The Fusion and the Oasys

[TrancedelicBlues]

Some thoughts:

 

 

1. Really apples and oranges. Two different products by two different companies in two completely different situations.

 

2. Not apples and oranges at all. They both sample, they both do VA, they both do sequencing and audio recording, and they are both poised to grow in the future, depending on how they are received.

 

3. Both companies have radical marketing strategies, aimed at opposite ends of the spectrum. You could make the case that either strategy is brilliant, or the product of deranged thinking.

 

4. Both units are based on linux code, and both of them use microchips manufactured by somebody else.

 

5. They both remind me of the NeKo.

 

6. Neither of them hosts VSTs. Yet.

 

7. They both boast that they "play nice with others" in their promo materials. They're referring to computers, I think.

 

8. Far too many of us have spent far too much time thinking about them, considering that none of us can get our hands on either one of them yet.

[mildbill]

the Fusion rocks

 

check out the video here:

 

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=1924#

[MikeT156]

Mildbill:

 

That's incredible. Have the people from KORG listened to the new Alesis workstations and have they cut their prices yet?

 

After looking at the KB and hearing the demo, here's my brief take on it:

 

The KB controls sweeping layout is much better than what I thought it would be. The acoustic piano didn't sound as full bodied and balsy as my Motif ES, but it's by no means cheesey. The Rhodes piano sounded pretty good from what I heard of it. The strings sounded a lot better than expected. The FM sounded somewhat different than Yamaha's take on it, Alesis did a good job with it. The Physical modeling sounded very realistic, although the analog lead synth sounds seemed to be a bit more digital sounding than the ION. Real Audio in with your sequences, that would save my ass for playing live shows in areas where I need backup singers for certain songs in addition to the harmonizer I use now.

 

The kicker is the price point. 1999 and 1699 with an internal HD drive. I just don't get it. How can Alesis put out gear with all thise functions for that low a price? I'm not saying everything in it is top of the line soundwise, but hell, it didn't sound like some cheesy knock off either. For the price they're selling it for, even if you use it for a few of your favorite sounds, the sequencer, and the audio, it would be worth the price. Alesis has done it again. Good for them, how many American synth companies do we have?

 

Cheers,

 

Mike T.

[LGK_Dude]

Originally posted by TrancedelicBlues:

6. Neither of them hosts VSTs. Yet.

Do any keyboards host VST's? If so, please point me towards as much info as possible, as I would love to play my VST's live from a keyboard WITHOUT using a computer!!

[2go]

Yes, there is "Neko" that can host VST.

 

You can check it at www.openlabs.com

 

Best

[Junkstyle]

In the demo he said that they licensed "The Holy Grail Piano". Isn't that a VST? or did they convert it into something else?

[TrancedelicBlues]

Oh, that video--not much fun to watch on my 800 mhz P2 W98 box. I left it downloading and went to bed.

 

Woke up at 3AM and tried to watch. It kept stopping and starting, leaving poor Erik Norlander frozen in mid-sentence every ten seconds or so. Not fun for either of us.

 

Then it just stopped in the middle of the VA demonstration... maybe it was still downloading and lost the connection? I dunno... so anyway I didn't get to view the FM or PM part of the movie.

 

But what I did see impressed me. The piano is very rich, superb, and awesome and the Rhodes is beautiful and dreamy, just the way I like it. The solo string ensemble was very sweet sounding. Sounded like a pretty good organ in there, too, during the opening song of the demo. I really want some more information about this thing now, but based on what I have seen, I'm absolutely going to buy one.

 

The VA sounded more Nord-ish than Ion-ish, but to my ears that's a good thing. Anyway, I liked the way it sounded. The filter resonance was beautiful.

 

Well, I didn't get to see the last half of the video but based on what I have seen I am absolutely sold on this thing already.

[Steve Force]

Thanks for the Fusion link.

 

I didn't notice the price prior to watching the video, so as I watch it was wondering how many thousand of U.S. dollars this unit cost.

 

When I heard it was less than $2k I was impressed--I paid around $2300 for my new Ensoniq TS-10 10 (?) years ago..

 

Am really curious to see how this unit compares to "comparable" ones.

 

Again, thanks for the link and for the informed opinions!

[cnegrad]

I don't know, I'm not blown away. If you look at it from the standpoint of bang-for-the-buck, I won't argue with you. It does have a lot going on for the money. But forget the audio recording and price for a minute. Does it's sound really improve upon what's come before? Do you hear it and say, "yeah, it's sounds are a definite improvment in the rompler world"? Yes, it's good to have yet another choice in the market. Competition is good; particularly given the Fusion's price-features. But I don't see it's synth sounds as qualifying as a Motif-Fantom-Triton killer.

[TrancedelicBlues]

Originally posted by cnegrad:

I don't know, I'm not blown away. If you look at it from the standpoint of bang-for-the-buck, I won't argue with you. It does have a lot going on for the money. But forget the audio recording and price for a minute. Does it's sound really improve upon what's come before? Do you hear it and say, "yeah, it's sounds are a definite improvment in the rompler world"? Yes, it's good to have yet another choice in the market. Competition is good; particularly given the Fusion's price-features. But I don't see it's synth sounds as qualifying as a Motif-Fantom-Triton killer.

I think it could be a step forward in the Rompler world, and I'll tell you why: the ROM isn't set in stone, so there's more room for what you want. It only has 64mb of flash ROM, with an option to add 128 more megabytes--not sure if that's flash rom too--but it also has a 40gb hard drive--and they are going to make a CDR drive for it, as well. So I can load up on orchestral textures and choirs and ambient atmospheres that you might find boring, whereas somebody else can load up on beats and basses and weird synth sounds and special fx--stuff that I would never use. Maybe we'll overlap in the area of organs and electric pianos. And we'll both have sounds that inspire us while getting maximum use out of our resources.

 

I was recently looking into getting SampleTank 2XL . That's about four and a half gigabytes of sounds, and the demos sound really cool. Thats roughly about 20 times as much sound ROM as a Triton Extreme or Motif ES. And there's stuff in there like 50mb string sections that would be too big to squeeze into a regular Rompler's ROM, but which sound incredible.

 

I'm putting those plans on hold now. Alesis may release that much material for the Fusion; it may even ship with a sound library that size on its hard drive. This would be a "definite improvement in the Rompler world" and it is driving me nuts to wait and see what Alesis has planned.

 

Anyway, even if that doesn't pan out, I've never had a sampler or an FM synth or a digital multitrack recorder, all of which are very enticing. And the Fusion is inexpensive enough that I could get SampleTank too, someday, if I want. There's no law that says you have to have all your eggs in one basket.

 

I really wish Alesis would release more information about its plans for this thing.

 

Peace.

[MikeT156]

Trance:

 

I'm sure they will. NAMM is a great place to test the waters with MI folks. They can sit back and listen to the buzz.

 

The FUSION is targeted for the market niche that Alesis has been very successful at of late, the budget player. I'd say there's a hell of a lot more people in that category than in the Oasys category. Let's face it, the Oasys is a great sounding workstation, the Fusion might be acceptable for the price.

 

Mike T.

[Pim]

The Fusion video with Eric Norlander is great fun. He plays a piano piece which I must have heard for a thousand times: it was a small part (I believe the intro) of the QS series demo song.

 

The build in HD recorder appeals to me a lot.

[aliengroover]

Originally posted by MikeT156:

Trance:

 

The FUSION is targeted for the market niche that Alesis has been very successful at of late, the budget player. Mike T.

That's always been Alesis' thing. Other than the Andy, darn near everything they've ever put out has been for the little guy.

 

I've been saying to some friends that the rumored price of $3000 for their "high end" workstation was too much, but if they put it at around $2000-2400 I'd start to get interested. But at $2000 list for the 88, and $1699 for the 61...sheesh, if it sounds good, sign me up.

 

I think it is definitely a leg up on the competition just by the features, and specifically the huge amount of flash ROM. The VA is also a huge plus, as is the physical modeling. This thing lends itself to crafting your own sound out of a workstation, in a variety of ways. I think the downsides are acceptable (max RAM and less ROM than the comp), especially considering the price.

 

I am really looking forward to this piece hitting the stores.

Peace

[Synthguy]

I did notice a lot of cheeze in the sounds, like the piano in certain ranges, and the strings. However I'm not really basing that on anything since this net-fidelity here. I'm sure the thing in person does sound much better. Besides, I have no doubt that Alesis is going to try to steal some piano thunder from Yamaha.

 

On top of that, an 80 voice VA synth?? Even if it sounds more like a Nord, which I doubt, that isn't a bad thing at all. Erik might have even programmed it in that direction so as to stand out in the mix like a Nord does very well. I bet it sounds almost identical to the Ion, hopefully with some new filter models. And adding some basic but powerful FM is a terrific touch. The wind modelling synth is a terrific icing on an already fattening cake.

 

How on earth did Alesis pull that off for less than two grand?! There must be a VLSI the size of a paperback in there! If they don't sell a few million of these by fall, it'll be because they can't keep up with demand. I want a Fantom X, Karma and some analog beastie, but... heck, I'm probably going to settle on this monster for a while. Till the next Korg workstation comes out.

[TrancedelicBlues]

Originally posted by Sir Basil:

I did notice a lot of cheeze in the sounds, like the piano in certain ranges, and the strings. However I'm not really basing that on anything since this net-fidelity here. I'm sure the thing in person does sound much better. Besides, I have no doubt that Alesis is going to try to steal some piano thunder from Yamaha.

 

On top of that, an 80 voice VA synth?? Even if it sounds more like a Nord, which I doubt, that isn't a bad thing at all. Erik might have even programmed it in that direction so as to stand out in the mix like a Nord does very well. I bet it sounds almost identical to the Ion, hopefully with some new filter models. And adding some basic but powerful FM is a terrific touch. The wind modelling synth is a terrific icing on an already fattening cake.

 

How on earth did Alesis pull that off for less than two grand?! There must be a VLSI the size of a paperback in there! If they don't sell a few million of these by fall, it'll be because they can't keep up with demand. I want a Fantom X, Karma and some analog beastie, but... heck, I'm probably going to settle on this monster for a while. Till the next Korg workstation comes out.

80 voices of analog??? I sure hope you're right--where did you see that? I am craving all the info about this thing I can get right now, so please tell me everything you know. Seriously, I was assuming maybe 16 voices. So that's totally cool.

 

Alesis is not basing this thing on a custom VLSI chip; it is built with a chip made by these folks , the coldfire processor . [disclaimer--these links appear to be written in English, but they're way over my head. Good luck with them. ]

 

According to Rollerator over at Harmony Central, "--the Ion uses a different chip set from the Fusion, so it can't be the same. The chip in the Ion is an Alesis custom chip."

 

Now, I love the sound of the Ion, but I am prepared to be open-minded about this. Rollerator doesn't seem to think they sound alike, but I'm with you, Sir Basil--there have got to be some similarities.

 

Anyway, I read somewhere that the Nord synths have the most accurate-looking saw, square, and pulse waves of any synth if you hook them up to an oscilloscope. So people can say they're too "digital sounding" but I think they sound really pure. The ION is more advanced, has more character, and nails vintage synths much better--but if the Fusion sounds more like a Nord, I can live with that. I like them.

 

I may be in the minority, but I am really jonesing to learn more about the sample-playback side of the Fusion. Please tell me all that you know about it.

 

As for the so-called "cheeze" factor--the Fusion is inexpensive enough that I am willing to forgive it much quirkiness. Quirky electronic instruments often become beloved cult objects anyway; remember the Mirage and the sp1200?. Like you, I think Alesis is going to have a monster hit on their hands. They're going to sell a ton of these things to guitar players and songwriters and bedroom/garage musicians of all stripes.

 

Oh, one more thing--in the early moments of the video, Erik Norlander described the built-in sequencer as "powerful." Gotta love that...

 

Peace.

[burningbusch]

I played it several times at NAMM. There were only a handful of presets available. I thought the ac. piano was quite good but the other ROM sound were sub par. Still, given the limited number of sounds available it's too early to tell. There were only a few presets for the other types of synthesis and they sounded as expected.

 

I was not too fond of the overall feel of the synth and did not like the 88-note keyboard at all as the action was very light and the thumb on my right hand kept catching on the key lips. I would have prefered that Alesis had set a bit higher target price point and built an instrument that felt higher quality overall.

 

So no the Fusion is not something that interests me but that's not to dis someone else who thinks it's great. I think the comparisons to the OASYS are ridicules in many ways. They were designed for completely different audiences. I also think many people will look at the Fusion when it comes out and still purchase a Triton, Motif or Fantom.

 

Busch.

[Sergievsky]

I need to check the Fusion out more carefully because that demo video wasn't impressive at all- soundwise I mean. Feature-wise the thing looks like a winner, but I wish he would have picked a different set of patches to demo. The piano did sound better than I expected, though again from what he played I couldn't tell how it would sound on, say, a pop ballad with multiple dynamics.

 

Anyway, I know demos are just that, demos. There's a lot more behind the product than what can be shown in such a short span.That said, I'm looking forward to downloading some audio mp3s (hopefully mp4) on their website as soon as it's up.

 

Ya know, since the title of the thread is Fusion and Oasys, the announcement of these two are making me appreciate what I already have (Triton Rack, Fantom XR, Proteus 2000 w/ 3exp boards, Atmosphere and Gigastudio). I know it's nice to have that integration that the new synths have, but I wonder if, for me anyway, the price is worth it. Alesis at least makes it something to consider.

[TrancedelicBlues]

Originally posted by burningbusch:

I played it several times at NAMM. There were only a handful of presets available. I thought the ac. piano was quite good but the other ROM sound were sub par. Still, given the limited number of sounds available it's too early to tell. There were only a few presets for the other types of synthesis and they sounded as expected.

 

I was not too fond of the overall feel of the synth and did not like the 88-note keyboard at all as the action was very light and the thumb on my right hand kept catching on the key lips. I would have prefered that Alesis had set a bit higher target price point and built an instrument that felt higher quality overall.

 

So no the Fusion is not something that interests me but that's not to dis someone else who thinks it's great. I think the comparisons to the OASYS are ridicules in many ways. They were designed for completely different audiences. I also think many people will look at the Fusion when it comes out and still purchase a Triton, Motif or Fantom.

 

Busch.

Well, thanks, man.

[burningbusch]

Originally posted by Sergievsky:

Ya know, since the title of the thread is Fusion and Oasys, the announcement of these two are making me appreciate what I already have (Triton Rack, Fantom XR, Proteus 2000 w/ 3exp boards, Atmosphere and Gigastudio).

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. It's not like you're missing out on a whole new type of synthesis.

 

Busch.

[Florin Andrei]

Originally posted by TrancedelicBlues:

The VA sounded more Nord-ish than Ion-ish, but to my ears that's a good thing. Anyway, I liked the way it sounded. The filter resonance was beautiful.

I've heard from someone who went to NAMM and actually played the thing that the VA on the Fusion is a "souped-up Ion". Whatever that means...

[TrancedelicBlues]

Originally posted by Florin Andrei:

I've heard from someone who went to NAMM and actually played the thing that the VA on the Fusion is a "souped-up Ion". Whatever that means...

Good to hear.

[b3keys]

For $8K, the Oasys should be able to make me a cappuchino! I'm really not impressed with either product.

 

My Kurzweil K2661, with sample cards and VAST is better, IMHO.

[Synthguy]

A few more quick thoughts.

 

Alesis isn't going to short-sheet their flagship. They may have loaded it up with whatever preliminary sounset they have, so other than the piano which has already been out a while, they may still be working to get the thing to shine properly.

 

A souped up Ion is exactly what I expect from them. The FM I'd imagine is reminiscent of the Yamaha V50 which I own and sounds really nice for four-op FM. But it's clearly more flexible from the modulations that Erik put it through, and it might be much more potent.

 

I'd expect something impressive in the effects department too, something of a mastering suite to go along with the recorder section. Maybe something like a few Wedges and a Q20.

 

Oh, and I have to agree with some of you, that is one dopey looking panel.

 

I did manage to see the entire Korg Oasys demo with Jack "wired" Hotop - what a clown. But what talent! When I finally heard the ending piece he did, a part of which is the loop at korg.com, I changed my mind. Compared to it, the Fusion is kind of like a super Casio. I want an Oasys of some kind really bad!

[bax]

Alesis isn't going to short-sheet their flagship. They may have loaded it up with whatever preliminary sounset they have, so other than the piano which has already been out a while, they may still be working to get the thing to shine properly.

+1

 

Alesis surely knows that they needed to show a true, honest-to-God working model at almost any cost or they would get caught in their previous "vaporware" negative PR loop. I'd be happy to wait for this if they really take their time (do it right, they can do it baybay... um, sorry ) and get the build quality and especially sound quality nailed the first time. I love my Ion, but I waited a *really* long time to get it due to build issues (and even then I bought a B-stock unit that I knew had already been back to Alesis to be completely reworked). I for one don't want a repeat of that and I'm sure Alesis is very cognizant of the fact that they have to treat this as a flagship and afford it all the considerations possible to make sure it is the glowing success that it has the potential to be in its target market.

 

I was a little disappointed to hear that it isn't exactly the Ion engine chipset/hardware-wise, but that might not be a bad thing if they found themselves a system that is easier to program, more flexible and has better long-term growth potential. They are certainly getting me excited with the idea of using those filters with samples and FM (and it is true 6-op FM, Sir Basil, so who knows about the possibilities of some kind of DX patch conversion at some point?). If they get those filters to sound just like the models in the Ion then we are set for a really fun ride. Alesis has some pretty decent effects (albeit budget, compared to Yamaha or Roland or Kurzweil) so it wouldn't surprise me if these are at least worthy of consideration too. I hope so anyway...

 

And yeah, it does look kinda dorky, but hopefully it will be more useable than it looks - only actually touching it and using it will tell for sure. I really would have hoped for more tactile controls (some sliders and a small ribbon would have *rocked*) especially considering all the different synthesis types they've got in there that are just begging for realtime control. Who knows, maybe they will make it such that you can reprogram all of the knob/button banks and get 16 each realtime buttons and knobs. It *is* just software, and not impossible to do...

 

Anyway, I'm a lot more excited about this than the OASYS in its current state. If I hit the lottery, that might be a different story. I REALLY hope that Korg puts out an OASYS2 card for the PC...that will sell big-time and depending upon quality of effects maybe even eat into the TC/UA/Creamware DSP market if they priced it right. Hell - they'd be still be selling them now if they'd invested in XP/OS X drivers and priced it competitively. Korg has a reputation for quality, so let's hope they take their OASYS technology and get it to the masses (but an $8k wonderstation certainly isn't gonna be it).

 

Thanks!

bax