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Review of Yamaha PLG150-AP


Jazz1642606857

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http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/009266.html

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by "The Pro"

--------------------------------------------

Last week when I posted my review of the PLG150-AP here I also crossposted it in the Motifator Plugboard forums. One of the reps from Yamaha immediately replied that the PLG150-AP will only play the raw sample data from the AP card - no voice data was included for the 9000 Pro. As soon as I had the chance, I installed the card in my Motif ES 8 and my faults with the sample transitions disappeared. In fact, the AP card in the Motif ES 8 sounds great - better than either it's own native "Full Grand" triple strike or the PLG150-PF. It's a beautiful mellow grand piano sound that I really like... good news for ES owners. The bad news is that the PLG150-AP sounds unpredictably different in other host instruments, unlike the PLG150-PF piano expansion card which sounds the same whether it is installed in a Motif ES or a 9000 Pro.

 

Clearly Yamaha knows the PLG150-AP won't sound good (or at least as good as it should) in the 9000 Pro but they market this card for use with this instrument anyway. The skimpy AP owner's manual doesn't tell you what to expect from each host instrument that is supposed to be compatible with the AP. Yamaha is practicing deceptive marketing here that borders on legal liability. It's one thing to stop supporting a discontinued keyboard but entirely another to make 9000 Pro owners believe they can add the kind of high-quality triple strike grand piano that they can get for the Motif ES. I would swear they have some kind of grudge against 9000 Pro owners.

 

If there is any gratification from all this besides having a nice update for my Motif ES 8, it is that a lot of Yamaha non-arranger customers feel the same way I do - many on the Motifator forum said that the PLG150-AP board should work fully in the 9000 Pro right out of the box if Yamaha is going to market the AP board for it. Yamaha reps haven't replied and I don;t expct that they will. I still recommend the PLG150-PF to 9000 Pro owners (I reinstalled mine) but as for any other PLG cards, including the PLG150-AP, buyer beware!

 

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Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and also helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Harry spends his time teaching jazz piano online and playing solo piano gigs.

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Stop disseminating roumors. This post from Motifator.com draws erronious conclusions apparently.

The guy's review was based on hearing only the raw sample data. The board dose not funcion fully when pluged into a Pro 9000 arranger type thingie.

 

Can we have some genuine Keyboard corner apraisals soon please!

I are an *******(CENSORED) too.
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Yeah... that does sound a little strange not hosting it on a Motif, but maybe that's his chosen instrument. But still, if it isn't fully implemented for a 9000, where is this guy's brain?

 

It still sounds like a very nice piano board, but let's hear something more authoritative, and used in a pro instrument like a Motif or S series.

This keyboard solo has obviously been tampered with!
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Originally posted by cnegrad:

That I did. But it's just a demo, so whatever...

cnegrad's response to a comment about the way "Blake's Bounce" demo was recorded. I think he can give a first hand critique on the PLG-150AP if he wants to.
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cnegrad, my post was based on the PLG-150AP thread when someone commented that "Blake's Bounce" was not a live performance because it was recorded with three parts - melody, chords and bass line. You responded right after that post and I made a wrong assumption that you recorded the tune. My apologies to you for my comments.

 

PS - the original post about the performance was edited out.

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Hi all. I am the author of the original post cited at the top of this thread, which I posted on the Motifator Plugboard forums originally.

 

I have since updated my post, and I can report that the PLG150-AP indeed sounds much different when used in the Motif ES 8... I can no longer detect the sample transitions that I was so disappointed with when the card was installed in my 9000 Pro. The AP card sounds full and natural, albeit a little mellower that you might expect when selecting the "CPGrand" sounds (there are other "Brite" and "Rock" sounds to choose from also). But to my ear the AP card is a better piano sound than the Motif ES' native "Full Grand" triple strike piano. I like the PLG150-AP much better now.

 

I now recommend tha AP for use with the Motif ES, but God only know what this card when sound like in any other host instrument. Why did I try it in a 9000 Pro? Because Yamaha markets this card for specifically for it. I use 9000 Pro's extensively on stage and the idea of adding a triple-strike piano to it seemed too good to be true... and it turned out it was. Imagine my surprise when a Yamaha rep immediately replied on the Motifator forum that the 9000 Pro would only play the raw data from the AP card - he knew this in advance! Yamaha is conducting false and misleading advertising in promoting the PLG150-AP for use with the 9000 Pro because it doesn't support it with voice data that would give the AP the quality sounds it has in other hosts. And the skimpy owner's manual that comes with the PLG150-AP doesn't breath a word about what to expect when you use the AP in a 9000 Pro (or much of anything else for that matter). Fortunately the card won't go to waste in my Motif ES 8 but I am still simmering over not being able to use it in the 9000 Pro.

 

Hope that clears things up.

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Pro,

 

Thanks for amending your original information; that clears things up.

 

Hey Jazz+,

 

May I recommend that you take this new update from "The Pro", and add it to the front of your first post at the top of this thread? It's a lot less misleading that way, and considerably more honest.

 

Mojazz,

 

Ah, NOW I remember! Yup, it was my comment, but not my demo. Don't sweat it; apology accepted.

 

Now if Guitar Center would just get one of these babies into my hands......

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So now we have to worry that it won't sound the same when plugged into any yamaha synth that supports plg boards? Doesn't that defeat the purpose? What about an S80? or Mu-whatever that uses these things? I liked the demos, but I'm not going to buy a Motif ES just so I can use it. Is it just the 9000 that has the problems?
Raul
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Yamaha just doesn't support the 9000 Pro very well... it's something of an unwanted stepchild to them. The PLG150-AP includes voice settings for the CS6x, CS6R, S30, S80, S90, Motif, Motif Rack and Motif ES. If you have a Yamaha synth (or soundcard like the SW1000XG) that takes PLG boards and it isn't in this list then you won't be able to get the full benefit of the card.
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Another thread by "The Pro" titled:

"Yamaha LIED about the PLG150-AP "

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=777791

 

Originally posted by The Pro:

-----------------------------------

"Yamaha LIED about the PLG150-AP

 

If you've followed my thread on the Motifator.com "Plugboards" forum (see "PLG150-AP - hands on review") then you've already seen this.

 

First, I was one of the first to get a PLG150-AP piano expansion borad from Keyfax last week and immediately installed it into my stage keyboard, a Yamaha 9000 Pro. Yamaha. in it's official press release for the PLG150-AP specifically says that the AP board is compatible with the 9000 Pro. Not so - it's only partially compatible. It turns out that Yamaha did not include any voice data for the 9000 Pro with the PLG150-AP. There is voice data on an included CD for the CS6X, CS6R, S30, S80, S90, Motif, Motif Rack and Motif ES. Without the voice data the AP board will only play the AP's raw sample data, which sounds dull and has obvious sample transitions.

 

I was obviously disappointed with the sound of the PLG150-AP in my 9000 Pro, so I posted my a review of the AP with the 9000 Pro as a host and got an immediate response from one of the Yamaha reps telling me the 9000 Pro would only play the raw sample data and wouldn't sound the same as when the board is used in a Motif ES. In other words, he knew that the AP/9000 Pro combo wouldn't sound right before the AP board ever hit the street! So I removed the AP from my 9000 Pro and put it into my Motif ES 8 and installed the voice data - sure enough, it sounds great and totally different from the way it sounded in my 9000 Pro.

 

Yamaha has gone out of it's way in the past to not support the 9000 Pro, an expensive and powerful keyboard which has been referred to as a "failed experiment" in private by Yamaha's reps. Even so, for them to market new products like the PLG150-AP as being compatible with the 9000 Pro knowing they haven't provided the necessary voice data for the AP to sound as it should is outright false advertising.

 

Fortunately the PLG150-AP has a home now in my Motif ES 8 and I think it's a better piano sound than the Mo's own triple-strike piano or the older piano expansion card the PLG150-PF. But for them to screw 9000 Pro owners by selling us the PLG150-AP is criminal.

 

Go ahead Mike Martin or any other Yamaha rep - make my day: explain this one..."

-------------------------------

End Quote

Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and also helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Harry spends his time teaching jazz piano online and playing solo piano gigs.

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So... your new pet peeve, the PLG 150-AP; First it was the P90/120/250, then the Nord Electro, then the Mackie SRM 350:s, now the PLG board; it´s not a perfect world, man! Some of these things may be flawed (i.e. the first batch of Mackies) from the beginning, but you seem to be doing your best to really bring them down. I´m not standing up in defense of Yamaha or anything, but don´t you think you´re being somewhat zealous? If you want to play bebop with a Rhodes sound, just get a Rhodes and a tube amp, it´s really that easy. If you want lightweight good sounding amplification, get a pair of Mackies and live with the downsides. Otherwise, just stay at home and play a piano! When you do that, I´ll be looking forward to the post where you say "the manual doesn´t state that these things have to be tuned regularly! Piano "Brand X" is a piece of crap!

 

;)

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Originally posted by Analogaddict:

If you want lightweight good sounding amplification, get a pair of Mackies and live with the downsides.

Or get a pair of FBT MaXx2a's (another product he's bashed). They are hands down the cleanest loudspeakers I've ever played through (with the exception of EAW passive wedges).

 

BTW, I am looking forward to some additional reviews of the PLG-150AP. I'm dying to get one fo my S90.

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I think The Pro has a legitimate beef. Truth in advertising is a good thing. False advertising, misleading advertising, half-true advertising, whatever you want to call it, only leads to pissed-off customers, and a negative word-of-mouth for the advertiser. I just don't see why it's necessary to do that. They could have easily said

 

"compatible with Motif, MotifES, 9000Pro*, etc., etc."

 

Then down below in fine print:

 

* only partially supported in 9000Pro. More details at www.yamaha.moredetailsaboutwhatever.com

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Originally posted by The Pro:

dbl post

;)

 

By the way davinwv, your posts on the FBT's have me 99% convinced. Too bad you seem seem to be the only one using them on this forum. I'd love to hear some other reviews.

 

Back to Yamaha.

"........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey, I just went over to Motifator.com messageboards, and read the thread with The Pro's inital review of the PLG150-AP in his 9000 Pro (thread's called "PLG150-AP - hands on review")

 

So, I noticed that some poster named "finger in yo ass" (hey don't blame me that's what he or she calls him/herself) pieced together one of Sir Jeebus's posts and one of my posts from this thread, and posted it over there as his/her own post.

 

How annoying that someone can't even bother to write their own posts, just copy and paste from someone else.

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  • 2 weeks later...

When a company like Yamaha makes a claim to its customers about the authenticity of product adaptability and performance, it should back its claim. I have never had any problem with past PLG cards and I would expect Yamaha to make the corrections. Since I am using the S80, I assume that I will not have this problem.

Or will I? Its a judgement call.

Since I cannot drag a 9 foot Grand through the streets, I guess I will once again take the plunge

and give the (is it real or Memorex test).

Like many of you I have waited too long for this

miracle card. I hope I will not be disappointed.

If there are any S80 or S90 Test pilots out there who have other opinions please do not hesitate to grab the reigns and tug. I am all eyes.

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How is the PLG-150AP compared to the Roland Fantom-X Ultimate Grand?

PLG-150AP DEMOS:

http://files2.keyfax.com/MP3s/plg150ap/

 

FANTOM X DEMOS:

http://www.rolandus.com/products/details.asp?CatID=8&SubCatID=36&ProdID=Fantom-X6&PageMode=15

Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and also helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Harry spends his time teaching jazz piano online and playing solo piano gigs.

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