synth newbie needs general recommendation

[navboy]

Hello

 

Am a long-time musician (play lots of instruments) and band guy looking for something new or used in the $1200 ballpark that i can use for creating music and sound tracks for amateur and low-budget movies (would like ability to have convincing strings, brass, choir, etc...

 

Don't know much at all about MIDI or synth's, but since i plan to do my composing on the PC with Cubase for now, maybe ProTools later, what i've run into is that after deciding to go the route of a sampling synth rather than MIDI controller route, the few that have been recommened to me like Korg Triton series or newer Kurz's sound they've got the sampling, ribbon control, joystick, cd-rom, USB/Firewire output and great polyphonic capability that i want, but then they're laden with onboard sequencing and recording and song-production tools i simply don't need and they're so expensive i can't afford the redundancy.

 

Are there models out there dedicated to provided great sample libraries plus synthesizing capability and all but without the expensive sequencers and recording features?

 

Also, where is the best place for used - eBay, somewhere else, or is it best to stay away from used since i'm shooting for one good tool for now to get started recording with that needs to be the backbone of my non-guitar sound generation?

 

Thanks for any and all advice! I've been waiting years to get started and there's so much technology to get through first!

 

-steve

[DafDuc]

Yam S80 (used) - S90 might be a bit pricey. But the S80 should save enough money to add on the VL board and/or the piano board. There might be an orchestral one, too?

 

Kurz PC-1x - great sounds, right there in your price range.

 

And - have you considered going the controller / softsampler route? Some of your best soundsets are only available on the puter anymore...

 

Good luck.

 

Daf

[navboy]

Originally posted by DafDuc:

Yam S80 (used) - S90 might be a bit pricey. But the S80 should save enough money to add on the VL board and/or the piano board. There might be an orchestral one, too?

 

Kurz PC-1x - great sounds, right there in your price range.

 

And - have you considered going the controller / softsampler route? Some of your best soundsets are only available on the puter anymore...

 

Good luck.

 

Daf

thanks, will check those out ...

 

Actually, i talked myself into going the synth route because of my lack of familiarity with MIDI and my desire to also make some of my own samples, but only just barely. I don't really have enough knowledge to make that decision i guess. I do know i don't want to spend all my time on the technology rather than the music creation, and also i was under the impression one could always update the samples on the synth to better and better quality sounds via cd's or usb/firewire ...

 

maybe i need to be pointed to a web resource that clearly lays out the pros and cons of the two different routes, particularly for some wanting to create more along the lines of a wide range of music and sounds to accompany film, rather than for example dance songs, beats, and such ...

 

-steve

[midinut]

Check this site out. I just back into things after a long hiatus and needed to get up to speed on the new technology. This place rocks for explaining things so that a 6 year old can understand. Good luck and click on thed link below.

 

http://studio-central.com/phpbb/index.php?sid=f5caca09318560b24a9c7cbcbecbba84

 

From the description you gave above I would recommend the controller/software route. You will not be able to add new samples to a synth unless it has expansion options (new cards, ability to load sample CD's, etc.) There are synths that do that but they are up and out of the price range you mentioned. As Daf said, you'll have many more options with the PC/Controller route (and you can always wade in gently ... little bit at a time) and we're here to help should you need it. Good luck!

 

- Brad

[SilverDragonSoun]

From the description you gave above I would recommend the controller/software route.

 

I absolutely agree 100%. Check out the site below for different sound libaries and demos.

 

http://www.soundsonline.com

[navboy]

Thanks so much for the advice, both of you, and the links - i read several of the topic overviews at the forums site and saved the Sounds site for further reference. You posted those just as i had done more reading and perusing of forums and a trip to the music store and i think i have reversed course and am now leaning toward the controller.softsample approach. Now i'm confused about two other basic issues:

 

(i already have a PC with CuBase SX3 configured and recording from mic and mixer inputs, and a Roland RD-100 piano)

 

1. CONTROLLER: I went down to the local music store, and they really just had Roland and related equipment for MIDI stuff - they had some ROLAND-supported brand of MIDI control that started with an E for about $190 and spanned about 4 octaves of keys. The short range was bothering me until i realized i wouldn't need it in a given take for most scoring recording, and when i needed it for piano or organ, i suppose i could record with my RD-100, though not sure if i could use that as a MIDI controller for piano or would need to record with it instead as a sound source, meaning i'd lose the score printing ability in CuBase, unless there's a feature to convert sound to MIDI. Beyond that issue, what should i look for in a MIDI controller? Should i pay more for more octaves? Brands to avoid or seek out?

 

 

2. SEQUENCER: In most discussions about the softsample approach, they always say it depends on what sequencer i have. Well i scanned the docs for CuBase, and there was a page in the MIDI manual that talks about a MIDI sequencing component. If i have CuBase SX3, am i covered for any sequencing needs or am i going to have to buy yet another piece of software or hardware? Also, given that i'll be creating music that has wildly varying tempos, is using MIDI going to be a pain in the ass, or do i just record the way i want, go back and tweak it, and MIDI transparently handles any sort of tempo management it needs? Do i even need a sequencer for non-rigid music or do i always use a sequencer no matter the kind of music to make a MIDI setup work?

 

3. That guy that sold me on CuBase last year when i built my DAW mentioned Gigastudio at the time, but i put that decision off until now. Sounds like their are so many programs/libraries like that ... Any recommendations for a setup on PC of CuBase SX3 with Delta 1010 card/box for concentrating on film track scoring?

[RABid]

1, Since you already have a RD-100 with 88 key hammer action I would suggest a small synth action controller. The best feeling budget keyboard in my opinion is the Emu XBoard. There are other and maybe better choices, but the Emu board has a good feel and what you save here can be spent on a soundcard and instruments.

 

2. Yes, you are covered for sequencing. At some point you might compare Cubase to Sonar, Logic and ProTools but for now invest your money elsewhere.

 

3. Film scoring. Goos ROMpler. Good orchestra library. Good pads.

 

ROMpler StampleTank 2, EmulatorX, Halion 3, or Kontakt combined with a sample library.

 

Orchestra Library GPO or EWQL Symphonic Orchestra Silver is a good value.

 

Pads ABSynth, FM7, Atmosphere

 

Also consider picking up one quality synth such as VirSyn Tere 2. You can do a lot with Tera 2 alone.

 

Once you are rolling you can add things like a specialized drum VSTi, dedicated piano samples, organ, and others.

 

Robert

[navboy]

Fascinating; really appreciate it ... I will take a look at all of those ... One concept and one terminology issue i don't understand are in your response to #3:

 

Is GigaStudio then a ROMpler plus a library? Between the ROMplers you listed do you have a favorite?

 

Also what exactly are pads? Do you mean trigger pads of some sort that would give me a different means of playing samples other than the Emu XBoard? I also read that some models of controllers have built-in trigger pads ... Would this eliminate having to buy pads, or is there a reason to avoid controllers with pads and go with separate pads (if that's even what you are meaning by pads) ... ?

[midinut]

When he says pads, he's talking about "pad souds" such as atmospheric pads, or brass pads, or string pads, or motion pads (moving), etc. I think you're getting this confused with "physical" pads such as the ones on some keyboards or controllers that allow you to use the pads for triggering drum samples, sound effects, etc.

 

On another note, GigaStudio is the mother of all samplers but damn near requires a PC dedicated to just GigaStudio to get the most out of it. Not to mention the learning curve and getting it to work with sound cards nicely. The payoff may be worth it but be prepared to unleash a monster! Rabid suggested ROMplers such as IK Multimedia SampleTank 2 (I own this) and SR Sonik Synth 2 (ditto). Between those two they have most any musical instrument I could ever imagine covered. The only thing I'm lacking in right now is an orchestral library and I'm considering Philharmonik, GPO, and yes even GigaStudio to fill those needs. The ROMplers come close but a dedicated orchestra library just does a better job IMHO. Especially if you have an interest in scoring for orchestra or film.

 

Hope that clears up a thing or two!

[RABid]

Yes. Pad sounds. Chords played on synths using sustained sounds. The foundation for a lot of music in sound tracks.

 

Robert

[navboy]

Wow, this is confusing and cool at the same time. I really look forward to gettign started. I keep seeing those same ROMpler names mentioned here in the reading i'm doing in various forums and articles... If i pick one of them, am i locked into only being able to buy sound libraries from that same manufacturer?

 

Also, has anyone run CuBase SX3 and Gigastudio3 hassle-free with a P4 3.2GHz, 3.21 GHz FSB, 1 GB RAM, single Ultra ATA 160GB HDD, soundcard is Midiman Delta 1010 ... ? I will probably start a little simpler, but if i had assurances my current setup could handle the combination on the same PC i might consider investing my time and energy up front in learning how to use Gigastudio ...

[midinut]

Quoted directly from the FAQ at Tascam's Website:

 

What are the minimum system requirements to run GigaStudio 3 Orchestra?

 

The performance of this system depends largely on how full your startup drive is. The best way to increase the polyphony of this system would be an additional hard drive just for your samples:

 

Windows XP SP1

Pentium® 4 1.7GHz processor or AMD 2100 XP processor (SSE-compatible processors required for GigaPulse)

512MB RAM

DVD-ROM drive

1024 x 768 monitor resolution

100MB application hard drive space

MIDI interface

GSIF-compatible sound card or ReWire-compatible host application top

 

What are the recommended system requirements to run GigaStudio 3 Orchestra?

 

This system should get you 200+ voices of polyphony and several instances of GigaPulse (your mileage may vary due to several factors):

 

Windows XP SP1

Pentium® 4 2.8GHz processor or AMD 3200 XP processor (SSE-compatible processors required for GigaPulse)

1GB RAM

DVD-ROM drive

1024 x 768 monitor resolution

1GB application hard drive space

Dedicated sample drive with many free gigabytes or sample storage space; 7200 RPM with 8MB cache, 8.9ms seek time

MIDI interface

GSIF-compatible sound card or ReWire-compatible host application top

 

It looks like you may qualify for the grand prize!

 

I always recommend going with the recommended specs or better as opposed to the minimum specs.

 

Keep in mind thought that that is for running GigaStudio 3 Orchestra ONLY! If you factor in other resources hogs (such as Cubase and a bunch of other VST instruments that we're all certian you will want to buy), then your system is going to be taxed trying to do it all at the same time. Does this make sense?

 

That is precisely why most Giga people dedicate an entire computer just to use for GigaStudio. Do a little more research. Keep in mind we're all there with you. GigaStudio IS the "Holy Grail" that we all want to attain at some point. We are also in your shoes that most of us use the same PC for internet, word processing, gaming, etc. and can't afford another machine (or have trouble justifying it to the missus ... you know who you are)

 

We're also just suggesting that you learn to crawl before you walk. Just like the analogy, we don't want to see you falling down busting your ass before you're ready. If we give you a little puppy now I promise you it will grow into a Saint Bernard later! Good luck!

[RABid]

I run GigaStudio on a seperate computer. I never did upgrade to version 3. Instead I have been loading most of my GigaSamples into Kontakt or EmulatorX. And that is something to think about. You might consider a sampler that will load various formats. On the other hand, something like SampleTank 2 is much easier for someone new to computer music. With SampleTank you are limited to SampleTank libraries or Akai. It does import some Akai format libraries. There is also a lot of Konpakt player ROMplers. These are instruments like GPO, Morphology, etc that run on a specialized Kontakt player.

 

I only know of one true sampler for PC, EmulatorX. By true sampler I mean that it will record audio and let you create sample sets.

 

There are also specialized drum ROMplers like Battery and BFD. These come with very nice drum libraries. With Battery it is very easy to drag and drop samples to create your own patches. BFD is nice from a drummer's standpoint because Angus, the developer, is aware of the desire of some users to create patterns from electronic drum kits as opposed to step sequencing. It is nice to see efforts to make the product respond to a hi-hat controller.

 

If you need a little more confusion, let me know. I'm always happy to confuse.

 

Robert

[navboy]

Midinut - yep, that's my situation - i've got this real nice DAW put together, but don't really have the means to dedicate another PC right now. I do actually have an old Dell 1.5GHz P4 with 256MB RAM and 40GB HDD, but that's coming in right below the minimum recommendations for Gigastudio3 ... And, point well taken about one thing at a time ...

 

Rabid - Is EmulatorX an example of what you mean by a sampler that will load various formats? Of the ones mentioned in here frequently, what are others than can load various formats? Is Gigastudio NOT able to load various formats?

 

Also, i get what you mean by EmulatorX being a true sampler, but i figured that with CuBase SX3 i would have the sampling part taken care of? Or is the interface in something like EmulatorX better for making your own samples?

 

 

right now i'm stuck trying to choose a controller and a sampler ... feeling like i'm getting closer, but still lots of names and not a good understanding of how they compare ... That Emu XBoard looks pretty ideal for me, but i saw a picture somewhere of a controller with trigger pads on it as well as keys, which seems like a useful feature for certain things. What are peoples opinions regarding their usefulness and if they are generally considered a nice addition to keys on a controller, what would a controller be that is similar to Emu XBoard but that has trigger pads on it?