Jode Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Phaeton, you should try living in the "Bible Belt" of the southern United States. It's one of the tradeoffs we have for all this sunshine, good eatin' and clean livin'. If the only time you've run into this mentality was at the Harry Potter movie, an event sure to draw them out like flies to molasses, then you ain't seen nothin' yet. My favorite was the billboard outside a Pentecostal church; it was a very expressionistic Jesus, painted from the foot of the cross so he loomed over you with his arms outstretched, and a caption reading, "JESUS LOVES YOU *THIS* MUCH!" Personally, I think that in a world wrecked by teen pregnancy, absent fathers, failing schools, declining morals, and manners on the wane, there are bigger problems than a fairytale about a goodhearted young boy that encourages children by the millions to put down the Playstation controller and pick up a book. And Matt C., not to get sidetracked into a theological argument, but... [quote]Originally posted by matt C: [QB]For example, I am a Catholic and will say it proudly. What do you think would happen if I told my cevout parents that I was reading the Torah to expand my horizons? They'd blow up, forgetting in the process that Christianity is supposed to be tolerant of other religions. QB][/quote]They wouldn't mind - the Torah is, for the most part, the Old Testament. However, Christianity, if taken literally, is NOT supposed to be tolerant of other religions. It is tolerant of the MEMBERS of other religions, but, "Thou shalt have no other god before me." "No man may enter the kingdom of Heaven but through me." It is entirely possible, even required, to be tolerant in order to call yourself a Christian, but there's a reason why that commandment comes first. Some people apply this only to themselves and stay mindful and tolerant of other people's beliefs, and others take this to mean that they should personally set out to convert the world. You can't gloss over this when trying to figure out the morons on the street corner in front of Phaeton's local movie house, or the ones who used to always be on the corner in front of the Hardee's in Conyers, GA when I lived there. They get bored, and they want to do some proselytizing, and along comes this popular fantasy book and movie about a witch. They go picketing on Saturday night, which serves two purposes: they can feel good about themselves and rack up some more heaven points, and it distracts them from the urge to go dancing instead like sinful secular heathens do on Saturday night. Don't forget that practicing any other religion or heathen discipline is a SEE-yun, and that to wallow in the occult world of Harry Potter or any other book about witchcraft is to risk the fires of HAY-ull! (Assemblies of God phonetic spelling added for clarity) Christ defended a prostitute against an angry mob, saying, "Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone." These days some of his purported followers who do the stoning - in his name. I'm sure he couldn't be prouder. "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-brm Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 You're mixing the Ten Commandments with Gospel and giving exlusivity to Christianity? Judaism, Christianity and Islam all proscribe to worshipping one god, and it's the same god. I'm sure there are other monotheistic religions that are likely referring to the same god (let's call her Audrey), I just can't think of one right now. It's OK to tempt fate. Just don't drop your drawers and moon her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realtrance Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Windows. rt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Jotown: [b]Originally posted by Jotown: quote: "Don't kid yourself into thinking this is just a fringe thing. Maybe you are not like that, but much of your Christian brethren certainly are." Well, I'm sorry but it *IS* a fringe thing. But if you want to think otherwise, it's your life. __________________________________________________ I did not mean to offend you, or argue with you, but if you want to call the republican party a "fringe group", as you say, "it's your life."[/b][/quote][i]Wha???[/i] When did I say anything about the republican party??? Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Charlie-brm: [b]I'm sure there are other monotheistic religions that are likely referring to the same god.[/b][/quote] [quote]Originally posted by realtrance: [b]Windows.[/b][/quote][img]http://www.lucasforums.com/images/smilies/lol.gif[/img] LOL!!!!!!! [img]http://www.lucasforums.com/images/smilies/rotfl.gif[/img] That was too funny!!! The sad part is that we're forced to kneel at the alter... Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Not to pour petrol on the fire, but it strikes me that many christians are very beligerant about their views. I wouldn't dream of going up to one and pestering them about MY views, telling them that: There is no god, doesn't exist ... just a big myth dreamt up millenia ago and refined to be used as a form of social control and to make people feel better about living in an infinite universe where they will die and this will, in the grand scheme of things, be of absolutely ZERO consequence ... so look on the bright side, live for the moment, trust your instincts and make sure you enjoy yourself. Nah, I don't do that but many christians have sought to bore the life out of me, unprovoked, with their views. Why do they feel the need to share their truth when I'm perfectly happy with my truth and share it only with those who ask? Caveat: not ALL christians, obviously! Many adopt a similar attitude to me and keep their faith out of other people's faces. Not all, but many. "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roto Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 I subscribe to the theory that there is a thin line between being devoutly religous and being mentally ill. These are the kind of people that end up in cults. Jotown: was your brother a wild and crazy guy earlier in his life or was he always really straight laced? Most born-agains I've met did some crazy shit when they were younger and they find religion and go overboard with that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 I have a few friends that are active christians and none of them find Harry Potter or LOTR offensive in any way. If someone can actually find any hint of homosexuality in these stories then they themselves are probably looking for it specificy and should probably question their own sexuality. I feel for the poor fool who tries to pull this kind of shit on me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Bottom line: fundamentalism is equally vile regardless of who is doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Roto: [b]Jotown: was your brother a wild and crazy guy earlier in his life or was he always really straight laced? Most born-agains I've met did some crazy shit when they were younger and they find religion and go overboard with that too.[/b][/quote]I've seen this often. But then again, isn't this by default? If you were Christian and never did anything really bad, then there's really no reason for you to be born again, is there? I have seen that born again Christians tend to be the ones who get in your face about religion and I've met a handful. aka riffing Double Post music: Strip Down http://rimspeed.com http://loadedtheband.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Dr. Flaven: [b]I have a few friends that are active christians and none of them find Harry Potter or LOTR offensive in any way. If someone can actually find any hint of homosexuality in these stories then they themselves are probably looking for it specificy and should probably question their own sexuality.[/b][/quote]Someone posted that the homosexuality was pointed more towards the author of HP rather than the actual stories. OTOH, I'm not so sure about LOTR. You're telling me two Hobbits spending a lot of time alone didn't experiment?!? :D :D :D I'm soooo bad! ;) aka riffing Double Post music: Strip Down http://rimspeed.com http://loadedtheband.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Charlie-brm: [b]Judaism, Christianity and Islam all proscribe to worshipping one god, and it's the same god. I'm sure there are other monotheistic religions that are likely referring to the same god (let's call her Audrey), I just can't think of one right now.[/b][/quote]Tell it to the evangelicals and the foot-washers and ask them if THEY think it's the same God. That's the point I'm making here. "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim P. Dyndale Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Well, since both Christians and Muslims worship the God that the Hebrews worship, yes it's the same God. HOWEVER: All three groups have a VERY different impression of this God. There are lots of differences, but the main thing that seperates Christianity from the other two is that we believe that God consists of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. The other two consider that to be blasphemy(spelled wrong?)... Christians believe in Jesus, and Jesus told us that God consists of these three, and so we believe that it is so. Simple as that :) -Joachim Dyndale -------------------- Einstein: The difference between genius and stupidity is: Genius has limits My Blog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Well, Jesus told me he was just messing with your heads :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Joachim P. Dyndale: [b]but the main thing that seperates Christianity from the other two is that we believe that God consists of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. [/b][/quote]Well, that's not really the "main thing". The "main thing" is that Christ was born and fulfilled the 'Law' of Judaism. He was the 'One' that the Jews were (and still are) waiting for. He was God in the flesh, and his life served to fulfill prophecy, to teach us by setting an example for us to follow, and ultimately to sacrifice himself on our behalf to atone for wrongs we have all committed -thus bridging the gap between humanity and God. It's really a beautiful thing. And it's a shame that even some of those who choose not to believe it, don't show a little more appreciation for the sentiment behind it. The stories are all true (by 'true' I mean historically correct. I understand that the truth of his divinity is a matter of faith). There are MANY manuscripts separated by both time and distance and the differences between them are really quite minimal and do not alter the meaning of the message. But please don't take my word for it. You should find that out for yourselves if it's something you are wondering about. Christ was expected to arrive like a king. Instead he was born in a barn. The religious zealots of the time were outraged by his subversiveness, his compassion. He spent his time among those whom nobody wanted or cared for: the terminally ill, the prostitutes, the low end of the working-class. As God in the flesh, he stood before humanity and said he had not come to be served, but rather to serve. Not arrogant or condemning in any way. Rather, a total picture of what it really means to love. How very different from the picture most have about Christians today. He was ultimately tortured and put to death for who he was or was claiming to be. But he DID have opportunities to walk away from it, and no good reason NOT to walk away from having to endure a slow extremely painful death -unless he believed -with every ounce of his being- that what he was claiming was the truth. So we are left with the question of whether or not he was a total liar (a lie that he'd be willing to die for), or mentally insane, or really who he claimed to be. We as Christians believe that he was who he said he was, and we attempt to follow his example -not in an outward fashion for the world to see, but in a private and personal way which lets God grow us in a way that brings us closer to him (I use the term 'him' because it is my only point of reference. I really don't know if God is male, female, bi-gendered, or non-gendered; nor do I care. I only know that God is God.) This is how Christians are different -it's the whole 'Christ' thing. You won't find much of that in Islam or Judaism. And by the way, just because someone says they're a Christian doesn't mean they are, or that they're acting like one when you see them -which is kind of how this whole thread got started. Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-brm Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I didn't want to bump this to the top but I feel the way Super 8 put across his view was very well done, no matter what your point of view. Super 8, I think you have learned to lead by example. You must have lucked out with some decent preachers and parents in your day. It's OK to tempt fate. Just don't drop your drawers and moon her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anifa Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 So not to get anything misconstrued here; I was raised to believe in the Trinity, and the salvation of Christ. It is a foundation that I have not given up on. I do, however, believe that MANY, MANY people utilize the bible in a cut and paste method to use AGAINST persons as a weapon. These people would rather pick up stones and throw them at the sinful ,rather than to use those very stones to pave the road that leads the way to righteousness for those who have lost their way. These are the so-called Christians that give Christianity a bad name; and they are also the very same ones that drive the curious away from finding true divinity. One mentioned fellowship earlier; I do not consider Prosperity Preaching to be fellowship. When people flock in droves to a congregation too large to recognize a face in the crowd so that they can BUY their ticket into heaven; it loses the element of spirituality. There are faithful church goers that never miss a 10% tithe or a Sunday service that walk out of the church to meet their adulterer/adulteress, or to go bury their faces in their booze, or to go home and BEAT their children, or beat their wife's, or to go home and molest their children, or they step into their office the next day to screw their partner or another business contact out of his money; these people then go to church on Sunday and scream hallelujah and scorn upon those "OTHER" sinners. Fellowship comes in getting to know individuals and learning their strengths and weaknesses, their abilities and disabilities; it becomes a family of helping one another and no one goes without, regardless of race, social class, or age! How many LICENSED MINISTERS are there that capitalize on the tax benefits of a non-profit organization status; and yet they never grace any church with their presence? Not even as a member of a congregation. As I said before, I have seen the life of ministry from both sides of the fence. Now, I challenge anyone out there to find a church where NONE of these sins exist and are actually not prevalent in many cases, and you'll find a TRUE born again Christian! Again I say, I have always, DO now, and will always believe in God and Salvation; but show me his grace in a setting where people can congregate without condemnation of others and you will show me the presence of Jesus Christ the Almighty God. Nuff said! You can take the man away from his music, but you can't take the music out of the man. Books by Craig Anderton through Amazon Sweetwater: Bruce Swedien\'s "Make Mine Music" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim P. Dyndale Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Anifa and Super-8: Very well said indeed! And Super-8, I totally agree with you. I was merely trying to point out one of the major differences between what God is, not how he acts. This is a music forum, but every once in a while it's good to discuss other subjects that are important to us as well. This discussion has been pretty straight-forward and to the point. No flaming or other such nonsense. I greatly appreciate this. A serious discussion about such matters is something that's often difficult to find on the internet. Thanks everyone. -Joachim Dyndale -------------------- Einstein: The difference between genius and stupidity is: Genius has limits My Blog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulliver Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I always feel a kind of... sorry for such people. It seems like they can't find anything positive in their lives except faith. Truly sad (and sometimes frightening). I am back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evets Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 [quote]So we are left with the question of whether or not he was a total liar (a lie that he'd be willing to die for), or mentally insane, or really who he claimed to be. We as Christians believe that he was who he said he was, and we attempt to follow his example -not in an outward fashion for the world to see, but in a private and personal way which lets God grow us in a way that brings us closer to him (I use the term 'him' because it is my only point of reference. I really don't know if God is male, female, bi-gendered, or non-gendered; nor do I care. I only know that God is God.) [/quote]Straight out of C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity" I believe...a close friend of Tolkien as has already been mentioned. Something probably should be mentioned about the four stages of spiritual growth described by M. Scott Peck in "Further Along the Road Less Traveled". It helped me understand a little about my own growth as I moved away from so-called stage two fundamentalism. Fundamentals need to be tolerated because it really is a stage that most Christians grow out of if they pay attention. As soon as Christians begin to understand that scripture is full of Holy myth (read your Lewis)that is sometimes layers deep, the outer shell of fundamentalism quickly falls away and a new creature free to move and experience on its own emerges, IMHO. More shades and colors, less black and white. -Steve ----------------------------------- Sometimes ya gotta find out what it ain't, to find out what it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Anifa, Your first paragraph is so dead on with my feelings. I especially like: [quote]Originally posted by Anifa: [b]These people would rather pick up stones and throw them at the sinful ,rather than to use those very stones to pave the road that leads the way to righteousness for those who have lost their way.[/b][/quote]You should make it into a song! Also, doesn't Bible have Jesus saying something like "Let those who have no sin cast the first stone." Do those protesting folks believe they are free of sin? aka riffing Double Post music: Strip Down http://rimspeed.com http://loadedtheband.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evets Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by riffing: [b]Do those protesting folks believe they are free of sin?[/b][/quote]Self-righteousness seems to be a human condition. Ex-smokers are among the worst. Our own persuasion at any given moment always seems to be the right one. People forget that "forgiveness of sin" and "free of sin" are two different things. -Steve ----------------------------------- Sometimes ya gotta find out what it ain't, to find out what it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by evets: [b]People forget that "forgiveness of sin" and "free of sin" are two different things.[/b][/quote]I like that! This thread rocks! :thu: aka riffing Double Post music: Strip Down http://rimspeed.com http://loadedtheband.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianT Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 So if a black male over 40 years old were to grief you at the movie theater, would that lead you to assume all African-Americans over 40 are lame? If a white teenager were to grief you at the movie theater, would that lead you to assume all Caucasian teenagers are lame? Substitute the word "Jewish", or "Arab" or "Muslim" or "Hindu" or "gay" or "lesbian" or, well you get the idea. Substitute any of those words in place of the word "Christian" in this entire thread and reread. This place would go ballistic with outrage if the same broad brush strokes were used to create such negative stereotypes about any of the groups above. But it sure seems like it's open season on Christians, all lumped together as "right-wing fundamentalist whackos". Where I come from, inferring negatives about an entire group based upon personal bias is called [b]prejudice[/b]. Check in the mirror for your own hypocrisy, o' ye liberal crusaders. Regards, Brian T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim P. Dyndale Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Brian, good points. BUT: I think this thread has had a very good tone. Nobody has made any remarks about anyone or any group without firmly stating *why* they have that opinion. As stated, this thread rocks! Everyone has kept their cool and been serious and forthcoming. This is a very rare thing in regards to discussions about such matters. As I stated earlier: Thanks everyone! -Joachim Dyndale -------------------- Einstein: The difference between genius and stupidity is: Genius has limits My Blog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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