New Fusion Audio Demos...

[mildbill]

LesMizzell beat me to it. i was going to say that people have been clamoring for a synth instead of 'only' a workstation.

i think the main emphasis of the fusion for me would be the VA/FM/PM aspect of it and the rompler part would just be 'the icing on the cake'.

i certainly wouldn't judge it's merits on the sample based sounds alone, although they must be considered.

 

 

Dan: i said when the oasys was announced that i would reserve judgement until i got my hands on one. from the looks of it, that isn't going to happen. no stores around here are slated to carry them.

but even the doubters who have tried it have mostly all said that it's a very impressive synth and your excellent post backs that up at a deeper level.

i'm just curious though if a keyboard in this price category includes such niceties as polyphonic aftertouch and release velocity?

in addition to the 'engine', there are other factors to consider in the actual keyboard itself.

 

BTW: what does EX stand for?

[Dan Phillips]

Originally posted by mildbill:

Dan: i said when the oasys was announced that i would reserve judgement until i got my hands on one. from the looks of it, that isn't going to happen. no stores around here are slated to carry them.

That's too bad. To find the closest dealer, btw, you can use this tool on Korg's website:

 

http://www.korg.com/service/dealerlocator.asp

 

Originally posted by mildbill:

but even the doubters who have tried it have mostly all said that it's a very impressive synth and your excellent post backs that up at a deeper level.

Thank you.

 

Originally posted by mildbill:

i'm just curious though if a keyboard in this price category includes such niceties as polyphonic aftertouch and release velocity?

Nope, although it does respond to polyphonic aftertouch.

 

Do any current keyboards offer either poly aftertouch or release velocity? V-synth, Fantom X, Neuron, Motif, Neko, Fusion, etc. do not, as far as I can discern. Roland hasn't made the A-80 for a while; that was the last major poly aftertouch keyboard, I believe.

 

Originally posted by mildbill:

in addition to the 'engine', there are other factors to consider in the actual keyboard itself.

Sure. For instance, we use Yamaha's top-of-the line keyboard mechanism for the 76-note, and Korg's top-of-the line weighted mechanism for the 88-note.

 

Originally posted by mildbill:

BTW: what does EX stand for?

EXpansion. EXi: EXpansion instrument.

 

Best regards,

 

- Dan

[aliengroover]

Originally posted by MIdi:

Oh, but remember how blown away we were by the factory presets on the Roland D-50 back in '87?

Or the Yamaha SY-77 in '89? Or how about those evolving presets on the Korg Wavestation in '91? Those presets defined the instrument itself. The Fusion is kinda like the A6 in that regard, they give you all the tools, its up to the user to create sounds that inspire. I'm sure, over time, that the Fusion soundset will grow and amaze us all. This one's a keeper for me!

Lol, it's really funny 'cause I used to call that toll free number Korg had where you could listen to the Wavestation demo.

 

See, with me, the idea of everything being under one roof is nice, but I'm not buying anything for that. I'm pretty cool with the hardware and software "VAs" in my arsenal and FM synthesis isn't my cup of tea. So for me to invest, the ROM section would have to be killer, and the sampling (24 bit sampling IS in my future) and patch creation in that regard would have to be nice and easy, particularly when working with varying sample formats, which I believe they're working on. I don't believe I'm alone in this.

 

I'm with Dac and lots of others who've messed with it. You go up to it, you're all excited to the possiblilties, you play it, and then you're not excited. I understand where you guys are coming from, but neither of you (Les and The Meister) have heard it in person. I don't buy any gear because of potential, though it's certainly there, and virtually endless at that. The other sections are great, but Alesis is trying to sell me a complete package, including the ROM soundset. Now, I could easily load it up with my own samples and make my own killer presets, but should that really be necessary? I'm also not waiting for new presets or updates from a product that could possibly be discontinued in a year...and we've all walked that path.

 

I'll be back at it next week to really spend some time with it. I hope I come out with a different view, 'cause I, too, really want to like it.

Peace

[EricG]

Even the expensive Oasys hasn't really anything "new". !

Well, from a owner of the OASYS. All I can say: It is a synthesizer like nothing else out there. It is just amazing.

About the new thing Dan filled you in there.

You can check out my first thoughts about it here in my earlier post. (I wrote this 2 days after I got it.) Now I have been digging deeper into the OASYS, (programming my own sounds and put it into real life use) and I am even more amazed.

 

[EricG]

Sorry, double post.

[Les Mizzell]

Actually, the entire foundation of the architecture (Oasys) is new.

I probably worded my reply wrong. I do realize that there's a lot of new technology represented in the Oasys. It's just that the synthesis methods currently implemented aren't.

 

1. It's a Wavestation

2. It's a VA

3. It's a B3 emulation

4. It's a sample playback machine

 

...all four with obviously huge improvements in the underlying code structure, resulting in greatly improved capabilitites in a number of areas. The available options on just the EGs alone outside of a softsynth aren't really available anywhere else to the best of my knowledge.

 

The synth dynamic allocation scheme running under all this is very interesting and you're right - I haven't seen this implemented like this anywhere else.

 

And, then there will be new EXi instruments...but that's for the future.

Yea... Leak some info here, will ya?!?! What's next? My guess is a improved version of the MOSS type modeling technology. I've always felt that it was a shame that the Z1 wasn't carried forward into another more advanced version. Now there's a great chance to do just that, right?

 

Heh - here's another idea - see if Eric Lindemann will license the technology from "Synful Orchestra" to add as an Exi. Synful is pretty high on my "amazing" list right now. It would most certainly run on the processors in the Oasys.

 

I'd note that the CX-3 should qualify as physical modeling

 

I stand corrected! Thanks! I was thinking about physical modeling as in winds, brass, stringed instruments and such.

[sizzlemeister]

I think I have a problem with a thread on the Fusion featuring a substantial manufacturer pitch for a competing product (Oasys). No offense, of course, but it doesn't seem proper to me. Everyone else is free to disagree - I won't argue or belabor that point.

 

I have seen elsewhere that Korg doesn't necessarily consider the Fusion a competing product. But then I see the two being compared frequently. Are they competing products? IMHO they are despite the massive price gap.

[Les Mizzell]

No offense, of course, but it doesn't seem proper to me.

Sorry, I didn't help any by getting so far off topic by going on with the Oasys discussion. My apologies.

 

OK, let's get this back on topic. The Fusion is shipping. Folks have them. How come the only thing I can find on the web so far to listen to are the demos on the Alesis site? Someboy post something!

[sizzlemeister]

I will be heading to the only place local that would possibly have them - GC

 

...and give it a whirl. I am quite pleased with my Ion despite its lackluster beginnings. A full report shall be issued forthwith.

[Dan Phillips]

Originally posted by sizzlemeister:

I think I have a problem with a thread on the Fusion featuring a substantial manufacturer pitch for a competing product (Oasys). No offense, of course, but it doesn't seem proper to me. Everyone else is free to disagree - I won't argue or belabor that point.

I responded to a point raised about my product, that's all. I didn't bring it up. :-)

 

Originally posted by sizzlemeister:

I have seen elsewhere that Korg doesn't necessarily consider the Fusion a competing product. But then I see the two being compared frequently. Are they competing products? IMHO they are despite the massive price gap.

They certainly have some things in common: they're both keyboards, they both have sequencing and HDR, and they both include multiple synthesis methods implemented in software. There are various first-hand impressions to the two products posted here and elsewhere; I'd give them a look, and certainly encourage anyone who can to try out both in person, listening to the sounds, working with the interface, and so on. At that point, you can make your own informed decision as to how they compare, and whether or not one competes with the other.

 

- Dan

[sizzlemeister]

Dan, I'm looking forward to trying an Oasys, too. Nothing like driving a Cadillac - but in all reality I wouldn't be able to afford it (such is life). But, to experience it would be worth the time I'm sure.

[Les Mizzell]

I responded to a point raised about my product, that's all. I didn't bring it up.

I did. Sorry!

 

However, I'd like to continue the discussion. Is there a preferred thread already going, or start a new one?

 

I'm considering *both* instruments, and the more information I can get my hands on, especially from the horses mouth, the better!

 

Les

[mildbill]

Originally posted by Dan Phillips:

................

Do any current keyboards offer either poly aftertouch or release velocity? ........................................Best regards,

 

- Dan

the boards i currently own that use release velocity are: Kurzweil K2600, Access Virus, Clavia G2, Alesis Micron, and Alesis QS8.2

 

the Fusion also is capable of generating and using release velocity as a modulation source, but i don't have a Fusion.

 

it's a not-so-well known feature that becomes very important once you've become accustomed to using it. it's always the first thing i look for when i hear about a new board.

 

it's my understanding that it's fairly easy to implement and doesn't add to the cost of the board as it uses the same sensors used to measure velocity.

so it's a bit puzzling to me that korg and yamaha don't use it.

roland has used it in a very limited fashion (in regards to modulation capabilities), on a few boards, but i'm not sure which.

 

 

the only board i've had that used polypressure was the Ensoniq EPS sampler.

i don't know of any boards that are currently being manufactured that use it, although it seems many people are interested in it.

 

BTW: i used your 'dealer locator' link and it appears the closest place to me that will be carrying the Oasys is about a 200 mile round trip.

i may make a 'day-trip' out of it sometime just to check it out.

[kingj]

Spent 2 hrs at Guitar Center in Southfield, MI playing the Fusionsynth. Very dissapointed in the patches, which I think are a major selling point for any synth. They sound thin, similar to the Quadrasynth circa 1990 something. Ordered the Fantom XR from Sam Ashe instead. The factory patches ...simply fantastic!

Has anyone played the CME UF8 midi contoller?

[Les Mizzell]

Ordered the Fantom XR from Sam Ashe instead.

Roland has (IMHO) so very nice sounds for the Fantom series. It would easily fill my requirements for my "theatrical pit band" jobs. But, you get a sample playback synth, and that's it. Nothing else. So it doesn't fill the requirements I need for my other "ambient alien bug music" stuff.

 

To do everything I want to do with just one keyboard, I need more than one technology. That's what has has me excited about the Fusion. Maybe I'm more than willing to live with a slightly less than perfect (for now) sample based group of presets because I know what the other sections are capable of, and that's where I'm going to be spending most of my time.

[Les Mizzell]

Maybe I'm more than willing to live with a slightly less than perfect (for now) sample based group of presets ...

Actually, let me add to that. I consider the sample based stuff as a "bonus". I would have been just as interested in this keyboard without any sample based playback at all.

 

$5.00 says I can synthesize most of the imitative sounds I need from scratch without using samples at all. We shall see.

[Dan Phillips]

Originally posted by mildbill:

the boards i currently own that use release velocity are: Kurzweil K2600, Access Virus, Clavia G2, Alesis Micron, and Alesis QS8.2

Thank you - I didn't know that.

 

Originally posted by mildbill:

it's my understanding that it's fairly easy to implement and doesn't add to the cost of the board as it uses the same sensors used to measure velocity.

I hadn't thought about this before, but it would certainly make sense.

 

Thanks again for bringing this up. I'm going to look into it.

 

Best regards,

 

Dan