So you wanna be a church organist?

[ITGITC]

We've got a shortage of church organists in America... That to go along with the shortage of bugle players in the army and accordian players in the Air Force (I think it was the Air Force.)

 

Anyway, CLICK HERE if you would like to read the full story.

 

Here's an excerpt that I find interesting:

 

The problem is multifaceted. Organists must be highly trained many hold graduate degrees and spend hours each week practicing difficult musical works.

 

"It's very complicated music 16th-, 17th- and 18th-century compositions," Bagby said. "Also, the organist often is the choir director, and that means additional work.

 

"And not many people want to give up their Sunday every week, 52 times a year," she added. "If you go on vacation, you have to try to find someone who can substitute for you, and that's not easy to do."

 

On top of that, the profession doesn't pay well, discouraging many young musicians, organists say.

 

The American Guild of Organists, a professional organization serving more than 21,000 organ and choral musicians in the United States and abroad, recommends a base salary of about $47,000 to $63,000 for full-time organists holding doctorates; $42,000 to $56,000 for those with master's degrees; and $25,000 to $35,000 for half-time musicians with doctorates. But many churches do not follow those guidelines.

 

On the SSS I recently ranted about Clear Channel Communiations killing the music business - well, radio and concerts for sure. Record companies still can't make up their minds how to distribute music online, stop illegal downloading, charge a fair price and be happy with a reasonable bottom line. But with this it looks like we're being squeezed from the top, the bottom, and all sides too. ...not to mention the lack of funding for music education in our public schools.

 

Sorry for the downer, but the bigger question is - How long will this trend take to run its course and what will it take to turn it around?

 

Is There Gas In The Car?

[b3keys]

I am a church organist. I volunteer at two church services every week. Why? Because I love to play the organ. I play a Hammond M3 Spinet and a Hammond C2 at the services.

 

I do not have a music degree. I started playing in church as a teen and have continued to play. When I want a week off, which isn't often, the church uses a music box, for lack of a better word, that

 

My point is, yes, there is a lack of organists, but the article you mentioned doesn't show the whole side of the story. There are many volunteers who are talented and devoted, too.

[bigchiefSJU]

I am also a church organist, part time. Play a 2-manual Rodgers electronic organ (circa 1980s, not sure of the model) and a Roland XP-60 at two masses a weekend. The problem isn't so much the weekend services--I rarely have problems getting a weekend off if I need it. The problem is feast days and holidays, and in the Catholic Church, there are a lot of them. Christmas is especially problematic. Nobody wants canned music at Christmas, but they might have to on Christmas Day this year since I need to spend some time with family. It's not so much a shortage, it is what the churches demand of the organists versus what they pay them and how much respect and musical freedom they are given. It's especially bad in the Catholic Church because of the eternal power struggle between clergy and lay. But enough ranting.

[gangsu]

"..The problem is multifaceted. Organists must be highly trained many hold graduate degrees and spend hours each week practicing difficult musical works."

 

That's a load of BS. You know why some churches have begun demanding music degrees of their applicants? Because some asshole organist WITH a degree, set the precedent. He's long since quit over some stupid ego-induced conflict, and has left a bewildered congregation unable to find a replacement. Sorry, but insisting that the only capable organist is one with a degree, or a membership in the Organists Guild, is just plain self-defeating.

 

To underline a previous post, there are a lot of capable, underpaid, non-accredited musicians taking up the slack and doing a fine job.

 

..not sure if I addressed the original topic. I'll take another look later.

[Immo]

Yeah I know the organist in my previous church was unpaid. But then again I don't think she knew what the drawbars were for. Heaven help you (no pun intended) if you change the setting that the organ has had for the last two decades.

 

Sadly the electronic pipe organ at the church I've been going to more recently is going mostly unplayed as far as I can tell. I hope I can change that, but then again, I'm a piano player and I've heard organists saying there's organists who play the organ and pianists that play at the organ. Then again maybe that's the guild keeping the man down once again.

 

It's a conspiracy I tell you!!!

[Immo]

Mostly off topic and slightly on...

 

It's also kind of like Wall Street who won't hire anyone that didn't go to an Ivy League school. If you didn't go to one, that means you're dumb and can't work there (with the exception of if your daddy happens to be the CEO).

 

They don't seem to remember people like Sidney Weinberg who started at Goldman Sachs with at most a high school education and went on to be one of their greatest CEO's ever, or Louie Ranieri of Salomon Brothers who essentially created the securitized mortgage industry. He started in their mail room. You'll be hard pressed to get his position without an MBA from Harvard these days.

 

I now apologize for the rant. Down with snobbery! Judge people by whether they have the goods or not.

[DafDuc]

I'm a lifelong keyboardist (I'm 49, started at age 9) who was a music director at a Catholic Church from 1997 - 2002, but only started studying pipe organ in 2002. My (brilliant) prof has a PhD, I'll be lucky if I ever get a bachelor's out of this.

 

There ARE excellent classical organists out there without degrees, but they're the exception - and THEY'VE had years of lessons. Anyone who thinks it's a quick easy transition from piano to pipe organ hasn't done it. The fingering requirements are enough to give me fits - even simple hymntunes require complicated technique to make all the lines legato, but keep separate notes separate.

 

I've had a MUCH easier time transitioning to gospel-style organ: single foot, block chording, lead sheet style accompaniment (anything goes as long as you honor the chord) - that's my main gig now. At the other 3 Catholic churches where I sub, I'm welcome to play the organ anytime, but I stick to piano.

 

Playing pipe organ well requires hours a day of rehearsal - my undiagnosed but all too real A.D.D. prevents that, plus there's that whole old-dog-new-tricks thing. Interestingly, the Bach preludes and fugues are among the easiest things for me to play, because they're so logical: OTOH, with a hymntune, I pretty much have to memorize everything.

 

The biggest challenge for me is the additional level(s) of multitasking required. Memorization of the lines and continual repetition are the only things that seem to work. For me.

 

Unless you have actually spent some time as a pipe organist, don't scoff at the AGO's guidelines. It's a tough, tough discipline. The only reason I could be successful as a music director was because I worked at a "contemporary" parish, where we did mostly lite-rock/folkie style tunes, and I played from guitar charts.

 

A pianist with more classical chops and better reading skills than I have might do okay in a more traditional setting, but I know I'd flounder. Interesting to note that the woman who took my place, with a degree in piano, has had her own trouble living up to the level of performance that I set...

 

Daf

Organist, St. Elizabeth Church, Detroit MI (Hammond A-100, 4 Leslies - this must be heaven, man!)

Accompanist, St. Blase Church, Sterling Heights MI

Accompanist, Ss. John & Paul Church, Washington MI

Accompanist, St. Clement's Church, Romeo, MI

former Director of Music, St. Cornelius Church, Dryden MI

[gangsu]

Originally posted by DafDuc:

I'm a lifelong keyboardist (I'm 49, started at age 9)

 

oh yeah? Well I'm 50, and I started at age 8.

No I'm 51 and star...I forget how old I am. Sometimes I truly believe my kids are older than I am.

 

Look, you make mention of classical masterpieces, and massive pipe organs, as if to say the average congregation likes to pretend they're parishioners of the Cologne Cathedral at high mass. Most churches, and dare I say most clergy, just want to give the people something simple and uplifting to sing about.

 

It's really not a very difficult transition to go from piano to organ. That is, if you've learned good legato technique and voice leading in your piano playing, it's not a huge stretch. The difficulty, is acquiring a degree of facility with your average hymn book! Fortunately, I had a teacher who forced me to play and improvise on a new hymn tune each week. I hated it, but I guess it was good because I've never had to practice for a regular church service. (I can play the pedals too!! )

 

A pipe organ requires more of a mechanical approach than a hammond, since the sound is so delayed. And of course you have to be some kind of wizard to take full advantage of all the stops.

 

That's cool that you're becoming a full-blown pipe organist! There's a ton of very difficult music written for the instrument, that I would NOT be able to play. (without practice )

 

Sue

[Dave The Rave]

If I was playing organ (pipe or 'lectric) in public, I'd want the people to worship ME, not some unseen entity - naaameen?

 

:DTR

[Jeebus]

Originally posted by Dave the Rave:

If I was playing organ (pipe or 'lectric) in public, I'd want the people to worship ME, not some unseen entity - naaameen?

 

:DTR

hehehe

[Immo]

I'm a lifelong piano player and I started at 7. I won't tell you how old I am though .

 

Yeah it's true, I really don't know anything about organs so I shouldn't be ranting. It's not like I've ever been discriminated against by any organists for playing the piano and not having a music degree. I just haven't tried to play the organ. Forget it, throw in foot pedals...I'm sunk.

 

I know it's tough, and I'd love to learn. Until I have the income to support lessons, I'll be sticking with the piano.

[Bartolomeo]

As some of you may know, I'm learning organ, and practice at a nearby church regularly.

 

The job situation for organists is a dichotomy.

 

Larger churches in major cities have paid organists and expect at least a Bachelor's of Music in organ performance or an equivalent level of skill. I believe that the AGO salary guidelines are higher than actual pay in the real world. Oftentimes the position is actually something like "director of music" and involves directing two or more choirs, a certain amount of administration, as well as keyboard duties.

 

Larger churches that pay well and have reasonable expectations and time off as a rule do not appear to have much trouble recruiting organists.

 

The "organist shortage" that is out there is due, more than anything, to smaller churches that are unwilling to offer flexibility and time off. There remains an expectation that organists will play every Sunday without fail. Most musicians don't want to work like that. The second problem is pay. Many churches expect organists to be all things to all people -- play two services on Sunday morning, play weddings and funerals, conduct a choir, and so forth -- and yet are unwilling to pay a living wage. $50 a service is not unheard of; some don't pay at all. As a result, organists must work other jobs and therefore do not have much time for practice, let alone repertoire and technique development.

 

The smaller and midsized churches that have these problems would be well served to offer a Sunday off a month to their organists and have a substitute play on those days; further, they would be better served to pay more.

 

However a vicious cycle develops in that congregations unused to excellence in music are unwilling to pay musicians well. Then they get musicians who don't practice much and just muddle along, and then the congregations want to pay even less.

 

The repertoire is demanding and to really master the instrument you have to play with your feet as competently as you can play with your hands. It's taken me about a year to learn with an average of ten hours of practice a week.

 

Bartolomeo

[joegerardi]

I was a church organist and choir director for 15 years in NY before I moved to Savannah. Mine was a huge church with a smallish (~100) congregation, and a great instrument, and I can tell you that most churches were thrilled to have *any* organist willing to stay with them for any length of time...

 

I started doing it as an easy way to buy new equipment. My salary was dedicated solely to buying what I wanted in new boards, and I turned several other players onto this. One, who was a very poor reader, but was a GREAT improvisor, used to take the hymnal, figure out the chord of the harmony, and "fake book" the piece, and then just improvise the song in the style of the hymn. She was adored by her congregation, and had several other churches try to lure her away to their church, until they found out how she worked, then the offer disappeared...

 

The music isn't difficult, it's really there just to guide the congregation, and incidental music is really just filler. In fact, oft times I used to just comp over a I-VI-IV chord structure - which is used quite a bit in hymns - during the offertory in different styles, usually from Baroque through Romantic, and was actually complimented on my selection of "classical music" many times by the congregation.

 

In these times of waning interest in liturgal positions, the pomposity of the AGO is is killing the churches. Coming from a pompous ass like myself, that's saying something.

 

..Joe

[resigned]

There's one other factor to consider when playing for a church:

 

I played organ in a church here in the South as a young teenager. I also played in a local rock band at the same time (actually more of a pop band that played mostly for junior high dances). When my church director found out that I was playing some non-church music (he caught me practicing some pop music on the church's organ - my mistake) I was asked to leave. Not only that but my mother was recovering from surgery at that time when a group from the church visited her to advise her that her son should find a better line of work than playing in a band. My ultra-supportive mother threw the church group out of her room (literally picked up whatever she could find and threw it at them) and we never went back to that church. I never played for a church again *.

 

Churches sometimes expect you to be a church musician 24/7 and I don't like their walls around my life.

 

* actually - I was invited to play for a local church for Christmas Eve services two years ago. I kept calling every so often to find out when I would rehearse, since they'd asked me in October, and I never got an answer. On Christmas Eve around noon I finally reached the music director who told me that the church had "inadvertedly" filled their Christmas Eve program and didn't need me to play after all, unless I wanted to do short number when they passed the collection plate or something like that. I said no - who needs that kind of inconsideration? Next time I'm approached by a church it won't be a verbal agreement.

[gangsu]

Originally posted by The Pro:

the church had "inadvertedly" filled their Christmas Eve program .

oh let me guess... that must've been a United Church run by a Ms. Minister. The walking wounded, all of them. Incapable of doing their own job so they take it upon themselves to ruin everybody elses. That has been my experience, 100% of the time. No offense.

[Steve in KS]

Originally posted by Dave the Rave:

If I was playing organ (pipe or 'lectric) in public, I'd want the people to worship ME, not some unseen entity - naaameen?

 

:DTR

LOVE IT !

 

(Wouldn't be the first church based on a RAVE!)

[Steve in KS]

Originally posted by gangsu:

Originally posted by The Pro:

the church had "inadvertedly" filled their Christmas Eve program .

oh let me guess... that must've been a United Church run by a Ms. Minister. The walking wounded, all of them. Incapable of doing their own job so they take it upon themselves to ruin everybody elses. That has been my experience, 100% of the time. No offense.

I feel an off-topic rant coming on . . .

[gangsu]

Originally posted by Steve in KS:

I feel an off-topic rant coming on . . .

No no rant coming on here, just off-topic.

 

I thought I'd give myself a test. I decided to try playing one hymn while singing another. I picked "As the Deer" to play (since somebody posted a link recently so it came to mind), and I tried singing Holy Holy Holy (which was the second thing that came to mind). Well, I can't do it. I seriously thought I should be able to. It's a stunning realization!

 

And I wanted to ask about the keys on this CONN organ I played today. They're shaped like front teeth. Curved underneath. Is there a style name for that type of key? Thing is, I would never have noticed before coming here, so I figure I might as well ask.

[ksoper]

Amazing that this should come up...

 

Although I haven't played a pipe organ in several years, it's the instrument I know the best. I played in churches in South Jersey from the ages of 12 to 19. It was always assumed by my parents that I'd end up teaching at a university and keeping a church position. That was my goal, anyway.

 

When I went off to Indiana University to study organ I found myself immersed in a truly foreign culture, that of the college-level organ student. I felt disconnected from this bunch and moved as quickly as I could toward pop music and jazz.

 

And I also knew that an organist's salary was paltry in most churches. I dropped out of IU and went home to join a Top 40 band.

 

But now I'm looking at the back side of my touring career. And the back side is sagging, I'm afraid. I picked up an E. Power Biggs cd the other day because I needed some Bach in my life and was overpowered by the urge to return to the console. We're about to move to a college town near Nashville and I'm going to hunt down an organ professor. I want to study again, get my chops back up, and find a church with a decent instrument where I can practice and possibly fill in. I'll easily be able to pick up weddings and funerals, and eventually I'll latch onto a full-time church gig.

 

My bachelor's degree may help me secure a gig. My chops and willingness to work will help me more. And while they may have a little trouble with a d*pe-smoking agnostic playing their hymns, they'll be damn glad to not have to find a replacement. There really aren't enough organists.

 

Oh---and one more thing: Pianists who later take up organ still sound like pianists. The transition isn't as obvious or easy as you may think.

 

Discuss.

 

k.

[gangsu]

I only studied pipe organ for one year. It was a deal struck by the United Brethern in Christ Church in New Dundee (ever heard of it? NO), that they would pay for the lessons, and I would replace the retiring organist. I was about 17 at the time. Never asked for the job, didn't want it, but those small town congregations have a way of pulling you into a guilt trip that I've never quite resolved. That's really off-topic

 

It was terribly difficult. All of a sudden I'm faced with this monster instrument, don't even remember the make. And don't ask me why I had to start off with Healy Willan's Little Organ Book. There's nothing little about it.

 

Anyway, I did the job for a year, was a nervous wreck every sunday morning, and got out of it by leaving the country. If I'd stayed, I'm sure I'd still be cranking out the same old sad story.

 

I no longer try to play legit 3-stave organ scores. I simply pedal the bass, and keep the chords fairly open. I don't sound like a piano player, playing the organ. But I don't sound like a bonafide organist either.

 

*what made that situation even more ridiculous, in retrospect, is that while my lessons were on a pipe organ, I had to perform (or should i say 'worship') on a hammond. Aaarrrrrghhh.

[Immo]

I might be able to live with myself if it were said that an organist never quite sounds like a piano player when going in that direction.

[jay da cop]

I don't pretend to be a church "organist", but I do play in a contemporary church band, and my idea of an organ is my NI B4, running from an M-Audio Radium 61. I know that is sacriligious to many, but welcome to contemporary praise and worship. I am inclined to agree that the reason there are not as many organists as positions in more traditional churches is the time and energy to learn, and the pay. Most small to medium sized churches just don't have the funding to pay well enough for a very talented organist. Most of these churches do well to carry their monthly bills, and pay their clergy something to live on (my father-in-law is a pastor, and makes $250 a week. Granted the church pays most of his living expenses as he lives in the parsonage, but do you think you could live on that?).

 

Anyway, enough of that. Give me the more modern P&W stuff (David Crowder, Paul Colman Trio, Phillips, Craig and Dean, etc.) and I am happy. Maybe it's just the rebellious rocker in me. I'd be happy if they picked up my keyboard lessons.

 

Jay

[DafDuc]

Originally posted by The Pro:

There's one other factor to consider when playing for a church:

 

I played organ in a church here in the South as a young teenager. I also played in a local rock band at the same time (actually more of a pop band that played mostly for junior high dances). When my church director found out that I was playing some non-church music (he caught me practicing some pop music on the church's organ - my mistake) I was asked to leave.

 

Churches sometimes expect you to be a church musician 24/7 and I don't like their walls around my life.

 

I think it may depend on the denomination, and sometimes the specific location. I know my first parish, in WV, the guy who ran the Saturday night mass played jazz piano in a local trio - sometimes the trio would come in and play too. Very cool, especially when they'd fire up Ernest Sands' "Sing of the Lord's Goodness" - essentially the "Take Five" chart with a different melody: you can tell the hard-core jazzers cos they still work that 6/4 bar into the turnaround in the bridge, even though the entire Sands tune is in 5/4.

 

OTOH, I also have a friend who recommends strongly that a career organist never live in the town in which he/she is employed, due to the whole prying eyes phenomenon. Given the large proportion of gay men in that profession, that may be prudent.

 

THIS boring old grandpa, though, ain't got much to worry about. And when I mention to a church that I'm a member of an old-skool funk-jazz-fusion collective, they usually want to know how much we'd charge to play the next picnic, LOL.

 

Daf