New Rhodes Vote

[hermanjoe]

How many people would consider buying a new production rhodes piano, provided it eventually happens?

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Can't answer that with yes or no. I'd have to play it, hear it, see it, find out how much it weighs, before I could make a decision.

[Carlito]

Can't answer that with yes or no. I'd have to play it, hear it, see it, find out how much it weighs, before I could make a decision.

And how much it costs.

[Jazz+]

Oh how much does it weigh? I would not want one that weighed over 60 pounds. I think of Rhodes as a gig piano, not a home piano. There are lots of the old heavy ones around for less than what they would charge for a new one, probably many thousands of dollars.

[Geoff Grace]

I would consider it. Therefore, I voted "yes."

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[hermanjoe]

I guess I imagine a new rhodes piano as one that sounds as good as a classic, but more reliable, has more features, more light weight, plays like a dream, and looks just as great as the old ones did when they first were manufactured.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Carlito:

Can't answer that with yes or no. I'd have to play it, hear it, see it, find out how much it weighs, before I could make a decision.

And how much it costs.

Agreed.

 

dB

[Mark Zeger]

Somewhere way back in the KC archives, we had a discussion going about the possible price of a "new Rhodes". I searched but couldn't find it. IIRC, we arrived at a likely price of something like $4000-5000.

[Reverend Rhythm]

I wonder how many units Suzki/Hammond sold of their big two manual B3?

 

That might give a clue?

 

I would consider it, but size and price would be a factor.

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Originally posted by Mark Zeger:

Somewhere way back in the KC archives, we had a discussion going about the possible price of a "new Rhodes". I searched but couldn't find it. IIRC, we arrived at a likely price of something like $4000-5000.

I think that's sheer speculation.

 

As for my own sheer speculation, I have a hunch it could be done for a lot less. If it can't, it will probably never happen.

[JeffLearman]

I have a rhodes and it sits in my attic. In the near future, when I get a better studio set up (rather than the little studio alcove in my living room), I'll set it up in there ... and then sample it, unless by then I've found a software version to my liking.

 

Of course, a new production rhodes would have MIDI in and out, right? I mean, since we're dreaming ... well, with MIDI I'd only need the software version for playing out.

 

My rig is tiny compared to what it used to be (Now: MR76, laptop, powered mixer, 2 12" floor monitors. Then: Yamaha CP70 grand, Rhodes, synths du-jour, powered mixer, 12" floor monitors.) But still it's too heavy and too much to move thanks to my darn rotary cuff tear.

 

I do miss the CP70, but I sure don't miss lugging it around.

[hermanjoe]

I have to say I'm surprised so many people wouldn't at least consider the possiblilty of owning a new production rhodes. Provided it's every bit as good as the original. It seems theres more talk about what sample is good, or the best, and what keyboard has the best rhodes sound. I have gone through all that myslef. Someone pointed out on the thread about the scarbee rhodes that "if you want a rhodes, buy a rhodes." I am just surprised that more of us wouldn't want to own the genuine article or a reproduction of it. Just curious, why is that?

[Steve LeBlanc]

I'd consider it...probably not since I never have much money

[Geoff Grace]

Originally posted by Mr. Anonymous:

Originally posted by Mark Zeger:

Somewhere way back in the KC archives, we had a discussion going about the possible price of a "new Rhodes". I searched but couldn't find it. IIRC, we arrived at a likely price of something like $4000-5000.

I think that's sheer speculation.

Of course this is speculation as well, but at least it's based on possibly relevant info:

 

If I recall correctly, I paid about $800 new for my Rhodes in 1975. After factoring in inflation, that would make the SRP for a new Rhodes today roughly $3,000 (presuming that the cost of parts and labor has remained about the same in relationship to the general cost of living).

 

Calculated by The Inflation Calculator :

What cost $800 in 1975 would cost $2,852.11 in 2003.

(Note: estimating cost in 2004 dollars is not yet possible, because the inflation rate for 2004 won't be known until the year is over.)

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[mate stubb]

Originally posted by hermanjoe:

I have to say I'm surprised so many people wouldn't at least consider the possiblilty of owning a new production rhodes. Provided it's every bit as good as the original.

Cause the original ain't that great. I carried a stage 88 for several years on the road and it sucked. The action was almost unplayable. I modified the action with all the current tricks known at the time, and it still sucked. The weight was blinding. You couldn't stack anything on the top without buying the supremely expensive and ugly corrugated flat top. On top of that, the sound of mine wasn't that special. I've heard great sounding Rhodes pianos, but never played one that played worth a crap.

[cnegrad]

I have to agree. We've all heard great Rhodes on recordings, but how many of us can actually say that we've ever actually played one that sounded and felt that good in person? And who would want to carry one around with them?

 

No thanks, my Motif ES will do me just fine.

[orangefunk]

These are all good points, I think there is a lot of romanticism with the rhodes. I have one (a 1976 Stage Mk1) thats been completely overhauled with all kinds of modern things... clarifiers, key ped mod, MkV dampers etc etc.. but I mostly play the Motif and Reason 2.5 samples!

 

A rhodes today would be great, but there are plenty of old ones around. I can't imagine many people paying $3-4k for one but that will be the price... in the UK they were "£800" in 1975 never mind $800!

 

Also I reckon there would still be discussions about the older ones being better so you gotta ask yourself ...why bother?

[hermanjoe]

You guys all have good points. I guess the impression I get is that a new rhodes or any rhodes isn't worth the hassle, and we are satified with good samples from yamaha, electro, scarbee, ect... I can see that. I would still consider a new or vintage rhodes. provided it played weel and the sound was good.

 

edit -

 

I would like to add the part of my attraction to the rhodes is it's ability to sound great through a twin reverb or other tube amps. Playing a rhodes like that with some effects and a little grit has balls that can't be duplicated.

[burningbusch]

Originally posted by hermanjoe:

You guys all have good points. I guess the impression I get is that a new rhodes or any rhodes isn't worth the hassle, and we are satified with good samples from yamaha, electro, scarbee, ect... I can see that. I would still consider a new or vintage rhodes. provided it played weel and the sound was good.

 

Man this is sad. I wonder what live and recorded music would sound like if all drummers used V-drums instead of acoustic drums? And all bass/guitar players used an electronic equivilent. And sax players used wind controllers exclusively. Wouldn't music sound great?

 

The criticisms above leveled at old Rhodes could be applied to acoustic pianos, even more so. They're almost always out of tune and need regulation. How many sound like an artist series Steinway D? Let's just use samples.

 

As far as a new one is concerned, I don't know if it makes a lot of business sense. The used market is strong and there are plenty of parts available. The Rhodes is a fairly basic instrument that's easy to repair and was well built.

 

Personally, I much prefer playing the real thing. It sounds and responds significantly better than the digital emulations. Not even close.

 

Busch.

[b3keys]

New rhodes? Absolutely, positively - NOT!

 

Why? There are so many great sounding rhodes "sounds" available - Motif, Roland, Scarbee, Nord Electro.

 

I don't see the point.

[cnegrad]

Busch,

 

Sorry man, but the above posts seem to illustrate that while we LOVE the Rhodes sounds that we hear on recordings, our own personal experiences with the average on-the-street Rhodes have been less than stellar. The Rhodes I've played have usually been muddy, clunky beasts that are a PITA to lift. These days, I'm overjoyed to turn on my Motif ES, and have just about every famous Rhodes sound that I've ever heard, wanted or needed.

 

It really would've been something if the Rhodes manufacturers could've hired the Dyno-My-Piano people to do their modifications before each instrument left the factory. Now there's an idea!

[guestuserguestuser.com]

But, what if someone could manufacture a new, improved Rhodes, that is better than the original, in every way? To me, that seems to be the proper goal here, not just making an exact replica of the original. If you're going to make a new one, why not improve it? Make it lighter, with better keyboard action, more responsive to velocity, able to select different voice types (Stage, Suitcase, Dyno, something new), easier to maintain, modify, and repair, cheaper, more durable, maybe with MIDI, maybe with a digital piano thrown in. I mean, why not? If you never set challenging goals, you never reach them.

 

If this type of Rhodes++ existed, I'd sure be interested.

[Immo]

Originally posted by Geoff Grace:

[QB(Note: estimating cost in 2004 dollars is not yet possible, because the inflation rate for 2004 won't be known until the year is over.)

[/QB]

Sure it is, CPI comes out monthly. We can bring it to present at least.

[SoundMeister]

Originally posted by Mr. Anonymous:

If you're going to make a new one, why not improve it? Make it lighter, with better keyboard action, more responsive to velocity, able to select different voice types (Stage, Suitcase, Dyno, something new), easier to maintain, modify, and repair, cheaper, more durable, maybe with MIDI, maybe with a digital piano thrown in.

Absolutely.

 

IMHO, the keyboard action of the old Rhodes alone warrants a redesign. Midi would be nice, too!

 

~Peter Schouten

Pyramid Sound Productions

Your source for "Real Rhodes"

[burningbusch]

Originally posted by cnegrad:

Busch,

 

These days, I'm overjoyed to turn on my Motif ES, and have just about every famous Rhodes sound that I've ever heard, wanted or needed.

 

And if you heard/played either my Mark V or Suitcase and A/Bed them against the Motif I am quite certain you'd find the Motif thin, cold, less responsive, predictable and vastly less fun to play than the originals. Everyone in my band commented how great the real Rhodes sounded after the first gig. And I think the Yamaha Rhodes are pretty good (I own a Motif ES8, S90 and Motif Rack).

 

Yes you do have to work to get a good sound. But so do guitar players. Have you ever found a guitar player who picked up a strat off the shelf, plugged it in to an amp and found the perfect sound? Rather they have it set up/modified, run it through a bunch of pedals and then the right amp in order to get the sound they're after. A Rhodes is much the same.

 

Busch.

[cnegrad]

why not improve it? Make it lighter, with better keyboard action, more responsive to velocity, able to select different voice types (Stage, Suitcase, Dyno, something new), easier to maintain, modify, and repair, cheaper, more durable, maybe with MIDI, maybe with a digital piano thrown in. I mean, why not? If you never set challenging goals, you never reach them.

Fair enough. If it met all these "fantasy criteria", then I'd be very interested. Of course, I'd have to play and hear it to believe it.....

if you heard/played either my Mark V or Suitcase and A/Bed them against the Motif I am quite certain you'd find the Motif thin, cold, less responsive, predictable and vastly less fun to play than the originals.

Also fair enough. It would be stupid of me to argue that a sampled Rhodes would ever be preferable to the real deal. Especially when it's a Rhodes that you've evidentally upgraded and maintained to perfection. (I assume that you'll also carry it around for me from gig to gig?) But from a practical standpoint, you've got to admit that for someone who only uses the Rhodes as one color in an infinite pallete of sounds, the Motif ES is a great choice. If I were playing in a situation where the Rhodes was needed the majority of the time, perhaps an actual Rhodes might make more sense.

 

But I'd consider the above-dreamed super-duper-ultra-lighter-mega Rhodes if and when I was able to hear it and play it for myself. If it sounded and felt THAT GOOD, heck yeah, I guess that I'd consider it. But it would have to be a very special beast to warrant carrying something that big around.

[Geoff Grace]

Originally posted by Immordino:

Originally posted by Geoff Grace:

(Note: estimating cost in 2004 dollars is not yet possible, because the inflation rate for 2004 won't be known until the year is over.)

Sure it is, CPI comes out monthly. We can bring it to present at least.

It's true that while we can't calculate the inflation rate for 2004 as a whole, it is possible to know what the inflation rate for 2004 so far has been. Unfortunately, the calculator I use that I linked to above only provides the year as a whole service.

 

If you can provide a link to an online calculator that gives the answer as to what a product purchased in December of 1975 would cost in August of 2004, I'd love to know about it.

 

Thanks.

 

Originally posted by orangefunk:

A rhodes today would be great, but there are plenty of old ones around. I can't imagine many people paying $3-4k for one but that will be the price... in the UK they were "£800" in 1975 never mind $800!

orangefunk, is the price you mentioned based on your recollection or do you know that price for certain? Maybe I'm remembering wrong. It's been nearly thirty years, after all!

 

I do remember that the dollar and pound were roughly equal at one point, but it turns out that was in 1985. ( Source )

 

I did an Internet search to see if I could come up with the price in dollars of a Rhodes back in 1975. Although I was unsuccessful, I did come up with some links of interest:

 

Rhodes Super Site - FenderRhodes.com

 

Rhodes Service Manual

 

I also discovered this bit regarding the price in pounds of a Rhodes back in 1975. However, it's based on recollection as well:

 

Originally posted at ChaosTheoryOnline :

Keyboards - Fender Rhodes Stage 73 Electric Piano: I have owned this keyboard from new. This was 1975 I think. I can remember paying £575 for it from an organ shop in Northampton and having to borrow my mothers car to fetch it as it wouldn't fit into my Mini.

I'd love to find a webpage that authoritatively provides the original Rhodes prices from its years of production!

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[eric]

My take on this is that there aren't many folks willing to slide over the cash for a "one-trick pony" like a Rhodes EP, if indeed it was built to 2004 specs and had a price in the range of $3k. It would be a niche, boutique market not very friendly towards mass production.

 

The crowd that uses real Rhodes are the same folks carting around real tonewheel Hammonds and Leslies, plus CP80s and Prophet 5 synths. Doubtful that these purists would want a "modern" Rhodes.

 

Does anyone remember the Roland version of Rhodes pianos? I think they made an Mk60 and Mk80 or something like that, back in the early-mid 90s. These were S/A attempts at the Rhodes sound, with a couple of other sounds built in. Somewhat of an extension of the early MKS/RD piano sound. They were not heavy sellers, though they were decent instruments for the time.

 

I think that purists are better off finding a vintage, mint Rhodes for $1500 plus and using that. Otherwise, most keyboard players are looking for more than one sound in their keyboard and will do just fine with a Motif ES, Electro, or whatever. These solutions sound great in a mix and the feel is very good. I did play a real Rhodes back in the 80s and loved it (especially through a JC120 amp)...but I would not want to go back to that rig and try to carry it around to gigs today.

 

Regards,

Eric

[b_3guy]

I paid $1795 CAN for a Rhodes Mk I Stage Piano, with 73 keys, in 1975. It was a bad one. Hit it too hard it choked, hit it too soft no sound. I did a straight trade 4 months later for a Wurlitzer. The asking price on it was $1395. I was a happy camper because compered to the Rhodes the Wurli played like a dream. At that time $1.10 Can bought a US Dollar or $2.60 Can bought £1 sterling.

[orangefunk]

Originally posted by Geoff Grace:

 

Originally posted by orangefunk:

A rhodes today would be great, but there are plenty of old ones around. I can't imagine many people paying $3-4k for one but that will be the price... in the UK they were "£800" in 1975 never mind $800!

orangefunk, is the price you mentioned based on your recollection or do you know that price for certain? Maybe I'm remembering wrong. It's been nearly thirty years, after all!

 

I do remember that the dollar and pound were roughly equal at one point, but it turns out that was in 1985. Best,

 

Geoff

Hi geoff, I have a load of UK music magazines from 1972-79 and the price seems to fluctuate quite a bit. I definitely recall the rhodes 73 in 1978 being around £575 like you say, and the suitcase being around £800 or so... thing is I think these were at a sale price and not the MSRP

 

Also I seem to recall that the rhodes actually got cheaper, I'm also fairly sure in the early 70s it was actually more expensive.. maybe rhodesmusic were able to save money by using plastic hammers and improved mass production techniques?

 

Finally, anything thats from the US was much more expensive than buying it from the US. Polymoogs, Oberheims and Prophet 5s had a price of around £3k I think... the Polymoog esp was ultra expensive... maybe almost pushing 4k!! What makes that weird is that my parents "house" was about 4k in 1975!!

 

I must scan those ads, but everythings locked away atm, I'll try and get back to it in the future