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Is it just me or do Yamaha brass sounds generally suck?


ELP71

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I mean - I am a proud Yamaha owner. I love the stuff. But I sure am glad I have other options for brass. Orchestral and otherwise. They sound so synthy. I mean, really synthy.

 

What gives? I know you can't please everyone, but thier other stuff is so damn good it seems weird that this area is sooooooo poor.

Weasels ripped my flesh. Rzzzzzzz.
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It's relative, though. I think even brass samples aren't very convincing when soloed. There's a lot of french horn section patches on all three of the major samplers that are passable, but a solo unmuted trumpet? Forget it.

"For instance" is not proof.

 

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I was under the impression that Yamaha made excellent brass instruments.

 

;)

 

I like Roland gear for brass, but that opinion is subjective. The "quality" of a sound depends upon the style of music that you're trying to produce.

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

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Originally posted by ELP71:

I mean - I am a proud Yamaha owner. I love the stuff. But I sure am glad I have other options for brass. Orchestral and otherwise. They sound so synthy. I mean, really synthy.

 

What gives? I know you can't please everyone, but thier other stuff is so damn good it seems weird that this area is sooooooo poor.

Oh I don't know - you can find much worse with little trouble.

 

The trouble with brass on a keyboard that they are generally set up to sound like brass on a keyboard. There is actually a stylistic thing going on there. Thy are not intended to sound real and if they were they wouldn't be usable in many keyboard situations.

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I've hooked up my Peavy 31 band EQ unit to the keyboard and have changed the tones of various instruments to soften or to brighten from a given patch. You could try something like that, it might help. If playing out, it might be a good idea to have the sounds sampled and stored back into the unit (if possible)....I might be lost here.

 

Just a thought.

 

Jazzman :cool:

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I agree. I have a new S90 and the brass samples are not even as good as my old JV-80 w/ the Pop board.

 

I have made them sound a lot better by adding 2 things: a breath controller and a PLG-150VL board. just that one modelled sound layered in makes a noticeable difference.

Moe

---

 

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I agree,most Brass sounds just don't cut it when you have to solo. i don't think it is unique to Yamaha. My Triton rack is just as bad as my Motif rack.Trying to cover a sax solo on a keyboard works about as well as playing drums on a keyboard. I always seem to go back to my old faithful Roland D-50 for that 80's synth brass to try and fatten up the thin sounds they offer us today

I will say the Kurzweil line(PC2,or K2VX) has some very convincing brass sounds. I should have stopped buying stuff years ago. The D-50, Yamaha TX802 and Kurzweil products mixed together are still the best combination out there,not only for Brass but alot of other combinations .

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Try out some of the VL sounds on the Yammie VL instruments, and in particular the solo trumpet on the EX-5 (which I use). The pitch bend wheel actually makes it hit the trumpet harmonics, rather than bend/portamento notes, absolutely stunning!

But, I agree, most of the ensemble stuff I drop down to my Kurzweil for.

And actually, I much prefer the Yamaha brass to the Yamaha string sounds, which I find totally unuseable (I've owned the DX-7, TX-81Z, TG77 and now the EX-5)!

Botch

"Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will

www.puddlestone.net

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That's funny......I say the same thing about my Motif ES. I wish that they could've done a better job with the brass sounds, because I STILL rely on my Roland D-550 and XP-50 for brass.
Yamaha MODX8, Korg Kronos 2 61, Hammond B3, Novation 61SL MKII, Impulse 61, Roland D-550, Proteus 2000, etc......to name a few.
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Botch, You are so right! The strings on a DX7 were beyond unusable. They were a downright embarrassment. You had to have a Roland Juno-106,or an Oberheim Matrix-6 slaved to it to get any kind of string sound.

However back in the mid 80's TheYamaha's had the best sounding (FM real) brass,going

I remember playing Robert Palmer's "Addicted To Love" using that "PercBrass" patch on my DX7 for the horn parts

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Heh-heh! It's not what you've got, boyz, it's what you do with it. I'll bet Jan Hammer or Hans Zimmer or James Newton Howard can make Motif brass patches sound amazing.

 

Are you playing these sounds like a brass instrument, or are you playing them like a keyboard, i.e. block chords? Brass instruments are monophonic, and no two players sound alike. Try single tracking each voice with a different patch or at least a modification of one patch.

 

Maybe you should run out to your local record mart and pick up a Canadian Brass CD. Try to emulate some of their nuances and articulations. Brass instruments are very expressive. You'll have to work to bring that expressiveness out on a synthesizer.

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

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Dan, I'm referring to the synth brass sounds. And yes, I do play it like a keyboard. :D
Yamaha MODX8, Korg Kronos 2 61, Hammond B3, Novation 61SL MKII, Impulse 61, Roland D-550, Proteus 2000, etc......to name a few.
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Dan - I'm not talking about idomatic playing. I'm VERY familiar with the nuance of acoustic instruments, paticularly brass having done about a zillion arrangements and having conducted live ensembles a bunch o' times.

 

I'm just saying that it boggles my mind that a keyboard (S90, Motif) that 'gets it done' on so many fronts drops the ball so heavily on this one.

Weasels ripped my flesh. Rzzzzzzz.
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I'm actually disappointed with a bunch of the sounds on the MOTIF. Apart from the rhodes and piano, the flugelhorn, flute and saxes are pretty cool. The rest are not as good as I would have thought for a keyboard in its price range.

 

The analog leads sound thin and obviously sampled to my ears.... even the 3rd party patches I bought from Motifator are just variations on a theme of what the MOTIF has from the beginning. I think I had better analog lead sounds on my ROland W30 back in 1990. Keyboards like the KS4 and Korg Z1 leave the MOTIF in the dust for analog style leads and synth strings.

 

But its not all bad... the rhodes is cool... damn cool... One thing I like the MOTIF for is for ideas.. its nice to just get something going quick, even though I'd never actually make a whole piece of music on just the one keyboard.

 

Originally posted by ELP71:

Dan - I'm not talking about idomatic playing. I'm VERY familiar with the nuance of acoustic instruments, paticularly brass having done about a zillion arrangements and having conducted live ensembles a bunch o' times.

 

I'm just saying that it boggles my mind that a keyboard (S90, Motif) that 'gets it done' on so many fronts drops the ball so heavily on this one.

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I'm not a big fan of sampled brass. Analog brass or hybrid brass is up my alley. I like the synth brass in the Triton - It was easy to tweek. My old K-3 had decent brass (digital sampled waveform etccc) - I came close to the elusive GX-1 brass sound ala Emo. Why not a library of GX-1 brass for the Motif?
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Believe it or not, my old Casio WK1500 had a very good trumpet sound. One of the few sounds which rose above 'average' or 'workable'.

 

Brass on a keyboard ain't meant to be 'soloed' IMO. If you need that, you need actual brass players. Sampled brass (esp. on romplers) is meant to be part of a groove - and then you need to be careful with it. One or two voices are enough; too many layers and it will definitely sound synthy.

I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist.

 

This ain't no track meet; this is football.

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Originally posted by coyote:

Believe it or not, my old Casio WK1500 had a very good trumpet sound. One of the few sounds which rose above 'average' or 'workable'.

 

Brass on a keyboard ain't meant to be 'soloed' IMO. If you need that, you need actual brass players. Sampled brass (esp. on romplers) is meant to be part of a groove - and then you need to be careful with it. One or two voices are enough; too many layers and it will definitely sound synthy.

I agree with 'solo brass' - eg solo trumpet or sax esp sampled ones - however - skilled analog or digi brass applications can be very nice:

 

John Paul Jones: All of my Love (GX-1)

Geoff Downes: Only Time will Tell (Fairlight?)

ELP - You name it!

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Originally posted by Dave Pierce:

Is it just me or do Yamaha brass sounds generally suck?
For me this sentence would carry even more meaning with the word "Yamaha" removed. :D

 

--Dave

Good point!
Weasels ripped my flesh. Rzzzzzzz.
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