Do you have to play on everything?

[MIDIdiot]

Originally posted by cloud321:

 

Two keys in a rock setting is kind of overkill.( Some of you even feel that one is too much )

 

 

Now where is that cowbell patch button on the P90...

Reminds of an experience some 22 years ago with a group on an original tune the bass player "wrote" His idea for the keys was one sustained note on strings throughout the tune. I pressed the key and flicked on the "hold" button then walked away.

[Tusker]

I thought I would make a distinction ...

 

One can overplay and yet sit out certain songs. One could play tastefully and still play on every song, depending on how the set list relates to the band's lineup.

 

Jerry

[Mr. Nightime]

In my normal gig, Classic Rock, I play on every tune. That's not to say I play on every note. there are times when it sound better to lay out for a section.

When I'm playing at a jam, however, is a bit different. Sometimes I'll lay out for a bit during a slow blues, just to get that minimalist, raw feeling. Some songs I'll go get a beer. Like Clapton's Crossroads. I don't think it's possible to play a keyboard comp on that some without it sounding lame, so I don't even try. Let the rest of the band have their fun, I'll sit back and listen.

 

Listening to the other players is vital, and I have a hard time playing with those that don't. On night at a jam, there happened to be me and another keyboardist. OK, should be fun. It was, until the other guy started patch hunting. I'd play a piano part, and the next thing I knew, he had switched from an organ patch to piano, walking all over me. If I was playing organ, he'd go there. Strings, there he went. The guy had no original ideas of his own. I was loud enough so I knew he could hear me, if he had only listened.

 

In another situation with multiple keyboards, before each song we'd decide who would be on what and stay there. Much more pleasant.

[Billdar]

I play in a band with two guitar players, so there are times during some songs when I don't play. But I do play something on every song, and that includes songs like ZZ Top's "La Grange" (B3), CCR's "Green River" (piano) and "Born on the Bayou" (B3). Both of the guitar players are really strong, and excellent musicians, but they leave plenty of room for the keys, and the keys are always "there" in the mix. As we've matured as a band, I can see that we've really paid attention to playing in a complementary way. And it works both ways. We play "Light my Fire", a real keyboard song, and after the organ solo, for about three quarters of the guitar solo which follows, I don't play at all. This changes the "color" of the song, and I think makes it more interesting.

[DafDuc]

My gospel church gig involved a pianist, plus me on Hammond kicking bass. Also a drummer, guitarist, and a 20-25 voice choir.

 

It woulda been great, except that the guitarist (a) had this guitar synth and (b) couldn't buy a clue. He was always walking on bass lines, or using his organ patch. Or making stupid random noises cos he was bored. The pianist and I were usually ready to kill him by halfway through the mass.

 

But the pianist and I rarely had any trouble - when we did, it was usually chord chemistry stuff. Man, I miss her - the new gig is just me on piano, plus a choir.

 

Daf

[DanL]

Yeah, I should have clarified, playing on every tune doesn't meant playing every note on every tune. What Real MC says is true but a seasoned musician should be a tasteful one. You can play a background/comp part under another guys solo and make him sound better. I always said it takes you 10 years to learn what to play and 10 to learn what not to play.

[Mr. Nightime]

I got one of the best compliments ever a few years back. I jammed with a classic rock band, and afterward they told me that they sounded better with me there than they did without me. I was approaching it like DanL says, listen, lay out when appropriate, and support the other players.

It was actually a lot of fun because we played some of the old moldies the way they were originally done. You have no idea how fun it can be to play Proud Mary like CCR instead of every bastardization under the sun.

[sudeep]

LOL...some of these posts reminds of that miles davis/coltrane story where coltrane just kept playing on and on in a solo...and after the set he apologised to miles saying something like, sorry man when i get into the groove and i just can stop, im in the zone and i dont know what comes over me and how to stop.

 

And miles just turned and looked at him and said "well try taking the motherf**king thing out of your mouth!!!"

[fisheye]

I don't like trumpet players who fill in after every line of melody in a ballad.

[Analogaddict]

Me neither! Just because you can fill you don't have to. I think there should be a fine on "over-filling"! It's as if a form of horror vacuii totally overpowers all taste in some players, and every moment of silence makes them play panicky fills that totally take away from the song and any upcoming solo...

[DanL]

The worst is the wannabe blues harp player who feels he has to wail away the entire song, over all lyrics and other solos, and has no idea that another instrument might want to solo as well.

 

The one time I ever smacked someone at a gig, this so called harp guy sat in for a tune. After the set he was begging to come up again and we said no (because he sucked). So next set, he sets himself up right off the stage to my right, blowing his harp the entire time. We're playing another blues, I'm in the middle of a solo, he decides thats when he should make a dive for my mic. So I backhand him with my forearm, right across the jaw and neck, and sent him flying into a pile of cases off stage. It was hilarious afterwards, but a little tense when it happened. For weeks the regulars would joke about not getting near Dan when he's playing, he'll knock you down, and hey Dan, kick any harp players asses lately?

[coyote]

I don't play keys on every song - only on the songs that require keys.

 

On other songs I will play guitar or harmonica or percussion or do backing vox or whatever the song requires - or lay out entirely if not needed.

 

It pays to be versatile.

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by DanL:

The worst is the wannabe blues harp player who feels he has to wail away the entire song, over all lyrics and other solos, and has no idea that another instrument might want to solo as well.

 

The one time I ever smacked someone at a gig, this so called harp guy sat in for a tune. After the set he was begging to come up again and we said no (because he sucked). So next set, he sets himself up right off the stage to my right, blowing his harp the entire time. We're playing another blues, I'm in the middle of a solo, he decides thats when he should make a dive for my mic. So I backhand him with my forearm, right across the jaw and neck, and sent him flying into a pile of cases off stage. It was hilarious afterwards, but a little tense when it happened. For weeks the regulars would joke about not getting near Dan when he's playing, he'll knock you down, and hey Dan, kick any harp players asses lately?

THAT IS TOO FUNNY!!!

 

Do we know the same people, Dan?

 

2nd worst has to be the ignorant tamborine player who just doen't know how to count. Oh yes, ONE and THREE are in his vocabulary... BUT NOT TWO AND FOUR!!

 

These people should be taken out back and be forced to stand in one spot & drink flat beer until they pee all over themselves... oar something.

[Tom Fiala]

While I do play on the majority of songs - I don't play continuously throughout each and every song. There are many songs where I'll just double the rhythm guitar part with a distorted EP or organ at low volumes, just to add some "fatness" to the band's sound. Other times, I'll just kick in at certain sections of the song to help build the overall band dynamics.

 

There was a quote from Rick Wakeman on this topic, something to the effect of "When you don't play on everything, people notice you more when you do play". Good advice.

[MIDIdiot]

I like the consensus. Definitely, often, *less is more*.

 

So, this poses an obvious issue on stage. What to do. Please don't say tambourine, cowbell, backing vox. And let's assume we don't play a 2nd instrument. Walk off the stage? Stand with arms folded? Dance with the singer?

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Originally posted by InTheDark:

I like the consensus. Definitely, often, *less is more*.

 

So, this poses an obvious issue on stage. What to do. Please don't say tambourine, cowbell, backing vox. And let's assume we don't play a 2nd instrument. Walk off the stage? Stand with arms folded? Dance with the singer?

I find filing my nails works well. Reading Keyboard Magazine is pretty good, too.

 

[Mr. Nightime]

A friend of mine (a harp player that knows when NOT to play) gave me a copy of the Harmonica Ettiquette. I wish I still had it, because it was priceless.

Some of the main features were things like NEVER EVER play from offstage. This is absolutely the rudest thing you can possibly do, and is an insult to the band you are hoping to sit in with.

When the time comes for you to play your solo, jam out. After you're done, SHUT UP!

 

A trumpet player was mentioned. Well, there's one in every town. At the jams I attend there is a trumpeter that comes in. The sweetest guy you'ld ever want to meet, and a decent player. Unfortunately, he doesn't know how to shut up. We'll play "Behind Blue Eyes" by the Who, and he will play throughout, stepping on everybody's toes. That's a place where he should go get a beer or something.

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by InTheDark:

So, this poses an obvious issue on stage. What to do.

Seriously.

 

1. Consider grouping songs that have no keyboard parts. During this part of the show, leave the stage.

 

2. If you're only playing on part of the song, sit (or stand) and pay attention to what the other musicians are playing. Do not fiddle with cables or make faces at the women in the audience.

 

3. If it's just one song that you're not playing on, then it's your call. If you don't want to pick up sticks or a tamborine or a cowbell, try something innocuous like a rhythm egg. Or simply walk off the stage so as not to detract from the other musicians.

 

That's my advice. No charge.

[coyote]

Yeah, that works.

 

Personally if I'm not included in the music for an extended time (a minute or more) I leave the stage. No point in standing around.

 

I do however make a point of returning well prior to my next part. Therefore I don't go wandering around; I stay in the wings.

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

Originally posted by InTheDark:

So, this poses an obvious issue on stage. What to do.

Seriously.

 

1. Consider grouping songs that have no keyboard parts. During this part of the show, leave the stage.

 

2. If you're only playing on part of the song, sit (or stand) and pay attention to what the other musicians are playing. Do not fiddle with cables or make faces at the women in the audience.

 

3. If it's just one song that you're not playing on, then it's your call. If you don't want to pick up sticks or a tamborine or a cowbell, try something innocuous like a rhythm egg. Or simply walk off the stage so as not to detract from the other musicians.

 

That's my advice. No charge.

[DanL]

We have a local trumpet player who always wanted to sit in- side note- I find it especially rude when a guy shows up with his instrument- be it a trumpet, or a box of harps, or whatever, without being asked. I make it a point to deny those guys any jam time, lol. This trumpet player wanted to play the Allman's tune "Liz Reed" with us! He was adamant that he knew it. Our bass player flat out told him "it ain't gonna happen". This is one of those guys who fills all over the place too. Nice guy, not a bad player, but has a lot to learn- not every song is a trumpet song.

[Mr. Nightime]

When we're at a gig, my regular band has a strict, no sit-ins policy. The only exception are people that at one time or another had actually been a member of the band. Eliminates any potential for hurt feelings.

 

I used to play a gig where the drummer had an extended solo. Since there was no point sticking around, the entire rest of the band got off the stage and went for a beer. Gives us a break, and focuses the audience attention on the drummer. The drummer would play this one signiture riff a little before he was done, so we all had time to get back on stage and saddle up.

[DanL]

We have a real short list of who can sit in, because of the problems we had in the past with the harpers and horns and even guitar players where it seemed like a revolving door of guests. We have 1-2 guitar players who are long time friends of the band who we let play, and both of them sing so they sorta get a spotlight for a tune or 2. There is 1 harp player, and he's a long time resident of the music scene and is a great front man. 1 sax player who rarely comes out, and a fiddle player who comes down from Boston and will sit in the entire night. This guy is awesome and it's a pleasure sharing the stage with him- you know when he takes a solo it's going to be on the same level as the rest. Of course, (aside from the fiddle player who makes a special trip to play with us) not all of these guys come out all the time or if they do, even expect to play. Thats the difference, guys who beg you to sit in, and guys you can ask because you have confidence in them.

[Joe P]

DanL,

Your mention of Liz Reed and the trumpet player was funny to me because we had the opposite happen. There was a trumpet player in the audience who had his instrument, we know him and like him and he's a good player, friend of our guitarist. We wanted him to play on Liz Reed but he refused, even though he knows the tune.

Regards,

Joe

[ITGITC]

Somebody give me a big ol' break.

 

Everybody knows there is no trumpet part on

 

In Memory of Elizabeth Reed.

 

But if you play the record backwards, you can hear the chant: Paul is Dead. Paul is Dead.

[Joe P]

Tom,

 

Not sure I get the gist of your post, but even though there is no trumpet part on Liz Reed we thought it would sound cool and be fun. Something a little different, you know?

 

Regards,

Joe

[DafDuc]

It'd be fun to work up a Buddy Rich - style version of Liz...

[sean8877]

I hate sitting out so I'll play over anything that's called out. It may not add anything to the overall sound but I feel akward leaving the stage in the middle of a set. It's usually the heavier stuff that doesn't seem to need keys(Hendrix, Aerosmith, some Zeppelin), but you can usually play the riff using a real dirty Hammond sound.

[niacin]

Jon Lord does a fair bit of just doubling the guitarists riff with simple Hammond voicings to fatten the sound up. It's the sort of thing that you notice when it's not there. Good ploy.

[Tone Taster]

I tell ya, as a guitarist, stuff where "there's not supposed to be any keyboards" is either

• a shallow generalization made by non-keyboardists or
  
• a lack of adventure / fear of getting chewed out by the keyboardist
  

 

Or Both

 

I play on guitar forsaken gospel/funk tunes "where there's not supposed to be any guitar" and am challenged to come up with parts which do not override, yet provide a refreshing texture.

 

I saw that some keyboardists sit out on guitar driven tunes like Van Halen, but I have heard some KILLER samples of distorted guitar/power chords on a Motif and i think that synth doubling the Bassline or providing a rhythm guitar texture would be pretty cool

 

Take a step, guys. Piss off that Primadonna guitar Svengali !