definatly would like to have the soundset of the MotifES... At the time I bought the 700sx I didnt think I wanted a workstation....and I was NOT impessed with the ES8 piano anyhow... so... im just patiently waiting to see what Yamaha comes out with next for a workstation... I would think that with all the interest (to put it somewhat mildly) in the 700sx's piano...that Yamaha will have to come out with a show-stoping piano sample to win back the "best piano" title that their used to having... One of the many things that pisses me off though is that you all know if they do come out with an awsome piano,..that they may NOT put it in the workstation.... which just makes me think "HUH ??? what the heck are they thinking" but.... if they give there next workstation a 700sx equilivent or better piano,.. a better action, an improved soundset over there already awsome sounds and maybe some pads like the Famtom X ,...ohhh and a MUCH MORE USER FRIENDLY INTERFACE...... ...then i just might have to sell the 700SX and go back to being a Yamaha fan as usuall... on a somewhat similiar note ...watching this forum it seems that the interest in the 700sx seems to be increasing slowly but surely.. so Yamaha WHEN WHEN WHEN ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resigned Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 dble post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resigned Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I suspect a change coming due to the recent release of the Tyros 2 arranger, which features some new technical innovations including MegaBrass and a Super Articulation keyboard. It's probably an indication of what's next for the Motif ES. You can find out more here. I agree that the Roland RD-700SX is getting a lot of talk these days. In the Synth Zone arranger forum, the Yamaha Tyros 2 is currently dominating the posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAmateur Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 i listened to the tyros 2 sound samples...and at first impression.. they doooooo seem to be a step or two up the quality later from the Motif ES8....and the ES8 is up there pretty good to start with.... although i didnt see a piano sample... hmmmmm which like you said... might be whats to come in the next work station... cool.... cant wait to see it....... when its "born"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pentafunkaphonic Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Wish list: 256 MB ROM or more, 256 note polyphony Arturia models of CS80, ARP2600, Minimoog and Moog modular FM already integrated (no plg cards) 16 track HD recorder too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamer Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Originally posted by pentafunkaphonic: Wish list: 256 MB ROM or more, 256 note polyphony Arturia models of CS80, ARP2600, Minimoog and Moog modular FM already integrated (no plg cards) 16 track HD recorder too much? Well, the Tyros 2 already has 300 Mb of ROM, so... Korg PA3X Pro 76 and Kronos 61, Roland G-70, Integra 7 and BK7-m, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, 1965 Gibson SG Standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keynote Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Originally posted by Dreamer: Well, the Tyros 2 already has 300 Mb of ROM, so... Come on Andrea, that is just speculation. Yamaha has not stated the WAV ROM amount on their U.S. web site [Here] or any of their international web sites. Until Yamaha decides to give a specific amount and post it for the world to see, I for one would not post subjective info on this or any other site. It has only been rumored that the amount is 300Mb. For some strange reason Yamaha has not seen fit to post that valuable bit of information on any of their sites or in their Tyros2 User Manual, which makes me a little suspicious as to the reason why. They gave the amount for the original Tyros, why won't they do the same for the Tyros2? Could it be that by not providing the amount that they obviously don't want people to know? And if it is just a few Megabytes above the Tyros' 96MB then possibly it would hurt sales from existing Tyros owners who are considering upgrading to the Tyros2?? - "What you don't know can't hurt you" they may be contemplating to themselves. http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//deal.gif And what if, God forbid, the Tyros2 actually has "LESS" WAV ROM than its Big Brother the Tyros? Theoretically it is possible. Too bad we can't find out for certain either way since Yamaha left out that very important piece of info on their Specification list of the Tyros2 or the User Manual. I think Yamaha needs to fess up about the WAV ROM amount. Don't leave us in the dark concerning that most important piece of info. We are men, we can take it. Just let us know, will ya'? If it has less WAV ROM or just a 'tiny' bit more than the Tyros, I still think your customers and potential customers have the right to know. If it has 300Mb as has been rumored then all the better. But let us know one way or the other so we can make an informed and judicious decision for ourselves. At least for those anyway who consider the WAV ROM amount to be an important part of a purchasing decision, which I tend to believe is a considerable amount of people btw. Which obviously you don't Andrea since you already purchased a T2 without knowing the actual specifics of the WAV ROM amount. Again - it has only been "rumored" that the Tyros2 has 300Mb of WAV ROM. Until Yammie puts it in 'writing' I have no way of knowing for sure the exact amount. Unless, of course, if perhaps Yoshi Doi, president of Yamaha Corporation of America, or some other high ranking executive at Yammie Central tells me in person I can then be 'reasonably' certain it is correct. If it is in writing though then I have legal recourse if the stated amount is 'incorrect'. Word of mouth isn't neccesarily a reliable or trusted method of conveying matters of technical, or for that matter, any other type of information. PUT IT IN WRITING! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 While all these little "motifs" and "phrases" are okay in the MOTIF ES I don't think they represent a big change from the Classic. I think Yamaha like little steps these years... those arranger keyboards fulfill a purpose no doubt (Yamaha would sell a ton of them if they bundled them with a keyboard tie) , but they do sound very corny... What would be cool would be a synth that had a lot of different synth engines on board like the old EX5 does... the MOTIF can do this (althoguh there is no FDSP synth board) with the plug in boards but who hasd time to program their own sounds that use all the engines together? I think the EX5 (and maybe even the VL series) was the last synth Yamaha made that really said something.. also its user base is incredible (www.ex5tech.com) with lots of free sounds.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keynote Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Originally posted by orangefunk: those arranger keyboards fulfill a purpose no doubt (Yamaha would sell a ton of them if they bundled them with a keyboard tie) , but they do sound very corny... Orangefunk where have you been? Today's high end Arrangers can stand their own with the best Synth Workstations out there. For instance; here is an example of the new Super Articulated Tenor Sax voice from the just released Yamaha Tyros2: SAV Tenor Sax Tell me if that's not one of the best sounding Sax sounds you've heard on any currently available keyboard today, Workstation OR Arranger. In fact Roland's new G70 is touted in Keyboard Mags latest edition [November] as a "Music Workstation". Not even a mention that it is an Arranger keyboard. Which it is btw. Which goes to show you how the perception is changing in how they are perceived by not only the Companies that make them but also how people in general are re-examining their opinions of them. I think the line is blurring more and more in regards to what an Arranger and Workstation means and really is. The differences are there but the distinction between the two is diminishing in my estimation. More and more features are popping up on Arrangers that are on traditional Workstations such as Samplers, Dual Sequencers, XLR inputs and outputs, Hard Disks, and even Hard Disk streaming, not to mention cutting edge sounds not even found on todays current Workstations like the new SAV sound technology on Yamaha's new Tyros2, which of course IS an Arranger also. And then again some of the features on Arrangers are popping up on Workstations like Mega Voice technology on the Motif ES series that was taken from the Tyros. And also the Arpeggiator on the Motif ES which now recognizes and follows chord changes, which is a form of accompaniment that is a mainstay on Arrangers and where Arrangers are much more advanced. You've probably played or heard the low end models and I admit they do sound like toys to my ears also. But you need to check out the Big Three's latest high end offerings and most notably the new Yamaha Tyros2 to really get an idea of what an Arranger can do and also how good they can sound. PS: Btw, the breath sound from the Sax demo is an actual sound from the keyboard itself and can be controlled and varied by a foot controller. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamer Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Mike, you like to talk, don't you? You have the rare ability to use a thousand words to say what could be said in ten or -even worse- without saying anything at all. At least, before starting one of your tirades, try to document yourself. (Click here for more details). Anyway, please, go on: I love to see someone hanging himself with his own rope! Korg PA3X Pro 76 and Kronos 61, Roland G-70, Integra 7 and BK7-m, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, 1965 Gibson SG Standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I agree with the Pro. I would be suprised if Yamaha doesn't announce a replacement in 2 1/2 months...(Winter NAMM). All the pieces are in place: 1. The end of the two year lifecycle most Yamaha gear follows 2. Slipping sales (according to Music & Sound Retailer) 3. Complaints about the Motif's interface from the last century 4. Recent upgrade of the Tyros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LithoJazzoSphere Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Tell me if that's not one of the best sounding Sax sounds you've heard on any currently available keyboard today,I wasn't impressed. There were only a handful of moments where I thought it sounded real - all the rest sounded fake. I think saxophone may be "the" hardest instrument for a keyboard to mimic. It doesn't help that I'm a saxophone player myself either, I guess. A picture may paint a thousand words, but a melody can paint a thousand pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDragonSoun Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Well I heard from this guy who knows this other musician who is in a band and his wife told the sister of a friend who knows the guy at seven eleven whose brother is married to the sister of a sales rep of a music store and this sales rep's manager spoke ato guy at Yamaha who said a new workstation may be coming out at winter namm. Since he called at night though he may have only talked to the custodian. Begin the day with a friendly voice A companion, unobtrusive - Rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAmateur Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 thanks Dragon..... sounds like a solid tip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keynote Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Originally posted by Dreamer: At least, before starting one of your tirades, try to document yourself. (Click here for more details). Anyway, please, go on: I love to see someone hanging himself with his own rope! I have documented myself Andrea. If you notice on the link that you posted the person saying the Tyros2 has 300Mb is NOT a Yamaha staffer nor is that obscure keyboard review site a Yamaha moderated site. And if you've read the Synthzone post where George Kaye, who you are very familiar with, say: "I'm sorry but I won't be able to give you the size of the wave rom. Yamaha is keeping this information to themselves for the time being. Because of their ability to compress their samples as most companys do and do it with such great results, they say the size in actual numbers, may not be understood by most and therefore this figure will not be given out. Needless to say, their sample library is quite good!" - then you should/must realize that the 300Mb figure is not a documented fact. As I have said Yamaha has NOT posted that piece of information anywhere themselves on ANY of their web sites and until they do or until a well known and well respected Professional Keyboard review site like Keyboard Magazine who works hand in hand with all the various Keyboard Companies and the KC Forum which is part of Keyboard Magazine and is moderated by the likes of Mike Martin who IS a Yamaha staffer and who wouldn't post such information unless they get it from Yamaha directly, then that 300Mb figure you mentioned is wishy washy at best. No more he said/she said please. Let me hear it from the horses mouth i.e. Yamaha Corp. directly. Until then it is just speculation. You may be misleading people Andrea when you post information as truth when that information is not a 'documented' fact. I hope you don't do that with the patients you treat in your practice. Btw, I hope it does have the 300Mb of WAV ROM that some people are tossing around as fact. But we may never know for sure until if or when Yamaha decides to open up and give us the skinny on the WAV ROM amount. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Fortner Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 ... the KC Forum which is part of Keyboard Magazine and is moderated by the likes of Mike Martin who IS a Yamaha staffer... If you're being tounge-in-cheek, then never mind, but Mike Martin is not the moderator of this forum. He's a friend of mine, but I wouldn't even say I'm "the likes of" him. He has way more hair, for one thing. Stephen Fortner Principal, Fortner Media Former Editor in Chief, Keyboard Magazine Digital Piano Consultant, Piano Buyer Magazine Industry affiliations: Antares, Arturia, Giles Communications, MS Media, Polyverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Originally posted by keynote: Originally posted by orangefunk: those arranger keyboards fulfill a purpose no doubt (Yamaha would sell a ton of them if they bundled them with a keyboard tie) , but they do sound very corny... Orangefunk where have you been? Today's high end Arrangers can stand their own with the best Synth Workstations out there. Well, excuse me, but I have been very well aware of technology and where its at. The Tyros range may very well float your boat and others too, but they don't really sound like brass and saxes, just as the Yamaha MOTIF ES doesn't either... I have a MOTIF ES and the only realistic brass and sax stuff comes from the VL board in it.. The mega voice and articulations are amusing at first but very gimmicky. The ES is several steps back from something like the EX (I have an EX5)range of 1999 in terms of synthesis and expression I find, hence my response. The Yamaha VL7 is a different story of course.. just wonderful. ALso another great keyboard is Rolands VSynth... that represents the only keyboard of the last 5 years to really add anything new. Maybe Yamaha have something in mind to compete, but then its all too easy to just extend the Motif range... if its successful why change I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamer Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Link to a topic of the Yamahapkowner Forum where Steve Marsden, who is a Yamaha Customer support technician, writes that the Tyros 2 ROM is over 300 Mb, 16 bit linear. Mike, please, go on: the rope is getting tighter... Korg PA3X Pro 76 and Kronos 61, Roland G-70, Integra 7 and BK7-m, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, 1965 Gibson SG Standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keynote Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Originally posted by Stephen Fortner: ... the KC Forum which is part of Keyboard Magazine and is moderated by the likes of Mike Martin who IS a Yamaha staffer... If you're being tounge-in-cheek, then never mind, but Mike Martin is not the moderator of this forum. He's a friend of mine, but I wouldn't even say I'm "the likes of" him. He has way more hair, for one thing. Hi Stephen. No I didn't mean Mike Martin was the Moderator with a capitol M but that he did preside over this Forum as a mouthpiece if you will of Yamaha Music Division's Synth department as one of their representatives. He is now the Marketing Manager for the Digital Piano department if I'm not mistaken. PS: The reason I say he "was" a 'moderator' (spokesperson) of Yamaha was that of late I haven't heard much from him on this Forum. I guess he's still settling in in his new place over in Chicago or simply doesn't have the time to post here much anymore. Either that or he's still so elated over the Chicago White Sox winning the World Series he maybe forgot about us over here at KC as a result. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keynote Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Originally posted by Dreamer: Link to a topic of the Yamahapkowner Forum where Steve Marsden, who is a Yamaha Customer support technician, writes that the Tyros 2 ROM is over 300 Mb, 16 bit linear. Mike, please, go on: the rope is getting tighter... Why is that information then not on Yamaha's web sites under the specification list? Or even in the Tyros2 user manuals? Most likely the reason Yamaha hasn't done that is because 300Mb at 16 bit linear would be a lot less if compressed, which we have recently found out the WAV ROM on the Tyros2 HAS been compressed , therefore if Yamaha posted the 300Mb at 16 bit linear it would not represent the true compressed amount which would be around half that or possibly less depending on their compression techniques. OTOH if Yamaha posted the 'compressed' amount at 300Mb for the Tyros2's then we would indeed have a true figure for the WAV ROM i.e. 300Mb. The original Tyros is 96Mb of WAV ROM but that is the compressed amount I am assuming since Yamaha has not stated anything different on their web site(s). So that means the Tyros2's over 300Mb at 16bit linear as Steve Marsden stated is closer to 160Mb compressed or thereabouts. Which is nothing to shake a stick at mind you. But depending on their compression techniques the WAV ROM on the Tyros2 could actually be even less than the 160Mb or so figure. And until Yamaha decides to post the 'compressed' "true realistic amount" we still won't know for sure what that 'real world' amount really is unfortunately. We can only guess. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamer Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Mike, you almost wrote a novel and I still don't get your point. I will try to help you: why is it so important that Yamaha makes an official statement about the Tyros 2 ROM? Are you maybe trying to tell us that you are not even going to consider purchasing a keyboard until you know exactly how much ROM you get in return for your financial investment? (...see? Your writing style is starting to affect me as well! ) Korg PA3X Pro 76 and Kronos 61, Roland G-70, Integra 7 and BK7-m, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, 1965 Gibson SG Standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resigned Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Looks like we have our answer (getting back to the original topic)... Yamaha has just announced it's newest synth: The Yamaha Mo. Yes, it's a new line of "Motif-lite" synths in 61 and 88 note versions. And their wave ROM is listed as 175 MB (before anyone starts bitchin' about it). I guess for Yamaha, less is Mo! Yuk, yuk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LithoJazzoSphere Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Ack, no ribbon? A picture may paint a thousand words, but a melody can paint a thousand pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAmateur Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 man,..... this is Yamaha's "NEW" workstation...????? at first glance all it seems to be is a stripped down MotifEs or am I missing something ????? which is basically what I thought the S90ES already was ..... at quick comparison it seems its the MotifES with LESS sounds and NO sampling and LESS polophony....and NO NEW AWESOME PIANO !!! am I reading this right ??? am I missing something here or what the heck is Yamaha thinking ?????? actually now that I think of it, it seems its an S90 ESSS (more then an S90ES but not quite a Motif ES) .... if thats the case all the people that just bought the S90ES might get a little ticked off.... especially if the price tag is only a bit more..... If this is the case I would have to assume that the price tag is MUCH lower then the Motif... is there something else to be revealed ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4 Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 yes- its probably longer and heavier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davinwv Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Originally posted by homeAmature: actually now that I think of it, it seems its an S90 ESSS (more then an S90ES but not quite a Motif ES) .... if thats the case all the people that just bought the S90ES might get a little ticked off.... especially if the price tag is only a bit more..... I do not think that the MO8 has the new S700 piano sample from the S90ES, nor does it have half-pedaling capabilities and the accompanying piano effects. Yamaha should have just put the new piano and piano effects in the MO8 and forgotten about the S90ES altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 The MO6 and MO8 are just stripped down versions of the Motif ES instruments. Their prices are significantly cheaper (~$1200 for MO6 & ~$1500 for MO8). It is a direct competitor for the Fantom XA. On paper, the MO8 looks pretty darn cool. I've been thinking of upgrading my S90 to the S90ES, but the change in size and need for a new case kills me. Looks like the MO8 is the same dimensions as the S90 (and lighter), so it could be a good update to move from S90 to MO8 to get the additional sounds, knob controllers, sequencing. The wall wart annoys me. Also, it looks like the MO8 may not have aftertouch. That could be a deal-breaker. But if I could get a MO8 for less than $1500 and use my existing S90 case, that would save me about $1k over the additional cost of the S90ES plus new road case. I might actually like the addition of knobs more than aftertouch. Like another person mentioned, I would have been happier to see the MO8 be slightly more robust and forget about the S90ES. An interesting move by Yamaha, nonetheless! Alas, the silver color is not my first choice. But I guess it go well with my red Electro! Regards, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAmateur Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 SEE.... this (what davinwv pointed out)(and thanks davinwv, finally Im not the only black sheep in here to see and be frustrated by this) is EXACTLY what Im always bitching about .... as far as these companies "holding back" and how these boards can be "much better" for the money were paying... and yet there are some in this forum that are seemingly always trying to "defend" these companies... and make it seem that "Im" the freak... I cant wait to see if anyone tries to "justify" this move by Yamaha.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrennan Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 It would seem that Yamaha is setting themselves up for the introduction of a new flagship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAmateur Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 also... I would have to guess that sales of the S90ES will pretty much drop to nothing... lets see how cheap they get... I mean heck,.. Ill take one if there giving them away... ... I just want to make sure I am clear though... its not that Im saying the "new" MO8 is a bad thing... in fact its probably a very decent machine.... im mainly just saying (again) WHY would they leave out there BETTER PIANO in a Board that seems to have the same technology as the board that there bettter piano is in...... and Hello, its a board specificaly made amd marketed to create music on..... I guess Yamaha thinks we PREFER to make music with LOWER quality piano samples come on people I CANT BE THE ONLY ONE THAT FEELS THIS WAY ?????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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