troglodyte Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Hi I'm new here and just read some of the software vs hardware topics. Recently I decided to try a software sampler to improve the sound of my Clavinova (CLP950) which I use mainly for practice when I cannot use my grand. So I invested in the EastWest Bösendorfer. This is my experience so far. By large I am quite disappointed. It took some tweaking to get to run properly (the most important was to disable the XP swap file, an undocumented trick that took me ages to stumble on) and it still sometimes drops out when I play hairy parts, despite doing away with release samples and using a dedicated HD - and yet I have 1G Ram. Also the sound is not all that great. True, it feels much more alive than the Clavinova. But the "dry" samples (piano only, no ambient) are very harsh and unpleasant to my ear. The "wet" samples (including an ambient) sound better but are so muddy that in complicated passages it is impossible to hear what is played. It is possible to mix these for a better sound but then both samples myust be loaded and then the program drops out more often. The velocity curve (= how the loudness depends on how hard you hit the keys) is unpredictable at places, giving strange accents where none was intended Perhaps I am unfair. Perhaps it is just that I am unused to and don't like a Bösendorfer - I never played one in real life. Anyway I am going back to the Clavinova sound, which is not bad at all even if it is a bit more artifical. I guess I should wait for the PC release of Ivory that everybody talks about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisheye Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Hi troglodyte, look here for tweaking tips: musicxp.net . A dedicated harddrive isn't needed btw, since once the software is loaded, the harddrive isn't used for software anymore, so it can dedicate itself for the samples. IMO, the pmi bosendorfer is a lovely sound. However, pmi doesn't have 20+ years of experience in creating a pleasantly playing instrument, like Yamaha has. It's an art that it is more than just recording samples. Try playing something other than sustained passages with the pmi and you'll go mad. Even the dry samples are rather wet, so forget live playing. Solo playing in a dry room is the only way with it. They do know how to record a piano for cd records, that's why it has that lovely sound. (Creator Michiel Post also works as a sound engineer I believe.) I've never found it to be harsh, what sound system are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisheye Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Originally posted by troglodyte: Perhaps I am unfair. Perhaps it is just that I am unused to and don't like a Bösendorfer - I never played one in real life. I'm not a big Bosendorfer fan myself, it's too romantic for my taste. But in real live, that would be nitpicking. Getting a decent piano is hard enough already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K K Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I never used the particular software you're talking about, but according to your explanation it seems it exhibits the same problem as almost every grand-piano-emulation software suffers as well. It's one thing to make super clean high-resolution samples of a grand. But it's still light years away from reproducing the complexity of a grand piano. Great samples are not enough and must be completed with different "harp resonance" layers to give soul, not to mention finding a realistic balance between the different sets of samples (p to f), etc. Another point that's not so obvious all the time is one's familiarization with a given sound. When one plays for a long time on a certain keyboard or hears a certain sound when playing, sometimes even a better sound can be perceived as worst just because it's new, even if the pianist has a good ear. In other words, it usually take time (often one week of using an instrument or new sound) to be able to give a unbiased opinion between the new sound/instrument and the well-known one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisheye Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Originally posted by troglodyte: I guess I should wait for the PC release of Ivory that everybody talks about. We talk about that, since the creator of that software dòes have 20 years of experience, like Yamaha. So that is experience combined with the power of today's computers, hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisheye Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Originally posted by Cydonia: Great samples are not enough and must be completed with different "harp resonance" layers to give soul, not to mention finding a realistic balance between the different sets of samples (p to f), etc. Just noting that the newer sample-programs of PMI do include body resonance simulation when combined with Gigastudio 3 or Kontakt 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K K Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Originally posted by fisheye: Just noting that the newer sample-programs of PMI do include body resonance simulation when combined with Gigastudio 3 or Kontakt 2. Well, that's good to hear. Again, emulation software is not my cup of tea, but maybe I'll reconsider it someday if such products exist. But I suppose the cost of such a kit (Gigastudio + good piano emulator + PC that can handle the big data demand) must be prohibitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troglodyte Posted August 5, 2005 Author Share Posted August 5, 2005 look here for tweaking tips: musicxp.net. Thanks! I'll check it out. I've never found it to be harsh, what sound system are you using? An Edirol UA-25 connected back to the Clavinova, I don't think this is the issue. Anyway I normally use headphones (when the coast is clear for me to be noisy I use my Förster grand instead). Perhaps "harsh" is the wrong word and this is kind of subjective. But I find the attack very hard and the tone decays much more rapidly than the Clavinova (or for that matter my Förster, and it is just a baby grand) making it difficult to carry singing lines, in particular since loudness control sometimes is erratic (or maybe I just didn't get the hang of it yet). My problems are mainly in the middle register. The bass I agree is very good (though so loud I need to practice a lighter touch or it will drown everything) and the higher registers are not so bad. But I suppose the cost of such a kit (Gigastudio + good piano emulator + PC that can handle the big data demand) must be prohibitive. Actually it is much cheaper than buying a newer Clavinova, which is why I considered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troglodyte Posted August 5, 2005 Author Share Posted August 5, 2005 I owe an apology: I just realised that attack and decay and such things can actually be modified in the "volume envelope". I need to play around with this a bit more, and perhaps get used to the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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