? about charging for playing at a party.

[Mike Rhodes]

Never done that before, but last night I played at a friends house. Took my stuff and played while everybody had dinner.

 

Was told I should do this for $$ on the side and that seems like a worthwhile idea. HAVE never done that before so what would you all recommend.

 

Holidays coming up. How much an hour should a person charge to play for a private party? I'm in the midwest.

 

Thank you in advance for helping.

[Rockman59]

If you are just starting out.....$50 a hour is a good number with at least a 2 or 3 hour minimum.

[Mike Rhodes]

Could you clarify what "just starting out" would mean in this case.

 

Starting to play? or Starting to charge.

 

thanks!

[Pursuitboy]

The fee is so dependant on the quality of your musical product and presentation.

If your audience enjoys it and wants more of it than $$$ will take care of itself

$150 for 3 hrs with setup and take down seems more than fair

[resigned]

Originally posted by Mike Rhodes:

Could you clarify what "just starting out" would mean in this case.

 

Starting to play? or Starting to charge.

 

thanks!

Starting to play professionally. Experience counts, but we all have to start somewhere.

[Bartolomeo]

Rates vary widely and it can be a divisive subject.

 

Last time I researched rates, professional pianists playing for private parties in Minneapolis seemed to be charging around $175-$250 a night. Gigs are usually 2-3 hours, and since you can't play more than one gig a night, it seems like the rates are the same unless the gig gets really long. There is a Minneapolis area talent agency that lists rates for a few of their artists.

 

Also, the Twin Cities AGO (American Guild of Organists) was suggesting rates of $175 for funerals and $225 for weddings.

 

In both cases these are on the high end. They presume that the performer only plays and doesn't need to do any setup or teardown. These are the rates that people who are trying to make a living with their music are charging, or trying to, as near as I can tell.

 

In my area (more rural) the going rate is presently $75 per event for amateur performers, be they vocalists or keyboard players.

 

I don't really seek out paying gigs so I may be a little out of touch. If I did, I would adjust my pricing based on the amount of preparation needed, the amount of pressure, the amount of hassle, and the amount of equipment to haul.

 

Showing up and playing established repertoire for a couple hours on a house instrument for background music at a restaurant is a lot less work than, say, a wedding where specific material has to be prepared, people are jerks, and TSHTF if you don't show up.

 

I remember sitting down and plinking on a hotel piano one day to pass the time while I waited for an appointment. A union musician who worked in the hotel got bent out of shape over it because I was supposedly undermining his ability to get paid.

 

Accordingly, I try not to undercut established pricing and I do charge for gigs that should be paying gigs even though in most cases I'm not really doing it for the money.

 

Bartolomeo

[JeffLearman]

I just attended a professional function (awards night for a professional org that my wife's on the board of). She happened to have the line items for the function, and it was $95 to tune the piano, $95 to rent the piano, and $300 for the player, who was arranged by the venue. This is a little different from a private party I suppose, but he didn't have a tip-jar out.

 

This was in Charlotte, NC.

 

Just a data point.

 

The only disappointing thing is that, when they arranged the gig, there was a 9' grand piano sitting there. The venue didn't happen mention that what was being rented was a Kawai upright.

[Mike Rhodes]

Regarding pianos in hotels, that is funny. You know, I don't think I've ever been able to touch a piano...just sitting there in a quiet spot waiting for somebody to play it.

 

Every time I have ever done that, somebody always comes up and says, "Sounds great," but you can't play the piano.

 

Ha. What the heck are the things there for anyway? Paperweights?????

[JeffLearman]

I don't hesitate, and I play until they make me leave. If there's a crew setting something up, they always appreciate it.

 

But for lots of hotels, they're just there for the looks. You can tell that by how badly tuned they sometimes are. Sometimes I get "Are you a member of the Musician's Union here in (state)?"

 

I've always wondered whether it's an insurance issue, a nuisance issue, or an RIAA thing. Or maybe just managers with sticks up their orifices. Probably all the above.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Whether you're playing solo or have a 10-piece band, $200 is always the magic number in my experience. It's enough to make it worthwhile for you to do, and low enough for the host of a private party to consider it a non-extravagant expense.

 

If you can get more, good for you. Don't take less, though, unless you're only playing for a short while (like, pre-dinner cocktail hour).

 

- Jeff

[ITGITC]

I apologize in advance for the rant...

 

I was talking with one of the VPs here at work yesterday. She asked me about my band and how much we would charge to play at a party at her home.

 

Now this person pulls down a very nice salary and certainly should have no problem paying whatever I asked. However, I didn't want to take advantage of the situation so I told her that for a local gig we try to clear $100/person plus expenses.

 

The first thing she does is start trying to get a better price. She asks me about offering the band food & drink - "Does that make a difference in what you charge?", she said.

 

I wanted to turn and walk away. However, seeing that she is a VP at the company where I work, I just couldn't do that. So, I smiled, nodded my head, and tried to laugh it off.

 

Frankly, I'm not leaving the house for less than $100 plus expenses. And that's to play a party that I *know* is going to be a blast to play. If I have to do anything else - like wear a tux, or load in early, or take requests - I'm going to charge more.

 

Folks, I just cannot understand the mentality of people who want to negotiate the fee right from the start. If I was asking $1,000 and had some room to negotiate, fine. But I was trying to be realistic and offer her a price that would work for the bandmembers - and one that I knew she could afford.

 

We've got 5 guys in the band. They travel from various places to play a gig that would be local for me. Considering our time, the cost of equipment, the price of gas... not to mention the actual performance, I think $600 is pretty damn reasonable. In fact, it's almost too reasonable!

 

Anyway, I left her a song list and some more information. If she contacts me to set a date I will honor the price I quoted - $600. However, the more I think about it, the more I realize that if I took less, I wouldn't be happy.

 

Why is it that non-musicians think that musicians should perform for a pittance? Do they think that we simply enjoy performing so much that we should come over to their homes, lug the equipment, defer any other plans we may have, just to entertain their friends for nothing? Yes, I love to play music, but I hate feeling like I'm being taken advantage of.

 

Grrrrrr

 

This is why I often would much rather stay home with my dogs than to put up with folks like this.

 

OK... Rant off. I feel better now. Thanks!

 

Tom

[Dave Horne]

Call up a garage and ask what a mechanic makes per hour for working on an imported car. Use that price as your base. If the people you play for balk at your price simply point out that a car mechanic makes X dollars per hour.

[Mark Zeger]

Last Memorial Day weekend, I paid an excellent player $150 for 90min. of solo piano cocktail music. It was someone I knew and Memorial Day was a tough weekend to find anyone, let alone someone good.

[JMcS]

Never do business with friends or relatives. A co-worker higher up on the food chain (I'm assuming, sorry if I'm wrong) is even worse. Absolutely no good can come from it.

[MikeT156]

The trouble is, there's a lot of players that are willing to play for practically nothing for "exposure". I'd save the exposure for the nude beach and ask for what you know you're worth. If they balk at it, smile, and hold the line. I've walked away from gigs when I knew the owner was just being a cheap ass and it wasn't worth me doing. If more of us did that, there might be less price cutting.

 

But then there's DJ's, and other alternatives, so people that don't want to pay usually find some other means.

 

I'd rather sit home and practice and enjoy myself than play for way too little money and have to move all my gear too.

 

Mike T.

[147Keys]

"Getting exposure" is overrated. My jazz combo has been playing gigs to get "exposure" for years, sometimes for as little as $25 per member. Seems like every year we have the same number of gigs.

[Tedly Nightshade]

Originally posted by learjeff:

I don't hesitate, and I play until they make me leave.

Just the other day I was telling someone, look you can pay me if you want to tell me what to do, or call the fuckin' cops...

 

I don't really recommend that, but I had to say it.

 

We're playing a party tomorrow, something we don't do often enough, and being paid our asking price (duo, lots of originals) of $150. The woman throwing the party had tried to book a DJ and found they were $300! The guy it's a surprise birthday party for was walking through a farmer's market where we were playing for tips and starting raving to this woman about some party we'd played at. Can't imagine when that was, but the description sounded right. So she snuck back to hire us! Not much later things got to the "call the fuckin' cops" point with some asshole who thinks he runs the market... Other folks think he does too but he don't run us. Overall a nasty taste in the mouth but scored a nice gig while we were at it.

 

Wouldn't mind at all if it led to playing some more nice private parties with cool folks like these.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

I want to second Gassy's rant on people expecting bands to play "for food and drink".

 

I can get my own food and drink, damnit. I am a professional musician with almost 30 years of experience on my instrument, and over 20 years experience playing in bands.

 

I'd love to throw it back at them, based on their profession. Like...

 

- "Hey, will you come over and do my taxes for food and drink?"

 

- "My car needs a tune-up... I'll give you a burger and some beer to do it."

 

- "Thanks for the check-up, Doc. I brought you a grilled chicken sandwich in return."

 

Sheesh!

 

- Jeff

[Stephen Fortner]

There are two sides to the coin for me;

 

1. Make sure you have a quality product. This applies whether performing solo or in a band. Rehearse, minimize dead air between songs, look your best, and be courteous and friendly to the guests without seeming too solicitous. One factor behind downward pressure on rates and perks is, unfortunately, that a lot of "musicians" are less than adequately talented and professional. Don't be one. Not to say Gas's rant isn't justified - it is. Patrons have been lowballing artists since the days of the ancient Greeks.

 

2. Unless you really believe in the event and want to support it, it's a friends thing, etc, don't take less than $150 - $200 for a full evening's work. (Three 45-60 minute sets with two 15-minute breaks, plus schleppin' yer gear.) People devalue anything that comes too cheaply.

 

One philosophy is that when you're just starting out, you should take less until you've "caught up" to the "pros" in town. I tend to disagree with that, as getting out there on the circuit at below-market rates reinforces perceptions which you later have to defeat in order to get more. I'd rather rehearse my act until I'm sure it's as good or better than anything I see going on locally in the same format, then charge what it's really worth.

 

[CLICHE] Just my $0.02... YMMV [/CLICHE]

[MikeT156]

Hey Ted, I think I finally found something I disagree with you about, your asking price. $150.00 for BOTH of you? You got to be kidding, right? You lug around some serious gear, but besides that, you can play! I realize that local "market reality" is always a factor, it sounds like you're low balling yourself. You won't get an XK-3 the next time you have GAS charging those kinda rates.

 

Market reality: I live outside a college town, and there are "fraternity" bands that bring their own "crowd" e.g. their friends that come to see them play, spend money, etc. and club owners always ask.....do you have a following? They don't care all that much how well you play as long as the registers ring. Then there's a lot of DJ's that have taken over the smaller rooms that I use to play all the time. Places where they needed to have entertainment, but a band was too loud and they didn't have the capacity to cover them. DJ territory now. But DJ prices have gone up, they have equipment and expenses as we do. All in all, there's not a lot of rooms around here where I can play anymore.

 

Stephen, I agree with what you said. You set a precedent when you don't charge enough. Its better to get your act together, find out what other players are getting, and try to get what you're worth. You have to have a good act if you're going to charge for it. You're right, if you don't set an appropriate value on yourself, neither will anyone else.

 

Mike T.

[Tedly Nightshade]

Originally posted by MikeT156:

Hey Ted, I think I finally found something I disagree with you about, your asking price. $150.00 for BOTH of you? You got to be kidding, right? You lug around some serious gear, but besides that, you can play! I realize that local "market reality" is always a factor, it sounds like you're low balling yourself. You won't get an XK-3 the next time you have GAS charging those kinda rates.

 

You have to have a good act if you're going to charge for it. You're right, if you don't set an appropriate value on yourself, neither will anyone else.

 

Mike T.

Well you're quite right Mike. The fact is, gigs is pretty damn slim down here for an unusual act. It's not uncommon for us to do our thing on a streetcorner (just vibes and guitar) for $50 in tips. And most of the good festival gigs around here (good: mellow vibes, great food, free to be you & me kinda scene) don't pay at all.

 

We did get one good-paying festival-type gig around here where the guy putting it on, a classy local bluegrass musician, paid all the bands $100 a head for a single set. That's $200 for the two of us. I reckon we ought to be asking that, but you know I don't know how often we would be working if we did. Not that we're hardly working at all.

 

We really can't compete with the commercial blues and cover bands around here- depending on your point of view, we're "not professional enough" (i.e., you can't really ignore us while we're playing- no wallpaper here) or we just smoke them completely, 'cause what we do is straight from the heart and just naked, although always very classy. It's very strange- it's like a weird parallel universe to exist in. I still haven't figured out how to manage it.

 

We lack any kind of press kit, management, or even a CD, which doesn't help. We've been working on the CD for years! Not the same one, we keep scrapping it and starting over, and you know I think right about now we're really good enough to nail this stuff live to 2 track, a lot different than the overdub fest we started out trying to do. We really don't have enough business sense between us to get it together, it really seems after all these years of trying. We definitely need a co-conspirator who can do the peddling!

[MikeT156]

That's really too bad Ted, but you're not alone. There's a lot less work around for live players most everywhere these days. I don't know that its less difficult in a larger market area than it is in a small market. I understand that in places on the west coast, some groups actually pay the club owners to play, hoping to be "discovered". I don't know how true that is, but I heard that some years back. Back in the early 70's I was in a rock group that use to make between 500 to 800 a night, more as an opening act for concerts in our region. As a solo, I made some decent change. The older you get, the less people are interested in hiring you at all.

 

Mike T.

[Bartolomeo]

Ah, playing for "experience" and "exposure."

 

Well, there's a place and a time for everything, I guess. There are bands out there that play all original stuff, who no one will pay, because people want to hear songs they know. If you're going to be a band like that, you'll have to play for "exposure" a good deal and can expect paying gigs to be few and far between until you develop a following.

 

There are also certain styles that are just impossible to book. If you're a duo with two guys who sing, one strums the autoharp and the other plays banjo, you're going to be playing for "exposure" and "experience." For the most part, the folk music, singer-songwriter, and bluegrass styles are all like this. There just aren't many paying gigs for anyone but the national names.

 

But paying gigs are out there in all markets, if you're chops are strong enough, if you're in a band that's the right size, and if you're playing material that people want.

 

Bartolomeo

[Rockitman]

I take liberties on a local hotel's piano about once a week. It is great fun to play on a grand and even though I'm not a hired musicisan there, I get great feedback and do enjoy playing in front of folks. I've been thinking of approaching management and asking for some income as this piano does nothing but collect dust. They probably haven't approached me since they probably are saying "why should we? He's playing for free". I don't know. It's just fun to do. It's just weird thinking about getting paid for something that I like to do, (unlike my real job).

[Tedly Nightshade]

Well I guess I should take it as a hint that the last two gigs I was asked to do, I asked for $150 and got $200 one time and $175 the other, last night.

 

We pleased some folks by pulling out our best stabs at their requests (some prepubescent girls wanted to hear Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band- who'd of thunk it? And who'd have thought that brief tune had so many variations on the changes to go with each line of the vocal? Wish I'd started in a lower key, I couldn't quite manage the last bit of high belting- got an A for effort though), and that was fun, but what really got these people was our originals. It's a good feeling to get a song folks have never heard before across effectively, so they like it more than the stuff they know and love!

[MikeT156]

That's pretty interesting Ted. If people are paying you more than your asking rate, you're not charging enough, obviously. I think when you get a steady house gig, you can negotiate a discount for regular work, but by today's standards, asking 200.00 for a duo is not overcharging. I think it also depends on the venue. Some places just can't afford to pay much, but they shouldn't try to hire live entertainers for 40 bucks each either. Those are the gigs to walk away from.

 

Speaking of unusual requests. I use to play a ton of Billy Joel stuff when he was at the height of his career and I was too. I was playing this place (solo) one night to a pretty good size crowd, and this US Marine comes in with Dress Uniform and all, and asked me to play Goodnight Saigon. I think I surprised him when I did it. I had a "tape chip" of the jungle and cricket sounds in the intro, used the helicopter sound effect on my Prophet 5, and played the whole thing.

 

It was the wrong venue to play that in, but being I'm a vet, I played it anyway. It went over a lot better than I ever expected, since its not really an "upper" song. But that Marine took precedence in my mind. It's fun to pull a rabbit out of your hat once in awhile.

 

Mike T.

[Tedly Nightshade]

Yeah, it's great when you can pull a rabbit out of the ol' hat!

[tarkus]

Good topic -

 

Once word gets out that you perform 'on the cheap', asking for more becomes difficult.

 

Solo gig - keep in mind that you have no roadies, you had to travel x distance. I used to charge $150 to $200 per hour depending on the gig. Weddings - this goes double or triple because I'd have to rent a tux and work with the hall or the planner.

 

Group gigs - private party: 3 x 50 minute sets of music or 2 x 75 minute sets of music. $100 to $150 per player - %10 bonus to the player that ot the gig. College days: we'd get $150 base and pass the hat between sets - if your gonna collect for more beer, we're gonna collect for more music.

 

Bar gig - same format as the party gig. exception:

If the bar owner was pulling a fast one we'd give him/her the option. So you only want to give us $200 for three sets, You give us $150 plus %10 of what the bar makes during our sets and calcuated off the cash register recipts between sets. Demonstrated to the bar owner that our music was a commodity. Usually walked away from these gigs with close to $1000. Depends on the bar as well.

 

Sometimes Bar Owners go back on their word.

[Jeff Irok]

I think standard prices change from area to area. I'm in the NW corner of CT - I'm in a 7-piece group, and we almost never do a gig less than $100/member (with the exception of doing a charity, or a short set for some reason or another.) I've done gigs where we got $300/member - not a lot (sadly!) but that's standard for New Years Eve Around here. I did a party with a 4-piece group the other day, also for $100/member.

 

I haven't done much soloing, but for a full job playing cocktail music, I think that $200 wouldn't be unreasonable. (Weddings more, of course.)

 

I know that different areas have a different standard. My suggestion would be to ask other bands and groups, find out out they get, and shave a little off if you're just starting out.

[gangsu]

Originally posted by Ted Nightshade:

Yeah, it's great when you can pull a rabbit out of the ol' hat!

was that pun intended?