piano polyphony .... minimum?

[Dave Horne]

Using one played note equals one note of polyphony, what do you think is the minimum amount of polyphony needed for a realistic piano sound?

 

Playing a four note chord in the left hand while playing a four octave scale in the right hand while the sustain pedal is depressed comes to 32 notes just to put this in perspective.

 

If an acoustic piano were limited to 32 note polyphony, would anyone notice?

[Bill H.]

I think it depends on what style you're playing...and in what context. When I'm playng live...country, country and classic rock...even 16 note's OK. In fact, I like it even better at 16 or 32 because then old notes drop out and things sound cleaner. But try telling that to a jazz or classical player... their response will be !

[David Loving]

I have two Kurzweil sp pianos with 32 note polyphony and it's no problem. Luckily I do not play too many notes.

[Reverend Rhythm]

Would the snswer be, "depends on how many notes you need to play."?

[Anomaly]

In a solo classical setting, I suppose one could tell the difference, but unless you are using multiple samples, like piano and a big orchestral patch for example, polyphony shouldn't be a problem.

 

I can remember when I used to have my O1W (32 voice)that I would run out of polyphony on some of the big combination settings, but I never experienced that with my Triton which is double the polyphony.

[Anomaly]

In a solo classical setting, I suppose one could tell the difference, but unless you are using multiple samples, like piano and a big orchestral patch for example, polyphony shouldn't be a problem.

 

I can remember when I used to have my O1W (32 voice)that I would run out of polyphony on some of the big combination settings, but I never experienced that with my Triton which is double the polyphony.

[cnegrad]

For those playing jazz, 32 doesn't cut it at all. If you use dense two handed chords with the sustain pedal, or play fast long runs, 32 gets used up very quickly. I'd say that 64 would be reasonable.

[clusterchord]

32 voices for pop rock within a dense arrangement.

64 voices for any solo piano w pedal playing.

double that for stereo samples..

[DafDuc]

I used a 28-note Roland P-55 for a long time in a pop environment, and wasn't bothered too much. It was noticeable occasionally, though. And double patches (14 notes) would drop out all the time. 64 should be adequate, as long as you're not doubling.

 

Daf

[Dave Horne]

I don't make it a habit to count the number of notes I'm playing, but on my piano with 32 note polyphony, I have never felt limited, never.

 

I have, on occasion, tried to reach the 32 note limit and failed each time to actually hear where notes were being removed - it takes a fair amount of playing to reach that limit. The cacophony limit can be more easily reached than the 32 note limit of real life playing.

 

(Also, for the sake of this discussion, one played note equals one note of polyphony. If your piano counts one played note, a stereo sample as two notes, then double the 32 to 64. At any rate, I do a great deal of playing and have never encountered a situation in _piano playing_, either improvised or classical literature, where 32 notes were not enough.)

[cnegrad]

Then why ask the question to begin with?

[Dave Horne]

Originally posted by cnegrad:

Then why ask the question to begin with?

To provoke a discussion.

[Yoozer]

64 should do fine, it's just that most synth manufacturers have the disturbing habit to list polyphony as "the number of multisamples played at once", and if you have a piano consisting of 3 or 4 multisamples you will run into a limit rather fast .

[JeffLearman]

When I play Lyle-Mays-esque piano parts, my synth sometimes drops out important notes when I'm using a layered patch (so I only get 16 notes). They goofed on one thing: it has low note priority, but ONLY if you're HOLDING the key down, not if it's ringing due to the pedal (DOH!)

 

If it weren't for that one flaw, I probably wouldn't ever have a problem, even with 16.

 

I suspect that, other than odd pieces that play with the instrument rather than play the instrument, stuff like Fats Waller would probably be the most demanding, or perhaps classical pieces that use long sustained runs.

[ksounds]

Originally posted by Yoozer:

64 should do fine, it's just that most synth manufacturers have the disturbing habit to list polyphony as "the number of multisamples played at once", and if you have a piano consisting of 3 or 4 multisamples you will run into a limit rather fast .

I don't think the situation is quite that bad. If you're referring to pianos that have 3 or 4 velocity layers (often listed as distinct multisamples), these pianos don't use any more polyphony than a single-velocity piano. A note's velocity determines which single multisample that note will use. I don't know of any workstation keyboards that use velocity crossfading, so you should get away with only 2 voices of polyphony per note for a stereo piano.

 

If you have separate samples for string resonance, etc., then of course you'll use more polyphony. But synth manufacturers don't include those extras on most of today's hardware.

[Quarryking]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

Using one played note equals one note of polyphony, what do you think is the minimum amount of polyphony needed for a realistic piano sound?

 

Playing a four note chord in the left hand while playing a four octave scale in the right hand while the sustain pedal is depressed comes to 32 notes just to put this in perspective.

 

If an acoustic piano were limited to 32 note polyphony, would anyone notice?

Forgive my sheer ignorance with regard to his topic and don't throw me of the forum for this question...!!!!

 

But..how does the break up happen and all come up to 32 notes, based on the" Playing a four note chord in the left hand while playing a four octave scale in the right hand while the sustain pedal is depressed"

 

Yeah...weak in math, not a keyboard player but in love with the sound of the rhodes and the Wurly.

[Dave Horne]

I used a four note chord and a four octave scale (or run) merely as an example to help put the number of notes into perspective. (I am also counting one note played equals one note of polyphony to avoid yet another discussion of stereo samples possibility eating up two notes of polyphony.)

 

If you're holding down a four note chord in your left hand, that's already four notes, right? A four octave scale (or run) played with your right hand against that four note chord, assuming seven notes per octave, actually comes to 29 notes (starting and ending on the same note, but in a different octave) so we're already one note over the 32 note polyphony limit.

 

I just used that as an example of how much has to be played (in this one example) before the piano's operating system will begin to start dropping notes. In real life you might not hold down the sustain pedal for that four octave run, but if you do, you can figure on 29 notes being used from the polyphony bucket just from that run alone.

 

What was the question again?

[gangsu]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

the polyphony bucket

Hahahah I like that.

 

however, I'm staying out of this conversation. (can you tell?)

[Quarryking]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

I used a four note chord and a four octave scale (or run) merely as an example to help put the number of notes into perspective. (I am also counting one note played equals one note of polyphony to avoid yet another discussion of stereo samples possibility eating up two notes of polyphony.)

 

If you're holding down a four note chord in your left hand, that's already four notes, right? A four octave scale (or run) played with your right hand against that four note chord, assuming seven notes per octave, actually comes to 29 notes (starting and ending on the same note, but in a different octave) so we're already one note over the 32 note polyphony limit.

 

I just used that as an example of how much has to be played (in this one example) before the piano's operating system will begin to start dropping notes. In real life you might not hold down the sustain pedal for that four octave run, but if you do, you can figure on 29 notes being used from the polyphony bucket just from that run alone.

 

What was the question again?

Understood now...it's a whole lot clearer..thanks