Skip_dup1 Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Hey all Well we had our big holiday show last weekend-I must say, it went really well. The audience started goin coconuts after the second song or so, the dance area was basically full until we finished. Moreover, I was talking about it to someone the next day, and the person said that someone I had invited to the show, a mutual training partner, had called him and said something like, `Skip was so casual about it, like "ya, we`re playing at Xanadu"-it`s only the hottest club in Tokyo` Huh???? I had no idea, but it does explain a few things-like why I couldn`t get a glass of water, I had to pay-for water. [i]For the band![/i] It explains why a little freakin bottle of water was $4.00. It also explains why, after the gig, we were all asked to pay for a ticket to the event even though I, for one, hadn`t had any of the buffet. That`s right-basically it was pay-to-play, rearing its butt-ugly head. So I guess the question is, should I be happy that we were able to play a great set at a top club, or should someone be getting yelled at? I mean, I was put on the spot to support a system I flatly disagree with. Even one of the other singers was speaking up about it. At the very least we should have been told before about having to buy tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_dup3 Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Japan has always had ( & still has) a very different culture & set of mores---but you're there & you know that. What sort of event was this? (you mention a buffet---was that a regular part of the places public presentation or part of some particular event?) I've always wondered ( & forgive me if you've explained this elsewhere) but what brought you to Japan, anyway, Skip? ...& what's Qoo taste like? :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshananigan Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 The only place I saw bands in Japan were in central park in Nagoya, playing for free! It's this 1x4 block crisscross of sidewalks and benches where bands set up on weekends and blare away. If you position yourself correctly, you can enjoy 4 bands at once! I suppose most bands get the $$$ thing set before accepting a gig, no matter where you are. Savvy and non-commital Japanese club owners can be, I reckon they would break down eventually. good luck & jaa ne! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 d- The buffet was for this particular event. It was a Christmas party. Interesting side note-there were a few acts on before us, playing a few songs each. One of them is this moody singer-songwriter guy, really interesting music. I found out that his uncle is the original singer on the Japan classic `Sukiyaki`. Anyway, I feel like we got blindsided, since one of our members was handling negotiations with the club. I was not expecting pay, but even less expecting the opposite. The musicians (all Japanese) didn`t seem to be surprised, but the singers (3 out of 4 foreign) were a lot less happy. I`d say again, whatever the situation we should have been told before. Anyway, we were in that post-gig bliss state, and nobody really wanted to get into it at the time. As far as my situation here, I lived in Taiwan for five years back in the 80s as a language student, so I knew Asia fairly well. But during my time there I never had a chance to visit Japan. After I went back to the states I started working on a teaching certificate. I was working as a corporate recruiter for Coca-cola, and less than thrilled with it, when I heard about the J.E.T. program from a co-worker. Even though I didn`t fit their typical profile I was accepted, and I`ve been here ever since. To be honest, part of why I dig being out here is the access to cool gigs-I don`t even wanna think about what it would take to get a similar gig in a super club in, say, Miami or New York. I`d probably have to cut my finger and swear allegiance to a snake cult. I`ve also got a T.V. program going. I mean, it`s not Universal Studios, but they wouldn`t let me park a car there anyway-screw them. Hanshananigan-like, do you mind if I call you Han, or something? The train stations really do get some good groups going at times. I especially like the Andean quartet that plays in the summer-do they get out Nagoya way? a couple of stations have installed those obnoxious media screens, I swear it`s like they`re trying to chase the live bands away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNC Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Well I don't know about Japan, but here it depends on your rep as a band. If you guys are the baddest in town, abd everyone knows it, then they should be showing you some respect since people are there to see you. If you are unknown, and the club is sooooo exclusive that it is a previlage to be there, then I would put up with a little more bs in order to prove myself(and band). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 BNC- Ya, BUT... I mean, I can just hear `Battle Hymn of the Republic` in the background while I`m typing this, but I think musicians have to stand up to pay-to-play. It wasn`t like we were playing original music-now that would be different. We got to sneak in one song each from people who had originals, but they were in a medley and unannounced. It`s only when people who [i]could[/i] play at a certain club but won`t, because of pay-to-play, that the madness will stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshananigan Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by skip: [b] Hanshananigan-like, do you mind if I call you Han, or something? The train stations really do get some good groups going at times. I especially like the Andean quartet that plays in the summer-do they get out Nagoya way? a couple of stations have installed those obnoxious media screens, I swear it`s like they`re trying to chase the live bands away.[/b][/quote]Han? sure! I lived in Gifu for 2 years, 96-98, but I suppose the James Dean wannabees are still twisting away to boombox Chubby Checker in the stations... Best of luck making a dent! Although I wasn't in a position to find a "scene" while there, it didn't really jump out and hit you in the face- if I heard correctly, big bands are usually "created", not worked their way to the top in a tourvan, yeah? Well, maybe you'll help change that- good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshananigan Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by skip: [b] Hanshananigan-like, do you mind if I call you Han, or something? The train stations really do get some good groups going at times. I especially like the Andean quartet that plays in the summer-do they get out Nagoya way? a couple of stations have installed those obnoxious media screens, I swear it`s like they`re trying to chase the live bands away.[/b][/quote]Han? sure! I lived in Gifu for 2 years, 96-98, but I suppose the James Dean wannabees are still twisting away to boombox Chubby Checker in the stations... Best of luck making a dent! Although I wasn't in a position to find a "scene" while there, it didn't really jump out and hit you in the face- if I heard correctly, big bands are usually "created", not worked their way to the top in a tourvan, yeah? Well, maybe you'll help change that- good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNC Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Skip- I agree with what your saying, I hate pay to play and will not do it. I guess it depends on how bad the situation is. I reread the orignal post, I would be pissed to pay $40 for food I didn't eat, and I would speak(not yell, at least at first ;) ) to someone about it. I will, however, take lower pay, and sometimes pro bona if I feel the exposure and connections is worth it, or if it is a favor to a friend (those come back your way you know ;) ). I do my best not to step into one of those 4-punk-bands-a-night-for-no-pay places. And usually, if a club says they don't pay much because of the great exposure, they are usually giving you a big stinking load of it :mad: Sorry about the vent, but I do feel better :D Only take crap like that if you know it will pay off later (like record exec in the audience or owner of another club coming to check you out). I got stuck in a similar situation in Aug. We were hired to play at a fancy country club for a dinner theu were having. First, they say we have to wear this waitor shirts (the black one that they all wear) because it was a black tie affair (we were not notified about that). second, the club said it was from time a to time b, when we were told it was time a to half an hour earlier than time b. Well, we wore the shirts and did not complain, and I got an extra $25 for the extended play, and they gave us dinner (reallllly nice dinner). It wasn't that bad, but it was annoying. It seems the person that booked it got her logistics mixed up... and I kept the shirt ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 Han- Yeah, I see the greaser dancers in Yoyogi park in Tokyo all the time. It`s a little unnerving that they can`t seem to get any girls to do the bobby sox thing... BNC- There was a dress code for this show too, though not quite the same. The band actually chipped in to get me a fur jacket-with nothing under it. I probably could have gotten it for really cheap but I passed-the snakeskin pants are memento enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 d- I forgot to ask-what on earth is Qoo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_dont_fret Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Skip, there's no way you can call him Han. My girlfriend is named Han. Of course, she's from Vietnam, so it may be of some difference. But anywho, Hanshahshsfsnasdfsd, refuse him calling you Han!!! I compel you. Actually, it's all good. Just makes me sad seeing her name, as she's not yet back from boot camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by The patrick of Christmas future: [b]Skip, there's no way you can call him Han. My girlfriend is named Han. Of course, she's from Vietnam, so it may be of some difference. But anywho, Hanshahshsfsnasdfsd, refuse him calling you Han!!! I compel you. Actually, it's all good. Just makes me sad seeing her name, as she's not yet back from boot camp.[/b][/quote]well I gotta do something here, buddy-the guy makes my fingers tired! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_dont_fret Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Like I said, it's all good. I feel yer pain. That's why I put Han- and then a whole bunch of nonsense. Easier, and I figure he'll know what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T. Ehl Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 what is interesting here is that the water was only $4 i have been to movie theatres and hockey games where water is $3 here in the united states you can not get mad at them for making you pay for the buffet but at the same time they can not get mad at you for boycotting it you learn something about their culture they learn something about yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by T. Ehl: [b]what is interesting here is that the water was only $4 i have been to movie theatres and hockey games where water is $3 here in the united states you can not get mad at them for making you pay for the buffet but at the same time they can not get mad at you for boycotting it you learn something about their culture they learn something about yours[/b][/quote]it wasn`t a boycott-I just never got a chance to eat anything. The water is $3.00 at a hockey game. Okay, well imagine being on one of the teams, needing a drink of water and getting charged $3.00. In any case, it has since been explained to me that what we paid for was a private party-there was some profit from ticket sales but the money collected was for buffet service and equipment rental. The club made money from drinks but not directly from us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendrix Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Just before I left japan in '96 the sunday band scene in yoyogi park had been called off. They no longer closed the street down. I was really disappointed to see that. Is the scene now back on again?? What a blast that was. - Even tho most of the bands sucked the pure energy and the wild crowd made it all worthwhile. Skip, is that club in the Shibuya section? I took a business trip to tokyo last month - first time in 4 years. Man I miss it. I must say the scene in Roppongi at night has gotten quite a bit ruder than it used to be. There were actually street walkers propositioning business men as they walked by. This did not used to happen. Too bad its losing some of its "character" Regarding the pay for play deal. I'm totally with ya- but it sounds as if the communication break may have been between yourself and the guy in the band that made the arrangements. It also sounds as if you might have done the gig anyway - So, why not focus on the positive? Check out some tunes here: http://www.garageband.com/artist/KenFava Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 The thing that gets me here is, if there were no MUSIC provided-by either band or DJ-people would avoid the place in droves. The entertainment being provided is any club's main draw. That you all had to pay for amenities after providing the draw of entertainment, entertainment the club owner probably charged a cover for, is gouging of the slimiest kind! I don't give a shit WHAT country you're in! If that club owner is going to pull stunts like that, he'd be better off switching to karaoke! Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNC Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 [quote]the snakeskin pants are memento enough. [/quote]Haha :D You cab't be a rock star without some proper exotic skin pants :cool: ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 Ya, I just think the band members shouldn`t have had to pay-I mean, we paid for rehearsals, for getting to the place, for water-enough should have been enough. In any case, the guy who was handling the negotiations sent me an apologetic e-mail. Regardless of this situation, pay-to-play is a real annoyance around here-and I don`t care about `culture differences` either, in that case. A boot up the rump doesn`t feel any different in Jakarta than it does in Jersey City. The band scene in Yoyogi park is still going on-there`s a side street beside the station that shuts down. What kills me is the crowd itself-what do they call it, `cosplay`? Frenkenstein hanging out with Little Bo Peep, who`s waving to a character from a comic book. Too much. Roppongi has gotten downright dangerous, after a certain hour. So has Kabukicho-there appears to be some turf disagreements between the local gangs and newcomers from China, etc. As far as the propositions, there are some great ones in Akasaka. A lot of the girls appear to be from Taiwan and we... I think I`m getting off the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Skip, what happened to you and your band mates is wrong, just plain wrong. I can understand them witholding food if you didn't pay for the buffet. But insisting you pay, regardless of whether you were eating is highway robbery. As for paying for water, that is completely uncalled for. Sounds like your band needs to have a meeting to determine the minimum requirements the band will need to perform. Doesn't sound like you guys are prima-donnas, so don't be afraid to put in writing what you expect. Ie. "We'll play for no pay under certain circumstances, but absolutely no pay to play of any sort. Club or client provides x amount of water for the musicians at no charge. Any other available food or drink is negotiable with the club/client." I think you get my point. If your bandmates are in agreement of terms of service, then no one will book a gig under any other terms and expect you to show up and perform. Be absolutely certain that anyone who may book for you is crystal clear on this point. To be sure, always provide a contract to the client/club and demand they return it, signed and dated, by 1 week prior to the gig. I've heard all kinds of excuses such as, "The club owners won't sign contracts." Etc. Bullshit. If they are business owners, they will be happy to work with you, provided you are reasonable in your requests. Otherwise, it ain't worth your time. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 fantasticsound- Totally agree. What happened here I think, is there was no written agreement because it was a private party. If I`m following what happened correctly (there`s nothing like being on a `need to know basis` as a band member, eh?), our guy came to them and said, `we`d like to have a party here for about 100 guests`...and things went from there. But it was open, the only list was for people who paid the advance price. So anyone could have come in and checked out the show. I guess the club would have to say no after a certain number of people-it looked pretty full but I don`t know how many were actually there. So far, this is strictly an event group-we`ve gotten together for Christmas shows only. Two of the rhythm section have a separate band. It has expanded quite a bit too-we had nine members this year. Anyway, I [i]am[/i] happy that it went so well-one of those nights when the air is kinda charged, ya know? but the b.s. came close to derailing the mood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 BTW, Kendrix, yes the club is in Shibuya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by skip: [b]BTW, Kendrix, yes the club is in Shibuya.[/b][/quote]Oh, and lest I forget- A friend of mine had offered to help us print some flyers, but I was assured that the club was going to provide them-didn`t happen. Not what I`d expect from such a hip place. So aside from the video footage that people took (thank goodness), there`s no record of us having been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshananigan Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by skip: [b] [quote]Originally posted by The patrick of Christmas future: [b]Skip, there's no way you can call him Han. My girlfriend is named Han. Of course, she's from Vietnam, so it may be of some difference. But anywho, Hanshahshsfsnasdfsd, refuse him calling you Han!!! I compel you. Actually, it's all good. Just makes me sad seeing her name, as she's not yet back from boot camp.[/b][/quote]well I gotta do something here, buddy-the guy makes my fingers tired![/b][/quote]We can please all, on SSS- you can call me Han, Han-, Hanslghjgkkiu, or The hanshananigan of Christmas future- whatever! Just please dont call me "Han-chan!" ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Hanshananigan: [b] [quote]Originally posted by skip: [b] [quote]Originally posted by The patrick of Christmas future: [b]Skip, there's no way you can call him Han. My girlfriend is named Han. Of course, she's from Vietnam, so it may be of some difference. But anywho, Hanshahshsfsnasdfsd, refuse him calling you Han!!! I compel you. Actually, it's all good. Just makes me sad seeing her name, as she's not yet back from boot camp.[/b][/quote]well I gotta do something here, buddy-the guy makes my fingers tired![/b][/quote]We can please all, on SSS- you can call me Han, Han-, Hanslghjgkkiu, or The hanshananigan of Christmas future- whatever! Just please dont call me "Han-chan!" ;) [/b][/quote]LOL! so that would be `Han-san`? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_dup3 Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Skip, I thought Qoo was a big-time beverage there... White fang (& others) don't fool youself...the entertainment (other than women) is [b]not[/b] the main draw in a club...it can be replaced by any generic equivalent...well, except for the booze & the women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by skip: [b] In any case, it has since been explained to me that what we paid for was a private party-there was some profit from ticket sales but the money collected was for buffet service and equipment rental. The club made money from drinks but not directly from us.[/b][/quote]This is the part I'd take issue with. If you are providing entertainment for a for-profit event for which admission is being charged, you are helping them make money. That's the bottom line. Absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be paying you. To ask you to pay them is absolutely outrageous and should not be tolerated. In fact, I would demand my money back. Until musicians all stand up to this type of nonsense they will continue to be taken advantage of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted December 20, 2002 Author Share Posted December 20, 2002 d- Oh, [i]that[/i] stuff. I guess it`s well known here but I`ve never tried it-not a big soft drink guy myself. Now sake, that`s another story... Sal- Exactly. There are some clubs here in which the money bands have to pay is totally absurd. As I mentioned before, most of what was collected was for the buffet service provided by the club-but the fact that entertainment was provided, and people could attend without an invitation, meant that the club definitely profited from it. If you could spend good vibes, the band would be pricing BMWs about now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nursers Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 bump The Keyboard Chronicles Podcast Check out your fellow forumites in an Apple Music playlist Check out your fellow forumites in a Spotify playlist My Music: Stainless Fields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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