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Why Not Synths with Unlimited Polyphony?


jah3

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This is not quite accurate. A concert grand piano, with often two and sometimes three strings per note, has upwards of 200-voice polyphony.

 

An organ has as much polyphony as it has pipes or tonewheels. A Hammond console, which has 122 keys and 25 pedals, has 91-voice polyphony to achieve full polyphony for all keys & pedals simultaneously.

 

Polyphony will always be an issue, especially among the sequencer crowd. 128 voices can get chewed up pretty quickly if your sound module is being programmed with many layers, a few different dense harmonic parts, and rhythmic accompaniment.

 

Originally posted by felix.:

A piano doesn't have unlimited polyphony - it has 88-note polyphony. An organ only has as much polyphony as it has keys (and pedals too, I suppose).

Some time soon, standard polyphony on most synths and keyboards will be enough that it is no longer an issue. 128 note polyphony is already a bunch, and this is pretty much the current measuring stick.

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Originally posted by coyote:

This is not quite accurate. A concert grand piano, with often two and sometimes three strings per note, has upwards of 200-voice polyphony.

...

That is not quite accurate either, but and interpretation of the definition of polyphony that more closely describes oscillators or sound generators. Modern ROMplers define polyphony as number of oscillators, and state that they have up to a set amount of polyphony. If I use simple one oscillator programs my XV-5080 will have 128 note polyphony but it is very easy to knock it down to 32 note polyphony. A MemoryMoog has 6 voice polyphony and 18 oscillators. Each voice always has 3 oscillators available and those oscillators cannot be separated out to provide more polyphony. The same is true with a piano. Though it may have approximately 200 strings but unless you open the top and play those strings with something other than the hammer you will not exceed 88 note polyphony. And that is the key, polyphony is based on how many notes, not have many sound generators. Most any ROMpler manual will state that using multiple oscillators will reduce polyphony.

 

Counting polyphony on an organ can be a bit tricky. Do you set the limit by the number of keys or by the number of tone wheels? One might think that when all 91 tone wheels are in operation then the organs sound is maxed out. This is not entirely true. The tone of the organ can continue to change depending on what keys are pressed. Consider this example. Create a simple drawbar setting for the top manual with 16 at full and 8 at 1/2. Play a low C and you have two tone wheels in operation. For the bottom manual set both 16 and 8 at full and then play the same C on both manuals. Same two tone wheels in use but the sound is different.

 

Robert

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The Korg Delta, a cheapo unit from the 70s that combined a very basic 1 osc analog synth with a "string machine," had "unlimited polyphony," albeit mon-timbral, obviously. Apparently, this was due to its use of inferior "divide down" technology (I don't know what that means, but I do know that all of my Ds went dead at the same time.)
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I'm sure someone has articulated this principle better than I'm about to, but it seems to me the iron law of computer evolution is that, no matter how powerful a computer is made, people will always find a "need" to program it beyond the limits of its capacity.

 

So I suppose that if, say 4,092 voice polyphony becomes the norm, someone will devise a way to program say, a virtual piano a little better than all predecessors if only you could have 8,192 polyphony. Maybe 32 velocity-triggered layers of reverb multi-sampled from different physical points inside and outside the piano lid....who knows? Somebody will think of something valid enough, and drive the computer to it's very limit and wish for yet more.

 

I guess what I think about more are the practical needs for polyphony given the instruments we use day-to-day. You could up the polyphony of all my synths and samplers 20 times and I don't think it would make a appreciable impact on the music I make with them - even in my densest sequencing.

 

M Peasley

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Someone tell me what in the world they would do with 1024-note polyphony. Or even 256-note for that matter. Something worthwhile, I mean.

You wouldn't need it with a band, but if you were doing arrangements on a workstation (or a sequenced solo act) it could be important. You wouldn't have that many notes at a time on any one individual instrument, but what if you're working up something orchestral? And then consider that a lot of programs layer up to four voices. Each voice counts against your polyphony, so you divide it by four. So, if you're using all programs with 4-voice layers, your 256-note polyphony is reduced to 64. If you started with 64, it's reduced to 16. Now, let's say you've got a 64-voice workstation, and you're working up something orchestral: strings and brass with full chords, and not just generic synth string and brass sounds, but actual sections: violins, violas, trumpets, horns. You won't get far before you need a second sound source. That's where big polyphony is an asset.

Even a simple solo piano will wind up dropping voices on a 64-voice synth and a 4-layer patch with sustain pedal. Remember, your practical polyphony is down to 16 at that point. A side benefit of added polyphony is greater ability to layer sounds.

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That's when it would really be nice to have as much polyphony as possible. The more voices you have in a program, or heavy sequencing, will really tax polyphony in a hurry. Though Kurzweil I guess seemed to stick with 24 notes on the K2000 if I recall correctly, and about 48 notes? on the 2500, and probably 2600 as well. Of course I don't own any Kurzweil equipment right now, so I can't really comment too much on how they manage it.
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