Do you have to play on everything?

[MIDIdiot]

This question would be more for players in a rock type group. I know this question would be better put to guitarists but seriously, do you guys play on absolutely every song? Usually on songs that aren't really kb oriented, I might just comp out some piano but maybe it's better sometimes to just sit a tune out or go get a drink. Do you always always find something to play on every tune?

 

Dark

[Phred]

My band does a bunch of tunes that don't have keys in the originals. What I do depends on the tune.

 

You really Got Me (Van Halen) - I sit out on Keys - sing BG vocs

Riverboat fantasy - Sit out

Midnight Special - Play organ comps

Born on the Bayou - Swampy Organ mostly sustain stuff.

[Joe P]

I play on every tune now, but we used to do a Hendrix medley of Fire and Manic Depression. I would sit out on those. We do STP Interstate Love Song and Plush and I play Hammond on those, even though I don't think it's there on the recordings.

Regards,

Joe

[ITGITC]

Sometimes it's not what you play but what you don't play.

 

In the band I'm in with three guys playing acoustic guitar and singing, there are quite a few times that, for one reason or another, either keys are not called for or they simply want to play the song with guitar and vox only. Simple is often better. Plus, I have a small bladder and don't want to miss a chance to make room for more beer.

 

Does that answer your question Mr. InDaDark, or is it more information than you really wanted to know?

 

 

http://www.funinprague.com/img/photos/beer-walk.jpg

[MIDIdiot]

Originally posted by Phred:

You really Got Me (Van Halen) - I sit out on Keys - sing BG vocs

A good example because actually the original Kinks version may tempt one to bang out the simple double octaves on piano. Boring. A more disciplined player might best just sit the tune out.

 

ANother example, my band does a really hot beatles medley where I usually try to do some nice piano fills and runs. But why go crazy racking my brain trying to have something smart to say all over the place. Perhaps it's time I relax a bit, go check out how the band sounds from the back of the room etc.

 

 

Dark

[MIDIdiot]

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

Sometimes it's not what you play but what you don't play.

 

In the band I'm in with three guys playing acoustic guitar and singing, there are quite a few times that, for one reason or another, either keys are not called for or they simply want to play the song with guitar and vox only. Simple is often better. Plus, I have a small bladder and don't want to miss a chance to make room for more beer.

 

Does that answer your question Mr. InDaDark, or is it more information than you really wanted to know?

 

 

Glad you agree. I used to worry about the stage appeal of myself walking off during a tune and so would always feel obligated to play "something". But now that I'm getting less self-centered and wiser, I'm realizing no one will care anyway. It's not like I'm Stevie W walking off in the middle of a number.

 

Dark

[mate stubb]

Just call "Rockytop" and see how fast I leave the stage!

[Dave Horne]

Sometimes it's not what you play but what you don't play.

The problem I encounter, I play less to change the overall sound in a group and the bass player and drummer take that as a cue to play more.

 

I like to just have the singer and bass player take a chorus while I relax. It can sometimes be difficult to have musicians play less.

 

As I'm writing this I am reminded of a drummer I once played with in a jam session. I stopped playing to see if he would notice. He did not.

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by mate_stubb:

Just call "Rockytop" and see how fast I leave the stage!

HA!!

 

I had to play that song five shows a day, six days a week when I played at CAROWINDS theme park in Charlotte, NC. Those were the days. Once the last show of the day was over, we would ride the roller coasters... backwards.

 

Oh the perks of playing at a theme park while in college.

 

Tom

[Jack Kent]

Maybe it's sad to say, but one of my greatest strengths at the keyboards is knowing when to play just a little or not at all as the tune calls for. Ouch, perhaps, but it makes me a better player. so to speak.

[Byrdman]

Is ok to sit out but if you are on stage, look like you are involved, even if just listening closely. I believe if you are going to leave the stage, it shouldn't look like you just sodded off.

 

I remember Jethro Tull leaving the stage in the middle of a song while the drummer took a solo (the song was "Thick as a Brick" of course, which went an hour plus in the live version) coming back what seemed like ten minutes later.

[MidLifeCrisis]

Great thread!

I have pondered over this many times.

Sometimes when I choose not to play in a song I feel guilty that I have not met the musical challenge posted in front of me.

I usually try my best to fit something into a song. I have managed to fit some nice gnarly distorted Hammond sounds into some metal like tunes.

After stretching myself on some others, like some Beatles tunes, I have come up with some great parts which actually add to the song rather than act as a fill.

Still on some tunes, Train Kept a Rolling, etc, I pick up the guitar and play some mad distorted chords.

Glad to know I am not the only one who has turmoil over this.

[marino]

Good thread. Some of my experiences:

 

Once, a rather famour guitarist came to play in a festival, and hired the group I was playing in as his backup band. Great, I thought. We were supposed to play at that festival anyway.

He sent us a CD with the pieces we were supposed to learn, and there was no keyboard at all in any of the tunes. I wrote the charts for everyone else anyway, then looked for a way to fit some unobtrusive keyboard playing... but then I decided that it was best to leave those tunes alone.

So at that festival, we did our regular set, then when the guest guitarist made his appearance, I just left the stage and let him play his four tunes with the group, the way he was accustomed to hear them.

 

As a jazz accompanist, I often leave big gaps in my comping, depending of course on 'who' I'm backing. Unless the soloist feels uncomfortable with that, I try not to underline every chord. I usually strive to create an overall 'sound', to maximize the soloist intentions.

 

Also, I like to create some variety in jazz arrangements, like not comping for an entire solo, or starting a tune with the saxophonist by himself, or stopping the drums under the piano solo... you get the idea.

 

In rock or pop, you generally reharse the arrangements beforehand, so you know in advance when and what you're supposed to play. In the group Indaco, the percussionist had a 10-minute solo spot, during which all the other musicians left the stage.

 

Also, I hate when I'm doing a solo, reaching some kind of climax and increasing note density and excitement, and the others start playing fast notes as well, covering my phrases. A good accompanist knows how to bring out the soloist's phrasing with just a few 'commenting' stabs or other little things.

[David Loving]

Good advice, all. Some tunes I do not play on at all. We do a santana tune where the b3 wails but there's no piano or rhodes, so I get to play congas. I'd lay out on all ZZtop stuff. We arrange some country ballads that have wide-open spaces if you will. One song I just use the "crypt" patch on a pc2 as a sound effect. You develop a feel for it, I think, to get the overall sound you want. Marino's advice on accompanying is very good. I like solo starts. We have a set planned where I get to start it playing solo boogie woogie tunes end to end for about 20 minutes before the guitar wanders up and chimes in. All that difference makes listening more fun for the crowd - and it's fun to play differently, too.

[Unsound Practices]

I'd say that 20% of the set list of the current band (covers) has me having a beer or a smoke. "Satisfaction" shouldn't have a keyboard part, for example . "Sultan's of Swing", "Basket Case", and "Can't Get Enough" have me reaching for a pint and the tobacco.

 

Some songs I do my own thing, and if the guys like it, I keep doing it. "Brown Sugar" has me doing second guitar with a crunchy Rhodes patch, for example, and it works well.

 

(FWIW on "You really got me" I'm covering the chorus with a B3 patch, and yes I do the eighth note plink-plink-plink on piano. The guys like it.)

 

Did I ever mention we do some overplayed covers?

[sudeep]

I generally feel if im on stage id prefer to be playing something...maybe that shows my inexperience. I did play a gig recently of original tunes written by a singer...where all she wanted was two notes on the piano...through the whole tune. I felt compelled to put more in!

 

for covers ill try and get live versions to see if the keyboardist is playing anything on those. ie. Sultans of Swing was mentioned...dont hear any keys on the orginal...but on the Alchemy cds you hear some nice organ patches.

[Tusker]

Sometimes I do, but we hardly ever do direct covers of guitar groups. So I generally find something to do in every song. It may not be very long, a pad for 8 measures in the bridge perhaps. Or doubling a bass riff with a distorted organ when we come back from the bridge. Or playing the same parts the horns are, to fill our their sound. But the role I play is to extend the textural range of the band, and that usually means playing something. In a different band it would be different.

 

Jerry

[MidLifeCrisis]

Originally posted by Unsound Practices:

"Can't Get Enough" have me reaching for a pint and the tobacco.

 

Some songs I do my own thing, and if the guys like it, I keep doing it. "Brown Sugar" has me doing second guitar with a crunchy Rhodes patch, for example, and it works well.

I play power chords during Cant Get Enough which seems to add some richness to the tune. Do you do the sax solo to Brown Sugar on keys? It's one of the better sax parts that seems to translate well to keys.

 

Sounds like we need a thread for keyboard parts for songs with no keyboard parts.

[ELP71]

I have played in a lot of bands that featured non-keyboard tunes. I always used to insist on creating a kb/synth part because the guitarists I played with were usually incredible egoists. In fact, I was with a band where the guitarist said (to my face) that "keyboards make a great background for my solos"...well, true, but how about taking the 'background' while I rip a solo to Iron Maiden's 'Run To The Hills' on minimoog...?

 

Anyway, adolescence aside, I try to be as tasteful as I can. Sometimes - like many of you - I 'hear' a keyboard comp/line in tunes when none exists; I think a tasteful Wurly can go a long way in many 'guitar' tunes at least in the pop realm.

 

As for 'You Really Got Me' (VH) - I used a Oberheim saw poly patch, slow filter sweep, little but of crunch. Sounded really cool. The guitar made a nice background...

[DanL]

Originally posted by mate_stubb:

Just call "Rockytop" and see how fast I leave the stage!

lol, we do Rockytop from time to time. I love playing it because the guitar player and I trade off leads at each other.

 

I can see if you are playing in a cover band that does the song exactly like the original, there are times you won't play. But if you are playing Hendrix, Kinks, Creedence, and old stuff like that, then play along! We do Green River sometimes, there are no keys on that, but I pull up a cheesey organ sound and everyone loves it. I play on every tune in our band. Half the time I've never heard the original version of the song so I just do what fits and sounds good to me. Even stuff with keys, like Little Feat, I don't do the key parts as written. The band just gets the groove of the song and goes from there. The guitar players have more breaks than I do, as we have a few songs where we break it down to keys/bass/drums and the 3 of us can get wild for a few minutes and then the guitar players come back on stage and join back in. Very free and loose and lots of improv.

[MIDIdiot]

Originally posted by MidLifeCrisis:

Originally posted by Unsound Practices:

"Can't Get Enough" have me reaching for a pint and the tobacco.

 

Some songs I do my own thing, and if the guys like it, I keep doing it. "Brown Sugar" has me doing second guitar with a crunchy Rhodes patch, for example, and it works well.

I play power chords during Cant Get Enough which seems to add some richness to the tune. Do you do the sax solo to Brown Sugar on keys? It's one of the better sax parts that seems to translate well to keys.

 

Sounds like we need a thread for keyboard parts for songs with no keyboard parts.

That's a whole other topic, what patches to use. For example, the sax riffs on Funky Yown,

I actually use a modified sax patch which has some guts, it sounds good. But I often wonder if instead

I should just do some organ blows there. However, I don't think organ lends itself too well in disco. Same question

for the 8 bar trumpet solo in "do the hustle". I'm using a trumpet patch but isn't that lame? Maybe a synth sound would be better.

The drawback there is that if I use the same synth sound in many tunes it will sound tired.

[niacin]

I just play percussion on a coupla tunes. Or slip off to the bar for a refill.

 

Actually I've often sat out for a verse or two in the first set at gigs where we have noone out front doing the sound so I can wander round the room and have a listen and tweak the mix.

[Joe P]

Daviel mentioned ZZ Top. We do La Grange and I just play the bass line on both organ manuals. Sounds really cool on the M3 even though it's a minimal contribution Then during the jam out at the end, the guitarist and I trade off licks and I get to blow over A. Comes off great.

Regards,

Joe

[BluesKeys]

Good thread, I remember trying to find parts to play on every song on my Rhodes years ago. Now I've grown up and just lobby the guitar tunes out of the set list so I can play every tune. LOL

 

I play all the tunes in one band and I sit out a few in the other. I used to sit out Sunshine of Your Love but I found a live version with Billy Preston comping with the snare and figure if it's good enough for him then it's good enough for me.

[DafDuc]

Originally posted by mate_stubb:

Just call "Rockytop" and see how fast I leave the stage!

That used to be huge fun to play fake pedal steel on - Prophet 5, stock B3 sound, turn off percussion, add liberal amounts of pitch bend... WHEEEE! Actually got me some session calls.

[DafDuc]

Clavinet is great for rhythm guitar parts. Just listened to an old tape of 4 sets from an 80's gig - ZZT's Legs was my busiest song of the night: LH fake clav on the Prophet, RH rhythm guitar part on the (real) clav, alternating with RH backbeat piano stab on the KX/TX. Through about 4 minutes of Gibbons-meets-EVH wanking .

[guestuserguestuser.com]

I *hate* playing with people that never lay out.

 

There oughta be a union bylaw: each player must lay out for a minimum of 32 bars per hour.

 

There's one musician (wind instrument) I play with sometimes, won't name him, he's a sweet and loveable guy and everything, but suffers from "can't lay out" syndrome. We did this casual little jazz-like gig recently. He played the melody on every tune. Finally, a tune got called that he couldn't remember. I said "I know that tune. How's about I take the melody on this one, for a change?". We all agreed I should. So, I played the melody. At the end of my melody, I passed it over to the wind player to take a solo. Guess what, the m**********r plays the melody, AGAIN.

 

Sent me quickly through the five stages of grief.

 

[The Real MC]

I grew up playing in orchestras and community bands. If you watch them carefully, you will notice a) nobody plays all the time and b) some players play nothing at all during a piece. Watch and listen to them carefully, you will learn something.

 

The key is to listen to what is going on around you.

 

Too many musicians in small combos succumb to temptation to overplay. I remember the 80s Miles Davis interview in Keyboard mag where he lamented pretty heavily on overplaying musicians. I run into too many inconsiderate guitar players who feel obligated to fill in every empty space, leaving no room for other musicians.

 

In my early days I played keyboard parts in songs where there were none and overplayed often, partly because I trying to find something that worked. What I learned is that Wurly and Clav serve far better as rhythm instruments than Rhodes and you don't have to have both hands going or have to play every beat in the bar or every bar in the song.

 

If all the musicians played throughout every song, there would be no variety. Often I'd lay out during the first verse and add my part later. That way the song has a progression and it sounds fresh throughout.

 

Listen to what is going on. If there is singing, don't play a part that interferes with the vocal. If you're playing behind a guitar solo, don't step on his toes. Play parts whose timbres do not collide with vocals/guitar solos. That means you can't use the standard 888000000 Hammond drawbar, push in the 5-1/3 drawbar or find a registration that works around the featured part.

 

Be creative. Try playing only one beat of the bar, don't just hold a steady chord. Try little fluctuations like flams on the notes. A synth FX on that polysynth. Pick up a tamborine and slam it. Stereo pads or string backgrounds. BE CREATIVE.

 

Of course mutual respect for your solos should be expected from the others. Bass solos should have nothing but drums behind them. Guitars should back way down or all the way behind a piano solo. Listen to Lynyrd Skynyrd - on almost every piano solo, that three guitar army stops playing.

 

If I get an offer to play in a band the first thing I will do is hear them play in a bar. If I find musicians with no respect for others, I'm not interested.

[Trill]

I play a mean cowbell

[cloud321]

Had an experience like that recently. I usually played mostly jazz combo setups, and tried out for a social band which turns out to be a rock band. They have a keyboard player already, and I figured uh-oh.

 

It turns out my suspicions are correct. Two keys in a rock setting is kind of overkill.( Some of you even feel that one is too much )

 

Since this is just a social thing, I don't feel like hauling my Triton ProX. So I'm stuck with my P90.

 

Now where is that cowbell patch button on the P90...