Which one of these rigs would you choose?

[eric]

Hey folks,

 

Those of you that know me will know that I've been plagued with this gig problem for a long time. I like to use 3 keyboards (piano, organ and synth), but oftentimes, I only have room for 2 keyboards at gigs. We're a large band and sometimes I cannot fit all that gear on stage (not to mention it is kind of a hassle to carry 3 keyboards).

 

I'm really hooked on my current line-up of S90, Electro and DSI PolyEvolver KB plus Rack. Problem is, I can't always find room for all of these and the PEK is the one that sits on the bench in this scenario. The S90 + Electro is the core rig, but I'm starting to get pretty addicted to the PEK and hate to make it sit on the sideline during gigs. I've worked on a couple of triple-decker stand solutions, but did not like any of them. So when I have 3 keyboards, it is an "L" configuration that requires an additional stand and more space on stage.

 

So I am pondering the following 2 rig choices to allow me to always have all 3 sound sources in only 2 keyboards. Both require an incremental expenditure, but I have something I can sell to justify this. Check it out:

 

TWO KEYBOARD RIG - CHOICE ONE

1) Yamaha S90

2) DSI PEK & Rack

3) Nord Electro Rack - controlled by PEK

 

In this rig, the big change is not having the Electro keyboard, but instead using the PEK to trigger the Electro sounds. Not sure how much fussing will be involved with switching between PEK sounds and Electro sounds, but I could work something out on this. I would also run a MIDI merge unit to allow the S90 to be an alternative controller for certain things (lower organ manual, complex Master setups, etc.) The Electro Rack would need to be perched on my rig for access to the UI in real time. I could not have it hidden in a rack out of reach.

 

TWO KEYBOARD RIG - CHOICE TWO

1) DSI PEK & Rack

2) Nord Electro

3) Motif Rack (or ES Rack) - controlled by either the Electro or PEK (or both)

 

In this rig, I would still have all the sounds, but would lose the 88-note weighted action and Master capabilities of the S90. But it would be a lighter-weight, slimmer solution. It would also give me some flexibility to have the PER and Motif bundled in the same rack for rehearsal purposes. Changing sounds on the Motif Rack would be challenging from the Electro, unless I had a lot of pre-mapped sounds or used some kind of intelligent MIDI router box to help.

 

One other option is to just keep what I have and use the PE Rack without the PER when I cannot fit it on stage. But I've gotten used to 8 voices of poly and scaling back to 4 is not so much fun when you know you could have 8!

 

Another option is to explore other triple-decker stand solutions, but I doubt there are many options that would give me easy reach and visibility to all the controls and also the stability I've come to love with my Invisible stand. What do you guys think?

 

Regards,

Eric

[Keybass]

Eric, if it were me I would go S90+PEK and call it a day.

[RABid]

I would keep the S90. The PEK controlling the electro is a better option than either a PEK or Electro controlling a Motif Rack.

 

Robert

[mildbill]

if i had to lug it around a lot by myself i'd probably go with #3: nord electro plus PE rack plus motif ES rack.

 

if i needed 88 keys, zones, splits, layers, BC, etc. it'd be S90 plus nord electro rack plus PE rack.

 

i'm not familiar with the PEK as a keyboard, but it seems like both the PEK and the Nord keys would make awful good use of the controls available on the keyboards.

i think the NE rack keeps a lot of those controls, right? how about the PE rack? do you lose a lot of the control capabilities compared to the keyboard?

 

one other option you sort of mentioned would be:

S90

Nord Electro

2 PE racks (for your 8 voices).

 

of course, it would mean buying another PE rack, but you'd also keep the PEK and be able to go light/small or heavy/large at will.

 

to get really carried away, you could also get a motif(or ES) rack and have LOTS of options.

 

this would put you at:

S90/Motif (ES) rack

Nord Electro

PEK

2 PE racks.

 

but of course, to go completely over the top, you'd also have to pick up an Electro rack.

 

too complicated? = Nord Stage plus PE rack. - done.

 

ha, ha, ha - lots of help, aren't I?

[r33k]

Two comments:

 

1. You are entirely too picky.

2. Option two is the one I would go for.

 

Good luck with your decision. God knows you've fretted over your stage rig for long enough!

[Trill]

Eric I will gladly demo your rig for a month to give you a solid opinion and help you with your decision

[eric]

Originally posted by Michael Erwin:

God knows you've fretted over your stage rig for long enough!

Yes, you are correct, sir! One of my favorite pastimes when I'm not working, gigging or hanging out with my family is obsessing over gear! It really is fun. That's one of the reasons I hang out at these forums, like many of you guys as well.

 

I'm a little bit proud that the S90 and Electro have been serving me well for quite some time and its this confounded 3rd keyboard in the rig that always wraps me around the axle. I've been experimenting with a wide variety of RA and VA 3rd keyboards for years and they keep getting bench time, which tricks me into thinking I need something else. This PEK is more of a long-term keeper and I have so much invested in it that I really hate to not use it!

 

I've been playing with my rig at home quite a bit lately as the band took some time off for the summer. Gig season is just about to start and I really don't have time to integrate anything new (other than maybe an S90ES when they ship )...

 

Thanks for the replies. I'm probably going to just stick with the 3 keyboard rig, probably in this "L" arrangement:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/eslawson/pek_7.JPG

 

The true "triple-decker" is a bit too tall and unwieldy:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/eslawson/pek_25.JPG

 

Originally posted by Trill:

Eric I will gladly demo your rig for a month to give you a solid opinion and help you with your decision

Send me your address and I'll ship it all out to you tomorrow!

 

Regards,

Eric

[Marzzz]

Originally posted by eric:

 

I'm a little bit proud that the S90 and Electro have been serving me well for quite some time and its this confounded 3rd keyboard in the rig that always wraps me around the axle.

Screw it. Add a Voyager and an Andromeda and do a Wakeman thing.....!

[MusicaL]

Eric

 

Rig No. 1 is the rig I would use. It gives you all the flexibility and all the control you need. Option 2 would be frustrating for lack of master controller capabilities and lack of weighted keys.

 

I like the idea of the PEK controlling the Electro Rack instead of having the three board set up you now have. I just don't know that I'd want to fuss with three boards on gigs, and not having access to the board as to where I want it, on my right or left. The stacked three boards setup isn't an option for me!

 

My two cents..

 

aL

[JMcS]

You just need to use one of these as the 3rd keyboard to control the rack stuff:

http://www.roland.com/products/com/AX-7/images/top_M.jpg

 

[Dreamer]

Eric, you simply have to wait till the Nord Stage and the S 90ES come out, then you will decide if it's worth selling the S 90 and the Electro to buy a Stage and a Motif ES rack. This way your setup would be scaled down to just two keyboards!

Another option is to trade in the S 90 for the S 90ES (which you would do anyway... ) and sell the Electro to buy an Electro rack: once again, just two keyboards!

Having to wait a few more weeks will have a positive side effects as well: you will learn to control your GAS!!!

(Man, I am starting to be worried about you...)

[keyoctave]

Hi Eric,

 

I have been through the two vs three keyboards many times also. I always come back to three. What I have done is to set up the stack in an off set manner so I can still use three keyboards but only take up the space of roughly a two stack.

 

The picture below is what I am talking about. This is what I was using about 4 1/2 years ago (have since replaced all keyboards....GAS!). By setting up this way, I can play piano with right hand and organ/synth with the other without the hand crossing problem that can happen when playing keyboards stacked up on top of each other. If you are just playing organ or synth, then all you do is turn slightly to the left and face the keyboards dead on. Hope this gives you some other options to consider.

 

http://www.geocities.com/keyoctave/013_10A.JPG

[kanker.]

I'd go for option #3 - Nord Electro and Nord Stage, but then again, I'm a Nord whore.

[Keybass]

Originally posted by kevank:

I'd go for option #3 - Nord Electro and Nord Stage, but then again, I'm a Nord whore.

Nord whore would be a killer name for a synth punk band.

[Trill]

[

Originally posted by Trill:

Eric I will gladly demo your rig for a month to give you a solid opinion and help you with your decision

Send me your address and I'll ship it all out to you tomorrow!

 

Regards,

Eric [/QB]

 

 

You would do anything for an excuse to buy more gear Perhaps a S-90ES or Nord Stage while I have your stuff LOL.

 

In all seriousness, I can't blame you for wanting to get down to 2 boards. Thank goodness, I don't know much about synths or I would be in the same boat.

 

 

"A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing"

[RABid]

If you really want to go smaller, consider this.

 

Motif ES6 controlling the Electro Rack

PEK controlling the PER

 

The Motif ES has great sound and makes a great controller. It is easy to set up performances that split the keyboard along with controlling internal and external sounds.

 

Robert

[Moon Zero Two]

S90ES, Electro, PolyEvolver - I hate bringing racks to gigs - too many wires - too many potential problems.

 

I would also question wheither you really need to bring the PolyEvolver to a job - the S90ES - Motif ES - makes plenty of fine synth sounds - not in the same league as a Evolver but good enough for a gig.

 

I gig with a Motif ES and a Korg CX-3.

[r33k]

Originally posted by eric:

 

The Electro Rack would need to be perched on my rig for access to the UI in real time. I could not have it hidden in a rack out of reach.

 

Hi again Eric!

 

I'm curious as to why this is a requirement. I've never messed with an Electro for any period of time, so this is ignorance talking. Do you actually interact with those fake drawbar thingys during a piece, or is there some other functionality you get from the front panel that you couldn't get any other way?

 

Just curious...

[DirtyRubberDuck]

To think I want to ditch my lone S80 cause it's too heavy. What about your amps???

 

DRD

[eric]

Originally posted by RonL:

I would also question wheither you really need to bring the PolyEvolver to a job - the S90ES - Motif ES - makes plenty of fine synth sounds - not in the same league as a Evolver but good enough for a gig.

Ron, that is a really, really good question. It is a serious quandary for me! I agree that the Poly Evolver is very close to overkill for the jobs that I do. Problem is, if I don't use it for gigs, then I may as well sell it. My philosophy (as noted in another recent thread called " Does your gear pay for itself?" is that I cannot have expensive equipment sitting on the bench at home. There are a few exceptions, but with constant surges of GAS, there's no way I can leave a PEK & PER rig for just home use. I simply don't play enough at home to justify it!

 

So I guess I'll keep trying the 3 keyboards plus rack (PE Rack) for now until such time that I again convince myself that 2 keyboards can handle the job. Hmmm....

 

Originally posted by Michael Erwin:

I'm curious as to why this is a requirement. I've never messed with an Electro for any period of time, so this is ignorance talking. Do you actually interact with those fake drawbar thingys during a piece, or is there some other functionality you get from the front panel that you couldn't get any other way?

It's a requirement because I do play with the LED "drawbuttons" constantly as if they were real drawbars on a Hammond organ. I change them on the fly for just about every song, in addition to tweaking FX settings in real time. I could not have it hidden off stage in a rack, unfortunately!

 

Regards,

Eric

[r33k]

Okay. Then it's back to my original advice, which was to ditch the weighted controller. That just seems to fall into the "nice-to-have" and not the "absolutely-necessary" category. My $0.02 only.

 

Best,

[Tonysounds]

Hey Eric, this isn't a 2 keyboard solution, but until I get the NordStage you and I are in the same boat. I take a Motif8, Electro and FantomX7 to the gig. I have put the Invisible Stand away for a while and reverted to my Quicklock WS550 stand with a second tier. I put the MOtif 8 on the bottom, and using gaffers tape and Velcro, make a large square pad at the two ends an "Electro distance" apart. I put gaffers tape and velcro on the bottom of the Electro ends. I went to Michaels (a chick hobby store) and bought a pair of thick styrofoam blocks (about 3" square) 12" long, and covered them in gaffers tape and velcro. I put the blocks on top of the MOtif, and the Electro on top of the blocks. The blocks allow me to get the Electro far enough back that I can still see the Motif display. Then the 2nd tier arms for the WS550 are high enough that I can get the Fantom over the Electro, tilted down, and still get my hands and eyes on the Electro's control surface.

 

But I really want to get this down to a 2keyboard rig myself.

T

[daBowsa]

Tony - we need pictures of this rig!

[eric]

Hey Tony - I would love to see photos of this as well! You've done some cool things with your rig in the past and I had not seen the styrofoam thing yet.

 

Like me, Tony O is another avid velcro user. I don't know what I'd do without it!

 

As for my own predicament about which rig to choose, it looks like I am closer to settling on Option #1. I was all ready to sell my beautiful PEK, but I've had second thoughts and think I'll keep it!

 

Regards,

Eric

[daBowsa]

Does the Electro rack have any more advanced MIDI than the Electro? If not, I guess you could simulate Option 1 and give it a try at rehearsal to see if you can keep your hands off the Electro.

[eric]

Does the Electro rack have any more advanced MIDI than the Electro? If not, I guess you could simulate Option 1 and give it a try at rehearsal to see if you can keep your hands off the Electro.

Not sure - I think they are identical. I've already been doing some experimentation at home with the PEK perched above my S90 and the Electro off to the side. The PEK works ok as a controller once you get used to the hotter velocity. Also, there are some challenges related to filtering out of the PEK MIDI transmission to keep the Electro from switching patches (but keep the PEK receiving them) and so forth.

 

What's cool about the Electro Rack is that it has an identical interface and all the same in/out jacks (including the pedals). I was surprised by this. It would make a nice little plug and play sub for the Electro, which I don't think I'd ever get rid of unless they release an Electro 3.

 

Regards,

Eric

[David Loving]

Eric- I'd consider staying with your present set up and just add the electro rack for 'special occasions.'

[Dave Pierce]

Eric,

 

Well, I want to tell you to go with Choice #2. But my reasons are purely selfish -- we have similar tastes in rigs, and I want you to guinea pig that setup, since I've been thinking of trying something similar.

 

But in fairness I've got to put a plug in for the Standtastic stands from LM Products. My three-tier is stable and usable. Yeah, it's a bit big, and perhaps the keyboards could be even closer together, but it's really not bad.

 

My only real complaint with it is that after nearly two years some of the hardware is taking a beating. I might need to buy another one before much longer. But, I figure it averages out to $2 a gig or something, so I'm not that worried about it.

 

--Dave

 

--Dave

[burningbusch]

Eric, I finally took the plunge and got an Electro 61. I took your advice and tried it live with stage speakers and was impressed. Triggering the EPs from a good weighted keyboard made a huge difference as well. I also switched to the RD700SX. I decided not to wait on the S90ES. I know the ES soundset and its real advantage over the S90/Motif is in guitars, basses and drums, none of which are all that important to me live. I think the RD700SX ac. piano is excellent as is the new Rhodes. I prefer this Roland Rhodes over the Nords, but I understand the attractiveness off the Nord Rhodes.

 

I also have a VL1m in a rack and might add other rack items. I couldn't imagine running a setup without one good master keyboard (S90, RD700SX, Kurzweil). It just makes life so much easier.

 

I think Clavia will do very well with the Nord Stage. Who knows, it might be on my list once I try it out.

 

Busch.

[SilverDragonSoun]

Well this has been hit from many different angles. Personally I'd go with rig one. Its flexible enough to give you what you want and the S90 is so versatile and useable. Its also provides potentially less headaches.