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Keyboard Mag "Clonewheel Heaven" Shootout


MikeT156

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I got my issue today, broke it open, and sucked it up. It's a good take on what's out there, and heard some objective opinions about the Leslie Sim's too. It changed my opinion somewhat of the Motion Sound boxes. Apparently the MS-1771 is the permanent hearing loss winner. :)

 

I'd like to get everyone's thoughts on the Clone shoot out. Did anyone come away with a different opinion than what you already had? Anything that should have been covered that wasn't?

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Okay, while we're all waiting for our copies, I have a question:

 

Is there a clone module (or board) that's set up to receive on 3 midi channels (for upper, lower, and pedals) like the B-4 is?

 

I ask because there's no room for a Hammond on my new church gig, but it might be possible to midify the Casavant pipe organ we have - this is a pretty common retrofit in pipe organland anymore, though most orgainists are NOT going for the Hammond thing, but rather syrupy pads and bells and wineglasses (scuse me... *gag* ...sorry). So if I can get upper, lower, and pedals to send on 3 separate channels, and find a clone module that supports that, I'd be wildly happy.

 

I have a QS-R that I could set up like that, but of course it's not a clonewheel. Anyone know of one? I'm hoping to avoid buying 3 Voces...

 

Thanks,

 

Daf

I played in an 8 piece horn band. We would often get bored. So...three words:

"Tower of Polka." - Calumet

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Cool! I'm paying a visit to the States at the end of the week :D I'll try and pick up a copy - I assume the mag is available at newsagents?

 

Any online resources for that article? Example mp3s perhaps? I was trying to find some reference to it at Keyboard magazines homepage but failed. Does the magazine come with a CD?

hang out with me at woody piano shack
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Daf:

 

Maybe you'll have your issue today. The reviews didn't go into any detail about MIDI implementation. MOST of the reviews of the clones were only a half page. They covered the pros/cons and "kept it light".

 

Kona:

 

You should be able to pick up a copy at any large news store. This month's issue goes into a LOT of things about organs, not just the clone shootout. We could almost label it as "The ORGAN issue", but there's a lot more than that in this issue. Clones just got a fair amount of coverage. Hammond had their full page ad placed right in between the shootout "as luck would have it". :D

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Originally posted by DafDuc:

Is there a clone module (or board) that's set up to receive on 3 midi channels (for upper, lower, and pedals) like the B-4 is?

 

Daf

You know, I believe you should seriously check out the Roland VK8M. It's a tabletop rack module (no keyboard). I'm pretty sure this handles 3 channels upper,lower manual & bass.

 

Check out Roland's product page at their website. Also you can even download the manual as a PDF if you need to study the midi implementation. Thank you Roland!!

 

IN fact, the VK organs are great, I've tried a few clones and to my ears it sounds wonderful.

hang out with me at woody piano shack
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I don't think I've ever seen a Keyboard Magazine on sale here in Holland, but I will be flying out of Schipol this Friday and will take a look there. Airports usually have a fantastic selection, especially the big airports.

 

This seems like an issue to buy.

No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message.

 

In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments.

 

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Originally posted by JMcS:

The Hammond XM-1 Responds to MIDI on three channels for the three manuals and has a Drawbar Controller. It can also control the Leslie 21 System with the optional 8 Pin cable.

Do they still make that thing? I have one here, it's what we use.

 

It can also control a good old 145 or 122. We control our 122 with ours.

A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!

 

"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau

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I think it was recently discontinued, but there are probably some still around. I know George Smith's Music Center, the Hammond Dealer in Anderson Indiana had one a few months ago. I have one that I will probably be selling soon.

 

With the 8 pin cable, you can change a number of parameters on the Leslie 21 from the XM-1 and with a MIDI cable you can change others. You can also set it up so that the Mod wheel or some other slider/controller can change the Leslie speed like a volume pedal, ie: slow, fast or any speed in between (half fast ;) ).

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I received my copy last night, too! I really liked the mini reviews on all of the products. I was relieved but also kind of disappointed that the traditional best keyboard action, balls, etc. ratings were left out.

 

It is too bad the article could not have been expanded to include more player comments and comparisons about each clone.

 

Steve, you need to do a part two!

 

BTW, there is also a cool feature on Govt. Mule's keyboardist in the issue.

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FYI to Dave Horne: While airports do have OK magazine selections, our niche musician mags don't usually get space there. You are best to check out any Barnes & Noble or Borders bookstore in whatever city you are going to, or a Sam Ash or Guitar Center if you can find one of those. Also, this issue is now being mailed to subscribers. It's not on newsstands until November 2nd. Hope you get one.

Joe McDonough

Music Player Network

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Originally posted by mcdonough@musicplayer.com:

FYI to Dave Horne: While airports do have OK magazine selections, our niche musician mags don't usually get space there. You are best to check out any Barnes & Noble or Borders bookstore in whatever city you are going to, or a Sam Ash or Guitar Center if you can find one of those. Also, this issue is now being mailed to subscribers. It's not on newsstands until November 2nd. Hope you get one.

Joe, thanks for the info but I don't think I'll find a Barnes & Noble in Cyprus. We're just going for a week for some sun. I will still check the stores at Schipol and will report back if I find Keyboard.

No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message.

 

In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments.

 

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Originally posted by Stephen Fortner:

Damn, I don't even have my copy yet!

You know, I love Keyboard, and I never bitch about this to the editorial staff because they have no control over it -- but the fulfillment house for that magazine has got to be the worst I've ever subscribed too. I've completely missed a couple of issues, and on two occassions I've gotten two issues on the same day.

 

I've been eagerly awaiting this issue, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. It will get here when it gets here. Hopefully this year. :rolleyes:

 

--Dave

Make my funk the P-funk.

I wants to get funked up.

 

My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/

 

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Dave, sorry to hear you're having delivery problems. The only encouragement I can offer is that this issue is a keeper. It doesn't just have the "Clonewheel" shootout, but a whole bunch of other organ related articles that are really informative. I only have my copy two days and its already looking shop worn. :)

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Originally posted by DafDuc:

Okay, while we're all waiting for our copies, I have a question:

 

Is there a clone module (or board) that's set up to receive on 3 midi channels (for upper, lower, and pedals) like the B-4 is?

My Oberheim OB-5 does that.

 

dB

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Great work on this issue...I got mine yesterday and enjoyed it immensely.

 

I also, would have liked to see the rating system ("Authenticity", "Balls", etc.) that was used previously used here, or else some sort of overall ranking of favorites.

 

Nice to see that some of the less common choices were included. Wish that all of the instruments that were in the initial table were fully compared.

 

I would have also enjoyed a head to head soft-synth match up: B4 vs. Charlie vs. Creamware's B2003, etc.

 

Overall: great job guys!!

Tom F.

"It is what it is."

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I have the issue, and took a brief look at the 'shootout'. Am I wrong, or does Keyboard not draw any conclusions (as to overall favorite, etc)?

"Oh yeah, I've got two hands here." (Viv Savage)

"Mr. Blu... Mr. Blutarsky: Zero POINT zero." (Dean Vernon Wormer)

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It was an editorial decision this time around to make evaluative comments a part of the text, as opposed to declaring an overall winner. It still comes through, I think, that the panelists, editors, and I thought certain clones were better than others in certain areas: Leslie simulation, keyboard feel, bang-for-buck, and so forth.

 

Part of the reason for this was that the darn things have, for the most part, gotten so good that the "overall winner" medal is harder than ever to award. It seemed fairer to both readers and manufacturers to put each clone in the context of what application its best at.

 

There was also an educational mission for this piece. We certainly wanted it to have plenty of meat for longtime readers, but also have a 15-year-old who's just getting hip to this whole Hammond thing be able to read through it and feel included and inspired to learn more.

 

Part II??? Maybe on the web... I'm working on audio content and demos of a lot of stuff right now. Thanks to everyone who gave input... I really tried to consider as much as I could.

Stephen Fortner

Principal, Fortner Media

Senior Editor, Music Player Network

Former Editor in Chief, Keyboard Magazine

Digital Piano Consultant, Piano Buyer Magazine

 

Industry affiliations: Antares, Arturia, Giles Communications, MS Media, Polyverse

 

 

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A nice summary table of all the key features would have been nice. Unfortunately, the text only highlights certain topics and is not uniform. For example, there is no discussion of the VK8's leslie sim, but there is on the XK3 and Nord Electro.
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I don't know that there CAN be an overall winner. There are so many things to consider as to what's the best board for you. If you need sounds other than organ, the Nord Electro or the Roland would be a better choice. If you want the "best" organ sound, probably the Hammond XK-3. But then you have to consider the size, weight, and price compared to the Korg, which has a better leslie sim. How can you choose a winner when there's many variables? What I think sounds the best is subjective. I sure like the sound of the XK-3, but to me, the CX-3 is a better value.

 

The suggestion of a comparison table is a good one. The reviews didn't follow a set model, so not everything was covered. Despite that, this is one good issue.

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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I was ROTFLMAO over the "pros" of the Motion Sound MS-1771: "louder than holy hell...". I don't think I've seen that phrase used in Keyboard before, especially for a device that seems destined for church use in many cases! :D

 

This is a very good issue. Some of the organ models I'd never seen before, like the awesome Hammond B-3P.

 

My only complaint is that I get the unrequested and unwanted free "Recording" magazine before I get my subscribed "Keyboard". You guys at MP can keep the freebies and just get me my Keyboard on time!

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Originally posted by The Pro:

I was ROTFLMAO over the . . . . .!

DO NOT TAKE THE FOLLOWING OBSERVATION PERSONALLY! :wave:

 

ROTFLMAO ? I had to ask a friend to find out what it meant.

 

Is it just me? or have these Internet Acronyms gotten totally out of control? If people were really LOL as much as they throw that acronym around they'd all be a bunch of hysterical idiiots.

:rolleyes: :

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Originally posted by Steve in KS:

Is it just me? or have these Internet Acronyms gotten totally out of control? If people were really LOL as much as they throw that acronym around they'd all be a bunch of hysterical idiiots. :rolleyes:

When I saw this:

ILSHIBAMF

(I Laughed So Hard I Broke All My Furniture!)

 

This is undoubtedly:

FMTEYEWTK

(Far More Than Everything You've Ever Wanted To Know)

 

TPAE

(The Possibilities Are Endless)

 

WYSINEWYGBIC

(What You See Is Not Exactly What You Get But It's Close)

 

Then again,

WCTYBTWHTKY

(We Could Tell You, But Then We'd Have To Kill You)

 

I'm actually:

A)- COTFLGOHAHA

(Crawling On The Floor Laughing Guts Out And Having A Heart Attack)

 

B)- ROTFSTCLMAAOBPO

(Rolling On The Floor Scaring The Cat Laughing My Ass And Other Body Parts Off)

 

and

C)- TOTC

(Too Old To Care)

 

If you have any more problems with this

B3

(Blah, Blah, Blah)

 

you'll have to take it up with the

AAAAA

(American Association Against Acronym Abuse)

 

I'll leave you with a

WOWF

(Witless One Word Followup):

 

UNA

(Use No Acronyms)

 

:D:P:wave::cool::love:

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Originally posted by Jeep:

Originally posted by Steve in KS:

Is it just me? or have these Internet Acronyms gotten totally out of control? If people were really LOL as much as they throw that acronym around they'd all be a bunch of hysterical idiiots. :rolleyes:

When I saw this:

ILSHIBAMF

(I Laughed So Hard I Broke All My Furniture!)

 

This is undoubtedly:

FMTEYEWTK

(Far More Than Everything You've Ever Wanted To Know)

 

TPAE

(The Possibilities Are Endless)

 

WYSINEWYGBIC

(What You See Is Not Exactly What You Get But It's Close)

 

Then again,

WCTYBTWHTKY

(We Could Tell You, But Then We'd Have To Kill You)

 

I'm actually:

A)- COTFLGOHAHA

(Crawling On The Floor Laughing Guts Out And Having A Heart Attack)

 

B)- ROTFSTCLMAAOBPO

(Rolling On The Floor Scaring The Cat Laughing My Ass And Other Body Parts Off)

 

and

C)- TOTC

(Too Old To Care)

 

If you have any more problems with this

B3

(Blah, Blah, Blah)

 

you'll have to take it up with the

AAAAA

(American Association Against Acronym Abuse)

 

I'll leave you with a

WOWF

(Witless One Word Followup)

 

UNA

(Use No Acronyms)

 

:D:P:wave::cool::love:

LOL! (sorry...) :D
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Hey - I just noticed something.

 

In the magazine, the reviews stated that the creamware b-2003 doesn't have a parameter to adjust the microphone distance on the leslie set-up.

 

But it does...in the current version of the Noah software, which has been out for months, the distance parameter was one of the new features added to the B-2003.

 

Tsk. Tsk.

Tom F.

"It is what it is."

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I just finished reading this issue. I did enjoy the article a lot. Made me think back to the old days when I had a B3 and 2 122's to cart around. You had to be really dedicated to go through that (and have a very supportive band to help you!!). I think the article may motivate me to go out and get something now. Playing organ sounds without waterfall keys just doesn't cut it, even if the module sounds decent.

Gregg

Without music, life would be a mistake - Nietzche

QSC K10, Kurz PC3, K2500x, K2000R, Korg Z1, Roland A80, Roland S-750, 1970 MiniMoog, Synthi AKS, bunch of old rack modules.

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