Sell out?

[Phred]

Inspired by the job/money thread.

 

What's a sellout? Is it okay to take a gig that is all about money even if you don't like the music or find it challenging? (If any of you were asked to play keys for Britney Spears of the Villiage People- would you?)

 

If music isn't your day job, do you have the same feeling about work? Would you take a higher paying job that was maybe not as interesting?

[Finale]

I often tried to play with bands doing top-40 or ultra commercial stuff and I never could stay very long. And as it didn't pay more than usual, I guess it's very difficult to deal with, unless you happen to be really hungry.

 

Of course, playing with Britney Spears, I wouldn't mind so much, as it would certainly pay good. On the worse case, in such a band you can always visually distract yourself when bored.

[RABid]

I think it is fine to take those jobs as a way to fund your artistic endeavors.

 

Robert

[David Loving]

I'm too old (62) to do things I do not like to do!

[Garrafon]

I might on rare occasions....the money would have to be REALLY, REALLY GOOD (esp. if Brittney agrees to date me lol). And, even so, I wouldn't be able to do it on a steady basis (I suppose if I HAD to, I could do Brittney on a steady basis, just not play her music hehe).

 

But, this is coming from a guy who left a high paying job because I wasn't enjoying what I was doing.

 

I remember when Neil Young came out with his "This Note's For You" album, he was considered to be a sell out at that time.

[MidLifeCrisis]

When I was in college I played for an Elvis impersonator for a summer gig. My friends laughed, others called me the proverbial sell out, some even thought I had totally lost my mind. I made $200 a night with this guy which was great money for the early 70s. By the time the summer was over I had enough to pay all of my tuition and books plus I paid cash for a 440 six pack Charger. I also bought a Rhodes and a C2. I wish I had more opportunities to sell out like that come along.

[kanker.]

Originally posted by garrafon:

I remember when Neil Young came out with his "This Note's For You" album, he was considered to be a sell out at that time.

I thought that that was about his dislike of his fellow rockers from his generation selling their tunes to ad campaigns, calling them sell outs.

[David Loving]

Re: Neil Young: I hope he remembers, southern man don't need him around anyhow...

[jackpine]

Originally posted by garrafon:

I remember when Neil Young came out with his "This Note's For You" album, he was considered to be a sell out at that time.

Wrong.

 

That song, in particular, was a parody of everyone who was doing the corporate rock, sell you tunes to the highest bidder mid 80's thing.

 

The video was a collection of scenes mocking.... let's see....

Eric Clapton, Micheal Jackson, Whitney Houston, a Calvin Cline ad and some others.

 

At the end he drinks a beer labeled "Sponsered by NOBODY."

 

Neil is the KING of NOT selling out.

 

Jesus.... his label sued him for not making commmercial enough albums....

[BluesKeys]

I guess I would have to give it a try. With the right money and the ability to network. There are other job opportunities out there. I would try to use it as a stepping stone to a better gig. Granted if that didn't happen I would probably get bored or sick of it at some point and have to quit. I just don't know where my break point would be.

 

I spent years avoiding playing east coast Beach Music. About 2 yrs ago I got a call from a beach band to sit in while their new keys player had surgery. I actually had fun for the most part, there were a half dozen songs I didn't care for. I wouldn't mind taking that gig because these guys make from $300 to $500 a night.

[guzman]

I try to take almost any gig offered to me, as long as I'm confident I'll be able to play it well, and the pay is halfway decent. You never know who you might run into at the job in terms of opportunities for future gigs. Establishing your name out in the field with a good reputation among other musicians is extremely important to getting more gigs and/or opportunities with other groups that you might be more to your liking.

 

Moreover, you almost always improve, even if the music is 'light'. Every chance you can get to put your fingers on the keys in a group environment is good for your chops and your ear. It never hurts to put some extra 'scratch' in your wallet too.

 

To answer the question of would I play keys for Britney Spears.... I'd do it in a New York minute. It would only lead to many more opportunities, and heck, it would probably even be fun. I stopped looking down my nose at gigs long ago - in the final analysis, it's a service job.

[Garrafon]

Yeah...brain fart on my part, I got the whole Neil think backwards....too damn long ago. That's when the whole sell out thing exploded. My bad!

[xtratorque]

I always though that the term "sell out" was an emotionally laden term used to insult someone rather than describe something. I know that there is an actual definition for the term which means than an artist has lost his or her integrity or whatever but it sounds more like an insult.

I personally do not understand why someone would write a song that they do not want to be heard. The second that you write a poem, song or make a painting it's no longer your special private thing, by the insulting definition of sell out that means you've sold out because you've distributed that personal thing to someone else. I apologize for the huge run on sentence haha. I don't know I guess the term hits a nerve.

[orangefunk]

I played in many a commercial band before I decided to only do what I wanted to do. At one stage I was in eight different bands.. but a lot of those had the same people and played the same music...

 

I think they're important in two ways.

 

Firstly they give you exposure to other styles of music... e.g.jazz/blues/rock

 

for exampleI knew nothing about "blues brothers" style of music and had never actually really played the blues properly before. Also it paid fairly well and got me into the scene, new friends and so forth...

 

Secondly it gives you an idea as to how much it really sucks to play that stuff night after night and having people comeup to you praising you yet also slating you for "that other shit" you do in the other band (i.e. my jazz fusion band).. therefore you gain a new respect and insight into your own music..

 

I think starting out it really pays to do as much as you can...and I encourage my drummer to do exactly that... but once you get to a certain age (for me it was my early 30s) I think you start thinking lifes to short to be doing something that you don't really have your heart in..

 

So I say take as much as you can from any scene and use it to pay for gear andinfluence your own music...

[Ed Coury]

For a gig here or there, I love to play with any GOOD band in just about any genre, if they are TIGHT, solid players.

 

It's a challenge to test my country music piano chops with a talented country band -- same with the blues, jazz, pop, rock, etc.

[cnegrad]

I think that the concept of "selling out", is something that younger or less mature folks are concerned with. As we grow older, we realize that everyone needs to make enough money to carry us through our later years. Younger folks tend not to think about that sort of thing. In this day and age so many "serious artists" have taken to doing commercial projects and I really can't blame them.

[Phred]

I picked the term selling out, because it is emotionally charged. I think it is funny that some musicians think that if you do something to make money that you have sold out. However if Microsoft buys your small software firm, you have done well.

[DirtyRubberDuck]

I recently decided to "sell out" and learn a few country tunes (not REAL country, like Brooks and Dunn stuff) because they are popular with the crowds. Actually I wound up with a new appreciation of the music. Still not my favorite genre, but got me thinking that perhaps the fear of "selling out" is sometimes just a refusal to step outside your comfort zone. After all, that music you loved from your mid-late teens was pop at the time . . .

 

DRD

[Bartolomeo]

I play what the people want to hear. I take the gigs that are available and that work for me logistically. A well paying gig for an appreciative crowd that doesn't have you hauling too much gear too far is better than playing your favorite music in the garage with your friends.

 

Too many bands break up after deciding play self-indulgent creative stuff that nobody likes but them.

[Bosendorphen]

I admire those who work full-time or part-time and earn good money playing music. Learning what the people want to hear is important, even if you are doing orignial material as well.

 

From my late teens through my 30s I played the current and "classic" Top 40, jazz and rock, and made some decent money doing it. I had a great time and worked with a core of musicians that was more or less stable that whole time as other members would come and go.

 

I learned a great deal during that time about performance, arrangements and such and we would often throw in our own music and do original music concerts on our own to keep the creative juices flowing.

 

But by my late 30s I really want to focus on my original music. I'm fortunate to have other income (soundtrack music/video production) so I can persue doing my own stuff as is the also the case with the other guys in my band whom I've known for 25 years or more. We have become a family.

 

So we do "event" gigs where the are good-sized crowds and have had very appreciative audiences, sold our CDs and had a great time. Of course we also pepper our sets with classic rock that people will recognize. But that helps put the original stuff over because people like to hear something they recognize and I believe they are more willing to hear something new as a result.

 

I feel very fortunate to have a great bunch of close friends as my band mates and have no complaints! I'm a lucky guy!

[bloodyMary]

I'd play with a good solid band just about in any jenre, even without getting any money (until it'd cost me too much money or time).

 

I see no reason why a bad band would make profit out of playing - public doesnt buy anything you offer. So, if a band makes money, even if it plays hip hop, or pop, or whatever I dont really like - it's probably a good band and I can learn from being in it.

 

 

Every opportunity to play with new people, new jenre, must be exploited,cuz it's always a learning experience.

[cnegrad]

I see no reason why a bad band would make profit out of playing - public doesnt buy anything you offer.

In my experience, listeners (aka "the general public"), have varying degrees of discernment when it comes to music appreciation. Some people just can't tell the difference between exceptional, average, and even bad. There's absolutely no accounting for taste or the lack of it.

[Phred]

Originally posted by bloodyMary:

I see no reason why a bad band would make profit out of playing - public doesnt buy anything you offer.

At first I read this and thought to myself "there are plenty of bad bands out there making money"... Then I disected the meaning a little further. If they are making money, they are doing something right... Maybe not my type of music, but somebody likes it. So, while the White Stripes or President's of the USA might not float my boat, they flost somebodies, and make money while doing it...

 

my .02$ and slightly OT.