doug osborne Posted January 10, 2003 Posted January 10, 2003 http://www.latimes.com/business/la-011003sony_wr,0,3013336.story?coll=la%2Dhome%2Dheadlines Does anybody here think that putting a TV guy in charge of a record label is going from bad to worse? Does anybody think that the musical equivalent of a "Friends" or "Fear Factor" episode is worse than a Britney single? Doug Osborne Music on Bandcamp
Salyphus Posted January 10, 2003 Posted January 10, 2003 One Lackey to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them.
Gtoledo3 Posted January 10, 2003 Posted January 10, 2003 Wow. What is not going on in their heads? Want mix/tracking feedback? Checkout "The Fade"- www.grand-designs.cc/mmforum/index.php The soon-to-be home of the "12 Bar-Blues Project"
doug osborne Posted January 11, 2003 Author Posted January 11, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by GT3: [b]Wow. What is not going on in their heads?[/b][/quote]music/creativity Does Sony want to start or buy a network? Vertical convergence. Doug Osborne Music on Bandcamp
realtrance Posted January 11, 2003 Posted January 11, 2003 Being the "head" of a business unit these days is really just being an uber-salesman. No creative vision or anything like that involved, just gotta sell, sell, sell. And I'm sure anyone at the top of NBC has that credential to their credit. So it seems like a natural choice. rt
Alndln Posted January 11, 2003 Posted January 11, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Doug Osborne: [b] Does anybody here think that putting a TV guy in charge of a record label is going from bad to worse? [/b][/quote]I think with the roster(yech!) they have it wouldn't matter if they strapped a chimp in the head chair. [img]http://www.pri.kyoto-u.ac.jp/ai/birthphoto/after/aib111s.jpg[/img] "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows"
Curve Dominant Posted January 11, 2003 Posted January 11, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Doug Osborne: [b]Does anybody here think that putting a TV guy in charge of a record label is going from bad to worse?[/b][/quote]You never know. The guy might bring a fresh perspective to the business. The old-school "record guys" have been screwing things up...maybe Sony made a smart move by bringing an outsider to the game to shake things up. I'm not too optimistic, but I think we're at that point where any change is good change. It'll be interesting to see what happens. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com
Henchman Posted January 12, 2003 Posted January 12, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Curve Dominant: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Doug Osborne: [b]Does anybody here think that putting a TV guy in charge of a record label is going from bad to worse?[/b][/quote]You never know. The guy might bring a fresh perspective to the business. The old-school "record guys" have been screwing things up...maybe Sony made a smart move by bringing an outsider to the game to shake things up. I'm not too optimistic, but I think we're at that point where any change is good change. It'll be interesting to see what happens.[/b][/quote]Well, taking in account that current TV is worst that anything on the radio, I'm not holding my breath. IMDB Credit list President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion." President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."
Alndln Posted January 12, 2003 Posted January 12, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Curve Dominant: [b] The guy might bring a fresh perspective to the business. [/b][/quote]Like addmitting he knows nothing and staying out of the way. :D "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows"
offramp Posted January 12, 2003 Posted January 12, 2003 So...Sony music will be 'Lacking' something, then? I rarely disagree with the Curve, but while I think yes, someone with a fresh 'non-music-business' perspective might be good for Sony, bringing in an executive from a medium that has exponentially greater flaws than the music business just screams 'cash grab'. Say goodbye to Sony Records. I've upped my standards; now, up yours.
aliengroover Posted January 12, 2003 Posted January 12, 2003 I don't like this move a little bit, but I strongly agree with Curve. The way things are (and have always been), the likelyhood of them bringing someone in who really cares about the music (like, say a Clive Davis-type or some big wig producer) is zero to none. And to captain a ship like that, they wouldn't. They're going to get a businessman's businessman. By going to TV, you're pulling someone out of a medium that is all about putting out the product that best appeals to the largest portion of the public...and usually it's a half-decent product and then some (some of the highest rated shows are actually among the best, unlike music). And if the results aren't there, TV execs will quickly pull the plug. Not saying that's how you should run a record company, but Sony needs a shakeup more than anyone else. The other thing about the TV world is that they actually create mass interest in their product. People actually talk at length about and anticipate shows now like they used to anticipate the latest Big Name album release. Sure, we talk about music, but the general public is more interested in the visual mediums now (TV, movies, video games) with music as a side attraction. Bringing someone from that world in with his different viewpoint many only help. Peace If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking 'til you do suck seed!
Jedi Posted January 12, 2003 Posted January 12, 2003 i guess time will tell. But I come from the belief that bringing in outside Executives usually makes things worse. I think a person that's already a part of Sony and that really loves music would have been the best bet. BUT WTF do I know. And does a person that really loves music even work for Sony :D . I'm joking, just joking folks "All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence." The Buddha's Last Words R.I.P. RobT
Henchman Posted January 12, 2003 Posted January 12, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by aliengroover: [b] By going to TV, you're pulling someone out of a medium that is all about putting out the product that best appeals to the largest portion of the public...and usually it's a half-decent product and then some (some of the highest rated shows are actually among the best, unlike music). And if the results aren't there, TV execs will quickly pull the plug. Not saying that's how you should run a record company, but Sony needs a shakeup more than anyone else. [/b][/quote]Actually, some of the best shows on YV are not from Broadcasters like NBC and ABC. Some of the best are from the cable channels. Also, cutting something quickly is another major problem with TV these days. Alot of shows that went on to be some of the best shows in TV history got off to a very slow start. And if they would have been started in todays TV climate, they would have been dropped within a month. Sounds kinda like thge reordd biz. Don't build a fanbase, just go for the quick sale, that will last about a season. Then start all over again next year. I think to be able to turn a label around, you need to knwo HOW records should eb made. Why did'nt a red flag go up when MJ started getting into the tens of mmillions on his last record. Why do so many people get payed ridiculous amounts of money upfront? Producers that get paid $150k+ to produce a single song is asinine.Multimillion dollar video's and A&R folk flying first or business class. This is all nonsense. Salaries need to be cut way back. And the big money should be bonuses handed out at the end of the year, based on performance. The gravy train is over, and they need to adjust their business model. IMDB Credit list President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion." President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."
aliengroover Posted January 12, 2003 Posted January 12, 2003 I know what you're saying, Henchman. That's why my statement started with saying I don't like it a little bit. And yeah, the best shows are on Cable. Nonetheless, it is a shake up. And though it might not payoff in the short term, I think the final fate of the current business model will be decided over the next five years, not the next one or two that guys like this will be at the helm. Oh, and there's a reason the top tier producers get paid what they do, and this you know. With a million plus being poured into the making of the "next big thing", it is a pure, and more bankable, investment to pay the Neptunes or whomever $250K KNOWING that their involvement increases the chances of you recouping that and profiting..way moreso than rolling the dice on Joe Producer. These people don't get advances like that just because they're "good" (they're often no better than the next guy), they get it because of their recent track record AND the demand for their services. What's funny is, everyone complains about not getting paid well, but complain even more when someone finally does (not directed at you Hench, just a general statement). If any of us were in the same position, we'd likely do the same, 'cause the interest in you could die tomorrow. The videos are a HUGE marketing tool. The perks are unnecessary. Artist development needs to come back. A music fan should run the labels much the same as sports fans run most sport franchises. The most successful (and popular) songs of all time are mostly pretty darn good songs. Build it and they will come. Peace If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking 'til you do suck seed!
Henchman Posted January 12, 2003 Posted January 12, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by aliengroover: [b] Oh, and there's a reason the top tier producers get paid what they do, and this you know. With a million plus being poured into the making of the "next big thing", it is a pure, and more bankable, investment to pay the Neptunes or whomever $250K KNOWING that their involvement increases the chances of you recouping that and profiting..way moreso than rolling the dice on Joe Producer. [/b][/quote]BUT, these guys will make another small fortune from publishing as well as points on the CD. So, if everything they do IS a sure thing (which nothing is) i still see no reason to pay them ridiculous amounts of money upfront. People should get payed, but this is just ridiculous. IMDB Credit list President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion." President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."
aliengroover Posted January 13, 2003 Posted January 13, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Henchman: [b] BUT, these guys will make another small fortune from publishing as well as points on the CD. So, if everything they do IS a sure thing (which nothing is) i still see no reason to pay them ridiculous amounts of money upfront. People should get payed, but this is just ridiculous.[/b][/quote]Okay, lets put some real world numbers into this: In the R&B/Pop/HipHop/etc. world, there are VERY few albums that are produced by a single entity. Most have, say, 2 or 3 tracks at most by the same. So royalties won't be doled out with the same structure as a Mutt Lange production. That 4 points or whatever the Neptunes get will be divided up by the number of songs on the project. The album has 12 songs on it. They contribute three. Suggested retail is a generous $15.98 (for a figure). So their make per would be approximately $.159. If the project goes platinum they'll make, well, $159,000. Add in performance takes and still it's a far cry from the 600K+ they'd get otherwise. With the demand that guys like that have, they price accordingly. Without question, they don't always charge that price. But they do that as insurance for themselves. If they like the artist, then the situation changes, same with any producer. If it's just another ho-hum a record company throws their way...they gotta pay. That way, if it tanks like Ray-J's album (singer Brandy's brother) did...huge club hit, but about 17K in sales...their time wasn't "wasted". The problem I see with the industry in this regard is, as one of their (Neptunes) engineer said, the big budgets are going to the wrong acts. Cats with just synths and samplers are getting the opportunity to go into the very best rooms...rooms that are totally unnecessary for them. Most of these projects could be done for less than a fraction of what they cost. Meanwhile, the bands and acts that could benefit from it usually don't get that opportunity because the sales arent there. Not that you should cater to certain genres financially, but... The same way the new Virgin honchos ousted Mariah because they don't believe artists should be getting large advances, this guy may be the same. Then again, the biggest TV actors make quite a hefty penny, so who knows Peace If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking 'til you do suck seed!
Curve Dominant Posted January 13, 2003 Posted January 13, 2003 [quote]reposted from the New York Times: [b]From the time Mr. Lack started as NBC News president to the time he moved on to become NBC's president in May 2001, the division went from having an annual loss of nearly $25 million to making an estimated profit of nearly $300 million, by one executive's estimate.[/b][/quote]You can argue about anything but results. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com
Henchman Posted January 13, 2003 Posted January 13, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by aliengroover: [b] The album has 12 songs on it. They contribute three. Suggested retail is a generous $15.98 (for a figure). So their make per would be approximately $.159. If the project goes platinum they'll make, well, $159,000. Add in performance takes and still it's a far cry from the 600K+ they'd get otherwise. Then again, the biggest TV actors make quite a hefty penny, so who knows Peace[/b][/quote]Ok. But you're forgetting one small thing. The enormous amount of money they'll make from publishing. See, the problem is, that now an artist is coming out of the gate with a huge debtload to pay back. So this $150.000,k for a track, has tpo be payed by the artist from their roaylty. This is complete bull. And you can't compare actors to producers. Actors should be compared to the musician and artists. Can you imagine the mayhen that would break out, if an actor wouldn't get paid untill the movie or TV show recouped. This is th eproblem. Everybody in music us getting paid waaaay too much upfront. EXCEPT the artist. If labels started paying producers a fair normal fee upfront, but the majority would be from the tail-end (points etc.), then i think you would start to see better product. Same goes for execs at labels. Enough with thsese retarded salaries. Perform, and you get a nice big bonus. Let Michael Jackson blow 20 million on a record that doesn't sell for shit, and you get nothing. Right now, most producers just try and get as many projects done per year. They don't really care what they work on, as long as they bet the big bucks. Again, for them it's become quantity over quality. And the labels are to blame. IMDB Credit list President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion." President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."
aliengroover Posted January 13, 2003 Posted January 13, 2003 My last post on this thread... No offense, bro, but I HATE when people take quotes out of context. I know my post was a little lengthy, but it was to a point. I did bring up publishing. I said "performance takes"...as in "performance royalties" (airplay, clubs, etc.). And the point about the actors had litte to zero to do with comparing them to producers. I said that this guy may be like the new owners of Virgin Records who don't think artists should be getting big advances (a big part of the reason they dropped Mariah, though they still paid her a fortune). But, since he's used to paying the "talent" (producers are included because in the genres I mentioned they are as much "artists" as the artists because they are responsible for creating pretty much all the music, and usually writing the lyrics), he may feel differently about it. That's all. Peace If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking 'til you do suck seed!
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