In serious doubt; S, P, Motif, Fatar???

[Sleepwalker]

Hello everybody,

 

This is my first post. Let me explain my situation:

 

At this point in time my studio consists of:

Pentium 4 with Cubase SE (studio pack)

USB Audiophile M-Audio

Roland vs880ex (used as an audio interface)

Roland JV1010 sound module

Yamaha SY55 synth (used as a master keyboard)

 

I'm an amateur, you can tell that from the gear-list, but I'm pretty happy with what I can achieve with this setup. The problem is my SY55. It has served me well for over 15 years now, but it's getting tired, and needs to rest, so it can't sit in the centre of the setup anymore.

So: I need a new master keyboard.

Since I came to that conclusion (now 2 weeks ago) I have been looking, reading and playing around and now I'm really stunned by all the possibillities. So much to choose from.

Here are the options that I am considering, in order of appearance:

 

1. A used Yamaha S80. A weighted 88 key board stands high on my list, and this one drew my attention when it came out a couple of years ago. It also mat be a not too expensive solution, but the downside is that the sounds might be dated.

2. A new Yamaha S90. So maybe I should spend a bit more to gain a lot. I played this one in a music store and I really LOVED the action. The piano though didn't convince me thoroughly, and for that price that is a let-down for me. Especially because I mainly use anologue sounds like Piano, EP, Organ, (Solo) Strings, Guitars (Virtual Guitarist!) etc.

3. A Yamaha P90. Now there you have a pianosound! Much better than the S90, and the EP2 is very nice too! The other sounds that come with it are nothing to write home about, though, so it won't give me that much new sounds. Then again: it's 1000 euros cheaper than the S90. Still: no modulation and pitch wheels. Will it be suitable as a master keyboard?

4. A master keyboard a la Fatar or M-Audio 88 pro. Forget the extra sounds, I can always get them later as a plug in, or in rack. The keys are what I need. The thing is: can't find a shop in the neighbourhood that has them in stock, so how do I know how they play? Secondly: what board will I take to my band when practicing or playing live? I don't want to plug out the JV1010 each week.

5. Motif/Motif ES. It would be the 6 (maybe 7) option, because the 8 exceedes my budget to much (hey: I also to update my Groove Agent SE and get some of those lovely Horizon sets, from the Vienna Symphonic Library). So here I forget about my wish for a weighted board. I've done without it for 15 years now, so. The Motif ES is expensive though, and it might contain a LOT that I don't really need.

 

Well, it's a long story, and I'm full of doubt. Maybe some of you have any ideas to help me out. I'm not a person who wants new gear every year. I want to buy something that I can stay with for another 15 years.

[MikeT156]

It sounds like you need SOME sounds, but not anything other than bread and butter sounds. One thing to keep in mind about the S90, it has the Motif Classic engine, so the Motif ES series has a more up to date engine and sounds better. Bring your American Express. I'd shy away from the M-Audio Pro 88, too many problems. Not sure about the Fatar's track record. If you go the controller route, you are definately going to want wheels or a stick for expression. The P90, P120, and P250 won't give you that. Some folks say that a Yamaha Piano KB is not the best controller you can get for being easy and fully operational without headaches. Other contributors on this site know more about Yamaha as a controller is better than I do. I have an ES8 and am considering getting a dedicated controller for a DSI POLY Evolver, and later, other modules or racks.

 

Typically, folks that go the controller route are going to built things piece meal cause its easier on the budget and you can pick and chose what you want from different manufacturers.

 

You MAY want to consider the Novation Remote 49 or 61 KB controller. Check it out on Sweetwater's site. Their rep recommended them. Keep in mind that Novation has been taken over so you may want to check into what's going on with them before you buy anything. Here's some of the basic features:

 

49-Key (or 61 key model) USB MIDI Keyboard Controller with 24 Buttons, 8 Knobs, 8 Encoders, and 8 Sliders. It has a joystick instead of wheels, but you can controller just about anything with it. It has aftertouch too. Link:

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ReMOTE49/

 

Then you could buy a MOTIF rack, or another mfg. rack, or a sound module to get the sounds you want.

 

Mike T.

[Sleepwalker]

Thank you for the fast reply!

 

I'm going to check out Sweetwater.com right away, but another option came to my mind. What about a P90 (or 120/250) connected with my sy55 in such a way that the sy's duty is only to provide a mod and a pitchbend wheel? Is that even possible?

 

Thanks in advance. Any suggestion is welcome.

[Jeebus]

Originally posted by Sleepwalker:

Thank you for the fast reply!

 

I'm going to check out Sweetwater.com right away, but another option came to my mind. What about a P90 (or 120/250) connected with my sy55 in such a way that the sy's duty is only to provide a mod and a pitchbend wheel? Is that even possible?

That is possible, but that solution doesn't make the most efficient use of space. An SY55 has a rather large footprint for pitch and modwheel functions...

[Sleepwalker]

You are very right of course. And the novation looks to be a good board indeed. How about their x-station by the way? Anyone used it yet?

 

I'm still in doubt because the novation lacks two things that I would like in my new Master Keyboard: 1) weighted keys 2) sounds of it's own, so I could take it with me to practice with the band.

[RABid]

Assuming this is for studio only and not stage I have a few tips and suggestions.

 

Your P4 can run a software piano that will sound much better than any keyboard or workstation so don't base your choice entirely on the piano sound of the keyboard.

 

Consider seperates for the studio. My StudioLogic does fine at home and it is a joy to have an 88 note weighted keyboard around.

 

An 88 key workstation is more expensive than a 61 key workstation + 88 key controller. In other words, my Motif ES6 and StudioLogic 990 was cheaper than a Motif ES8.

 

If this is for a home studio, even an amature home studio, consider a controller and some VSTi's. Maybe upgrade Cubase SE while you are at it.

 

And last of all, get a keyboard you are comfortable with. If you don't like some of the sounds you can use a rack unit or software to improve those. If you don't like the feel of the keys or the controls, you can only correct this by changing changing the keyboard.

 

Robert

[Sleepwalker]

Thank you Robert! You are thinking about Steinberg's The Grand? Or do you know of an even better package?

 

I was told that a software piano is VERY processor heavy and that it would certainly affect performance, especially when other VSTi's (Groove Agent, Virtual Guitarist, The soon to be Horizon Solo Strings for instance) are running with it. That's why I thought I could better have the piano sound in external hardware. Do you think the problem won't be that big?

 

Almost forgotten: why should I update Cubase? Have you experienced any annoying limitations with SE? I don't really know the finer differences between SE and SX(2 or 3),other than the latter supports surround (I don't need that) and costs at least 500 euro more (I don't need that either

[MikeT156]

Rabid's suggestion about the controller he's using is good. If you have to have an 88 note weighted board, the Studiologic is probably the way to go for a company that's been around long enough without spending the mega bucks on an ES8. You need to have a KB you're happy with playing. Seems like you want a piano and a controller. You might not be happy if you buy a no compromise piano and have problems using it as a controller.

 

I was looking at your budget too. Buying a controller first and connecting it to you current studio setup seemed to be a top priority, but throw in the added use of playing with a band an now you have two different scenarios. I don't think you'd be unhappy with a dedicated controller if you buy a module to give you the sounds you need, and buy what you can afford. You can always buy something else when you have more $$$. Plan ahead.

 

Mike T.

[RABid]

I hear that Steinberg the Grand is CPU heavy. Priducts that use the NI Kontakt engine, like this one are more memory intensive than CPU intensive. If you have a decent ROMpler you can write your song using it, then move tracks to software instruments for recording. I can use my Roland hardware to quickly put a song together, then one at a time have the sequencer replay those parts on software and record the output to computer. Look for information on tracking or freezing parts. My most likely candidates is piano, ep and orchestra parts. You might even check out GPO which has a decent piano.

 

Robert

[Sleepwalker]

Rabid, I'm sorry, I'm not very technical. What is a Rompler?

[RABid]

Your JV1010 is a ROMpler. So is the Motif, Triton, Proteus and the S90. Any unit that relies on samples stored in ROM. People also use that term to describe software counterparts such as SampleTank. Basically, the ROM holds a large variety of samples but of lower qualiy than a sample collection dedicated to a specific instrument.

 

Robert

[Sleepwalker]

Just to rectify MikeT's post: The Yamaha P250 DOES have a pitchbend and modulation wheel. I am not going to buy it, though: I've played him and it's very nice, but I don't think that the small difference in sound alone justifies the price difference with the P90. Which, by the way, sounds very good indeed, but not just as good as the plug in Rabid directed me to. Great piano, that PMI! Found another nice one to, at Bardsaudio. Maybe software seems the way to go, then. Still need a board for the band (see www.cunningplan.nl, if you're interested). To keep things in the budget (leave some money for some softsynths!) I am considering a Yamaha S30, that is sold for around 800 euros around here. Does anyone have any experience with this one?

[Sleepwalker]

Well, just to let you kind people know: I have bought a Motif 6 (classic). Must be the last one (unused) available here in Holland. It will arrive here next monday, and I'm very excited about it! The s30 just didn't sound a whole lot better than my sy55 and the Motif was only 200 euro's more expensive! I thank you all for your kind and well-thought advice. I am definitely going down the route of one step at a time. Firstly I needed a good board that could serve as a studio master keyboard as well as on stage, and that's the Motif. Because of it's relative little price, I still have budget for short term purchases of sample libraries or an extra hard-disk. When the time comes (and M-Audio makes a faultfree, affordable 88 weighted controller) I can always buy my full lenght master keyboard.

 

Thank you all.