Arranger Keyboard Discussion

[resigned]

Hi. A discussion was started about in another thread about arranger keyboards, so this is a continuation of that discussion about anything related to arranger keyboards and related technology.

 

First, some introductory thoughts. For discussion purposes, an arranger keyboard is simply any keyboard with auto-accompaniment (drums, bass and other instruments follow the keyboardist's live playing). There was a time when auto-accompaniment keyboards meant a cheezy unprofessional sound, but that has changed as the technology has evolved. Today's arrangers are 21st century interactive instruments.

 

It's interesting to note that arranger keyboards may be that most prolific and widely sold type of electronic keyboard today considering that most of the consumer keyboards you find in WalMart, Circuit City, Best Buy and other retail and music stores have some form of auto-accompaniment. Many hobbyists and first-time keyboard buyers are likely buying a small arranger keyboard of some sort. But by the same token, home keyboards costing into the tens of thousands of dollars can also include auto-accompaniment and feature a full piano and fine cabinetry, so arrangers are not always toys or inexpensive starter instruments.

 

Today we are seeing arranger technology spread into pro-level keyboards, both discretely and openly. In essense, any technology which allows sequenced phrases to follow or be derived from your live chordal input can be considered "arranger technology". This would apply to the phrases in the Yamaha Motif ES (taken directly from the Tyros arranger), Korg's Karma technology, etc. New pro arrangers are on the market as well such as Roland's G70, Korg's PA1X and PA1XPro, and Yamaha's Tyros and upcoming Tyros 2. That's not to mention the semi-pro keyboards like Yamaha's PSR line, Korg's PA80 and former i-Series, Roland's E and EXR series, and a host of lesser known manufacturers as well. Even the small Yamaha QY-series of "pocket sequencers" are also arrangers. Many keyboards like Yamaha's PSR3000, Korg's PA80 and Roland EXR 5/7 blur the lines completely, working both as home instruments (with built-in speakers) and stage instruments as well.

 

While most of us have had some exposure to arrangers, they are coming into a new light for keyboardists seeking to have a solo act prepared for times when the band gigs are less reliable. If you have to have a rompler for your band gig anyway, it's only prudent that it would be capable of playing back midi files or allowing for live improvisation in a solo setting or when the keyboardist is "the band" behind a vocal group. Many pro arrangers today include features like built-in vocal harmonizers and color displays. My discontinued Yamaha 9000 Pro has LittLite sockets - a handy feature I wish more keyboard makers, including Yamaha, would adopt on their higher-end keyboards.

 

Arranger keyboards require an entire unique set of performing skills unto themselves to be used effectively. Keyboardists often find that their left hands have to play in a more restrictive fashion or that certain chord configurations can have unexpected results. Many better arrangers offer a variety of interpretive settings to match the performer's style. And there is the added tasks of trying to switch better intro/verse/chorus/pickup/endings with varieties while performing live... a challenge no matter how skilled a player you are. Some companies like Yamaha have tried to address this challenge by offering midi foot control pedals to aid with pattern changes.

 

I don't pretend to be an expert in this field but I have come to an appreciation for the new generation of pro-level arrangers in the past five years, and the people who perform with them. I bought my first pro arranger in 1999, a Roland EM-2000, and soon moved up to the flagship Yamaha 9000 Pro which I now own two of and play almost exclusively. Both of those keyboard are now discontinued and newer instruments have taken their place. In fact, the arranger instrument market is very dynamic with new and improved models coming out at a rapid pace.

 

The floor is open to questions and discussion. Here are some links for reference:

Synth Zone Arranger Forum

Yamaha\'s CVP Users Group

Yamaha\'s Arranger Workstation Website

Yamaha Tyros

Roland Arrangers Roland G-70

Korg PA1XPro

SVP World\'s Yamaha 9000 Pro site

[Mike Davis]

Pro, thanks for sharing -- good food for thought there. A lot of people in my area, myself included, use minidiscs for solo gigs and certain types of band work. They're ok, but a little stiff. What I'd really like is to create a more organic type of interaction with other musicians -- things like tapping in a tempo and then mixing a loop or a sampled phrase into the band's groove. It may be that folks are already doing this, maybe in the chill area or groups like the Black Eyed Peas. Anyway, it's definitely one of the things that's got me dreaming about an Oasys.

 

Who else is growing in this direction?

 

Mike

[Stephen Fortner]

Great thoughts on arrangers. I'm actually going to bug some factory reps I know about sales performance of their arranger lines vs. pro workstations. I've heard it said many times that the former ourperforms the latter, but I'd like to get some harder data.

[MikeT156]

Stephen, that's interesting. I played a Yamaha PSR3000 some time ago and it's a pretty amazing KB. My live show is a bit different than Jim's (Pro) so a workstation is better for me, in addition to two other KB's. I'm still using a TS10 to play back my Sequences, and a Motif ES8 and an Alesis ION for what I play live.

 

I've been using some of the Motif's Mega voices for guitar parts while I sing and use a harmonizer. It sounds like 3 or 4 singers being backed up by a guitar player finger pickin' on a Folk Guitar.

 

I also use some of the Performance setups on the Motif ES8, play the KB and switch to different ARP's throughout a song so I don't have to sequence anything. For the most part, I tend to play the parts live, and use drums and different arps for specific songs. I still like using a split KB with bass, Rhodes and then drums. Kind of traditional in a sense for some of the jazzy stuff and improvising things I like to do for fun.

 

Arrangers and workstations have been different animals for the most part, the Motif ES8 has a touch of both, which fits my needs great.

 

Mike T.

[Jessica T]

I have heard people over the years say this about arrangers; "It follows you.", but they weren't specific as to whether it follows you harmonicly or whether it follows your timing, or both. When I finally got one of my own, I discovered that it just follows you harmonicly; it recognizes what chords your left hand is playing and, well, kind of adds to it. Have you all ever come across one in a given situation that will follow your timing too? For example, if I were in a band, covering a rhodes part and a synth part, split, with some other string pads and stuff going on of it's making. If there was a drummer, a bass player, a guitarist and a singer, and they all had their timing going. If I were to follow their timing, would it follow me? Or is that not possible due to its inability to "guess" what's coming next?

Also, what's the difference really between an arranger and a workstation? Thanks.

[MikeT156]

Jessica:

 

An arranger is something that you can play "live" and the Keyboard will provide the backing music that will enhance what musical information you give it. You select the style of music youw want to play, you can change the tempo, etc. But it will stay in time.

 

Existing workstation have built in sequences and samples. The sequencer is an electronic recorder. You record all the tracks and when playing live, you follow the sequencer. You can also buy commercial SMF (Standard Midi Files) or GM (General Midi) files and have workstations that accept either or both play them back so you don't have to spend all your time recording every part for every song. Some of the newer worktations, like the Yamaha Motif ES have both the standard workstation capability, but have added some of the arranger KB features of Yamaha's Tyros series to it's palette.

 

As far as playing with a band, they would have to follow you. As long as your chord changes are consistent, it can be done. Getting your band to do that might be another matter.

 

 

Mike T.

[keynote]

Originally posted by Jessica Tomlinson:

Have you all ever come across one in a given situation that will follow your timing too? For example, if I were in a band, covering a rhodes part and a synth part, split, with some other string pads and stuff going on of it's making. If there was a drummer, a bass player, a guitarist and a singer, and they all had their timing going. If I were to follow their timing, would it follow me?

Unfortunately an Arranger (when using the arranger's auto accompaniment features) cannot follow the timing of a beat from an outside source such as a Band. There are too many unknown variables to factor in and the results would be less than desireable in my opinion. Maybe some day though who knows.

 

Also, a Band would have a hard time keeping in time with an Arranger (when using the auto-accompaniment features) for the same reasons.

 

The Yamaha Tyros has the ability where when practicing a song using the Score feature along with the Guide feature it follows your timing and speeds up or slows down according to your input on the keys. But in a Band situation if you use the arranger functions the Band will have to follow your timing, not the other way around unfortunately. And again, with less than optimal results. But what's nice about an Arranger is if and when you play with a Band you can simply turn off the arranger functions and play the keyboard just like any other Keyboard, Digital Piano, or Synth Workstation. So a Rhodes patch on an Arranger can be used with the Band just like you do with the Rhodes patch on e.g. - a Korg OASYS or a Motif ES etc. The timing will depend on how tight the Band is but regardless you will still need to keep in time with the Band or they will need to keep in time with you. Just like it would be done in any given Live band situation.

 

But with an Arranger's auto-accompaniment features you can get ideas for songs and build a song from scratch in a fraction of the time it would take on a traditional "quote" - Workstation. And with the multi-varied Styles that an Arranger posseses, inspiration can be just a few keystokes away. If you want to Gig with a Band you simply turn off the accompaniment features.

 

One thing that usually separates a traditional Workstation from an Arranger is the inclusion of a Sampler on a Workstation. But that is not always the case. The Korg Pa1X/PRO have Samplers. The new and upcoming Tyros 2 will also have a Sampler on board from what I understand. And even the discontinued Yamaha PSR 8000 and PSR 9000/PRO had Samplers.

 

I also believe the line is getting thinner and thinner when it comes to separating Workstations from Arrangers in regards to sound quality and even features and function. Could it be Workstations will follow suit with Arrangers in the way of accompaniment features? It is beginning to happen already in my opinion with the Motif ES whose Arpeggiator now follows Chord changes. It may be soon when many if not all Keyboards will have some types of auto-accompaniment features included in them. It only makes sense if you ask me. Just that added something that makes making music a little easier and less time consuming; not to mention more enriching, and even more fun too.

[Jessica T]

Cool, thanks for making that just a little clearer.

[resigned]

Here's an example of what I can do with a single patch on my Yamaha 9000 Pro arranger - let's say I want to perform Cher's hit song, "Believe" with a female vocalist (I should point out right here that I can do this with as little gear as the 9000 Pro keyboard, a mic and some powered speakers): the one-touch song performance patch that I have stored under the name "Believe" will call up:

 

*the keyboard patches I will want program to my "instant access" patch buttons (three for right hand, one for left) including any splits or layers.

*patches for "stab" buttons (that's what I call them - four buttons that can have their own sounds and/or riffs programmed in... perfect for triggering that "after love" sample at will).

*the keyboard MIDI settings.

*the digital sample of "after love, after love, after love...".

*backing rhythm patterns (drums, bass, synths) for intro/verse/chorus/ending with 4 variations of each (or a midi file for playback).

*the vocal settings (a mic can be plugged straight into the keyboard, or I can loop an effects buss from a mixer through the keyboard) which includes settings for EQ, compressor and effects (including a vocoder), and there is a "talk" button my keyboard with it's own EQ/effects settings for talking between songs. BTW: there is separate programmable EQ for the vocals and effects.

*settings and EQ/effects for the internal vocal harmonizer.

*the mix for all of the above, which is controllable live.

 

It would normally take a rack of equipment to pull this off and even then it'd take some effort to get all those settings recalled with one patch. I don't think there is any other instrument or device that can pull this off single-handedly in the same manner. Remember that using an arranger to pull off "Believe" would allow for a full interactive performance live - you could remix on the fly and improvise at will. Add some midi-controllable lighting and you've got a complete show.

 

My point is to further illustrate the difference between arrangers vs. workstations. Your average keyboard workstation, at least as I know the term, is something akin to a studio-in-a-box with most of the tools you need in that environment. But modern arrangers are more apt at being "live performance workstations" with tools and options more suited to stage than studio, and the arranger-based performance is fully interactive rather than being limited to the static playback that a workstation is limited to. And yet my arranger can still do pretty much every function that the workstation can - the primary limitation being the lack of digital outputs on my 9000 Pro for recording purposes (newer arrangers should address that).

 

Also, my 9000 Pro allows me to call up songs either by registration settings for quick access or through a Music DataBase function where literally thousands of songs like "Believe" can be stored by song name and recalled by name or song style. So for example, there is a factory registration called "Proud of Mary" that instantly calls up the appropriate rhythms and patches for playing "Proud Mary" on the fly. Requests anyone?

 

This is why I'm hooked on arrangers...

[MikeT156]

Pretty cool Pro. Question, what do you do if your Yamaha 9000 Pro takes a dump on the gig? See, I had assumed that you weren't setting up sequences and were primarily using your Arranger to just follow the parts you play live. Not so, as I see. Hell, you're going through more effort than I am to do "static" sequences.

 

One of the things that's comes into play is just how much time has to be spent on logistics to do a show. I know I spent one summer programming about 40 sequences, the patches and drum parts that were necessary to do the songs live. I was playing gigs then too, and working on new tunes during the day. Very time consuming. The other side of that is, you sure knew the song and every bloody part by the time it was finished. I'm thinking about getting some GM sequences to try on my Motif ES so I can spend more time practicing and less time programming. God knows I can sure use it.

 

Mike T.

[SilverDragonSoun]

I owned a Korg i40 for a few months and really it. Unfortunately I was unable to keep it. I also had a Yamaha DGX 500 for a while but I outgrew it and needed something with more substance. The Yamaha Tyros is an incredible machine and I played around with one a few times at a music store. I can really see how it would fit the need of many musicians but for what I do it was just to much money to spend. I was amazed at the professional sounds and features now found on so many of the top arrangers. People used to think of arrangers as second rate keyboards. After listening to the top ones of the past 5 years or so, that is definately not the case.

[JimmyJimJim]

I'm really not an arranger fan, but clocked in some time on both the Roland G-70 and the Korg PA1XPro (or whatever) and was really impressed... didn't get really stuck into the complex stuff, but was quite impressed by both of them. The G-70 in particular was a really well designed instrument in terms of layout and build, the touch screen was well made and a clear navigation tool, but you also had quick access to a lot of parameters on the panel. Sounds were great (see the organ mode which is basically an inbuilt VK8), and the one thing that impressed me the most was the intelligence of some of the accompaniments. I can't remember their marketing terms for the technology, but when it's scanning chord progressions, the bass lines move between particularly smoothly using inversions etc, pads in particular won't make unnatural chord movements but will hold parts of voicings between the chords. Not bad! Also, some of the strum patterns, fills etc almost sounded like they'd been straight sampled. Cool.

 

Some nice instruments if you're into that sort of thing i guess.

[Gulliver]

Arranger Keyboards might be pretty useful for performing covers at weddings and such. Can't imagine I'd use one for my own stuff though...

[resigned]

Originally posted by MikeT156:

Pretty cool Pro. Question, what do you do if your Yamaha 9000 Pro takes a dump on the gig? See, I had assumed that you weren't setting up sequences and were primarily using your Arranger to just follow the parts you play live. Not so, as I see. Hell, you're going through more effort than I am to do "static" sequences.

 

Mike T.

Thanks. It's true - sometimes I go to a lot of effort to prepare some songs for use as arranger performances. Sometimes I just go with some standard programmed factory settings too... it depends.

 

As to the keyboard taking a complete dump - it hasn't happened so far at least during a gig. There have been times when I believe I have overloaded the keyboard's processor. It's possible to ask too much of the processor at one time and the result is kind of a "glitch" or skip in the rhythm. I'm careful not to press too many buttons at once while performing. I think the fact that you can do this may be one of the reasons Yamaha discontinued this keyboard (along with poor sales). Also the keyboard OS has froze while loading data from the hard drive, usually on boot up. Rebooting fixes the problem, and it's a rare problem at that, however I do own two 9000 Pros that are exact duplicates of each other (added PLG cards, hard drives, sample RAM etc.) just in case. I generally keep one setup in my studio for practice and one on stage or in my van.

 

While I'm singing the praises of high-end arrangers, let me mention their biggest fault IMHO: they can't follow serious piano playing. Even the best of them have trouble with this. The problem stems from the arranger trying to follow left hand arpeggiated playing - it tries to follow too closely and usually triggers the wrong chorded accompaniment. I think people who are used to playing two-handed organ (using the left hand to hold chords) probably have less difficulty with this than pianists. Several keyboards have some schemes to address this with an "intelligent arranger" setup but I have yet to find one that works perfectly. So I still use static midi files for backing often and interspace freeform arranger songs or jams into my performance list to give me non-programmed areas to stretch out and fool around in.

 

BTW: I should mention that arranger software exists if you'd like to fool around with turning your keyboard and computer into an arranger. Probably the most popular such software right now is called OMB or One Man Band by Jos Maas. It's up to version 8 and uses Yamaha accompaniment styles. Also Jammer Pro Live is arranger software that follows your chord input. Both of these programs have downloadable demos and virtual tours from their websites. Enjoy!

[MikeT156]

Jim:

 

I think you can expect to run into problems at some point with any piece of equipment, most notably, the problems you pointed out. But Yamaha gear is rock solid. Some of their equipment I bought back in the seventies became obsolete rather than ever failing, and still works great to this day. That was a big determining factor when I went shopping for a more up to date 88 note KB last summer and bought the Motif ES.

 

I've been playing around with some of the arranger features in the Motif ES lately, and have been jammin' with a performance patch that's a split Rhodes/bass with the ARP playing the left hand bass parts when I give it the chords. It does wonders for honing up on some riffs and is the area where I can do some impromptu playing on a gig without being married to a static sequenced song. Not everything I do is sequenced. I still like to just play the piano and sing, or piano with drums, or Rhodes/bass/drums and sing. I don't want to be a jukebox, but when people want to get up and dance, those are the times I need to sound like a band. The sequenced songs I have work well and it ends up being the majority of my show.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Mike T.