Wakeman goes vintage

[Prague]

I saw Wakeman with Yes the other night and was greatly surprised.

 

I haven't cared for a lot of his choices in sounds he uses. There's always a lot of goofy, Rompler-y, Korg-y sounds where they don't belong.

 

Well, he seems to have gone back and listened to the recordings over the years and redid his whole setup.

 

Thick, fat Moogs (usually well done) and nasty, dusty, smokin' Hammonds. It was Mellotron madness, too. Full choirs, lush strings, and even those great semi-lo-fi flutes. Plus, a REAL acoustic baby grand. Wood, felt, and strings.

 

He also played like a section of an orchestra, as did the other band members. He was there when he was supposed to be and not when he's not. Right on cue he tore it up.

 

Nice to have him back the way I liked him. I couldn't see the gear, but I don't care. It was used as it should be.

[The Magician]

Saw him 2 times in 2002 and he had started back that direction. He was using 2 silver minimoogs (voyagers perhaps?) a Triton, Z1 and a Promega 3 IIRC. He was using the Triton for most of the strings and the "Awaken" Pipe organ. Piano was on the promega. Sounded real nice.

 

Anyway One thing I alwats liked about Yes was the Choral/Orchestral approach they take towards the music. Alot of bands always seem to try to out play or out loud the other members, Yes seems to avoid this at all cost.

 

Taking my wife to see them the 28th, can't wait. first time i've seen them inside.....

 

Andy

 

The Magician

[billyb]

This is GREAT to hear. Gonna see them in Philly on May 10th. I'm going to be in Atlanta on the 28th so now you've given me a reason to try and score a ticket while I'm there.

[Steve LeBlanc]

That's great because to me 90% of what was great about him was the sounds he used. I refused to pay for a ticket the last few times he played here after seeing his rig.

[Wiggum]

That's great to hear....

 

You read my mind in a sense, as I have been pondering a thread about Rick's sound choices.

 

I have been to all of the shows since the Union tour, and while they are my favorite band and I have greatly enjoyed the shows, I have been very disappointed with Rick's sound pallette. More than anything, I really want to see him use a Hammond (or a properly set-up virtual organ).

 

A few specific examples:

 

If you listen to Siberian Khatru from Keys to Ascension, the organ patch is absolutely terrible. It sounds like a cheap Casio....way too polished and glassy. The studio cut uses a nice meaty Hammond, and it makes the verses of the track growl.

 

Another example is Starship Trooper (from Keys to Ascension II). The organ just doesn't sit right (compared to the original). Rick plays the chords a little bit different than Tony (by his own admission), but the sound (IMO) is still the biggest contributing factor to the difference.

 

And Close to the Edge suffers the same problems. He played a real Hammond for the intro during the ABWH tour (watch An Evening of Yes Music Plus), but for more recent tours he has used that glassy synth patch. In fact Close to the Edge was the only track that he played the Hammond. A D-50 was used for Heart of the Sunrise, Roundabout, etc.

 

And to this day, the best version of Roundabout is still the late-70's live version from Classic Yes. Rick and Steve were in rare form that night. The unison lines are dead nuts (during the organ solo), and when Rick hits the Leslie, it just screams.

 

And in today's market, these problems are easy to correct. Tom Brislin did a hell of job covering Rick's parts during the symphonic tour, and his organ patches were much better. There was none of the high-end sparkle that screams "synth".

 

To his credit, Rick does still use great lead sounds. His Moogs are back, and even without them, he chose good sounds (e.g. ABWH).

 

And I was very pleased that he used a real piano for Return to the Center of the Earth. I went through a CD-buying binge of his material, but I stopped when I bought The Classical Connection. It sounded like a Korg M1 or T1 played solo, and it was gut wrenching. Hearing him play a real piano on Return was awesome.

 

I almost feel blasphemous criticizing his sound pallette (he was a huge influence on me). But it is only because I want to see the real thing. I can live with digital pianos, and I can live with a good virtual organ. But something needs to change with the current set-up.

 

I won't be going to the show this year, but I wish I was (given the news of the vintage gear).

 

All the best,

 

Wiggum

[ksoper]

See?

 

You have to be careful who you get your artist endorsements from. Rick's been getting all that free shit from Korg all these years...

 

 

k.

[Prague]

I almost have to wonder if Wakeman, or "his people" have been reading postings on Forums. It was a complete turnaround.

 

2 good examples were "Your Move" and "Ritual" (Topographic Oceans). It sounded like the songs just came out and they were touring them for the first time. I agree that his sounds ruined "Siberian Khatru" most of all. Why would one use a '90s sound on a '70s tune? It's like using a saxophone for Gregorian chant.

 

By contrast, the guitarist (the brilliant Steve Howe) uses the EXACT SAME GUITARS that were used to record the original tunes. Rarely is there an exception.

 

So, Wakeman reads "Steve Howe is a tone Monster" and then he reads "Wakey's keys suck".

 

The tour just started, by the way. Go to:

http://www.yesworld.com/

and click on TOUR.

[coyote]

I don't remember him ever leaving the Moogs behind. All the other keys were Korgs, but every time I've seen him with Yes he had at least two Minimoogs.

 

IMO he did good things with those Korgs. While the sound did indeed suffer, his musical sense made the sounds work ok. That being said, I'm seeing him this time around and I cannot wait to hear him play real Hammond again!!!!

[Raymar]

I saw the more interesting keyboardist Joe Zawinul last night in Hollywood using, from what I could see, a Korg M1, a Nord Lead ?, and Korg Prophecy and various rack mounted goodies. Lots of interesting sounds along with a killer rhythm section. However on Ellington's "Come Sunday", very appropriate, he used this M1 piano patch that sorta farted on the tune. There's really no excuse for not using great piano samples that are available, or in Wakeman's case piano and organ samples.

 

Steve

[The Magician]

maybe i'm smoking crack, but I kinda like the M1 piano sound.....

 

Its up there on my list of favorite "non-piano sounding piano sounds"

 

Along with the CP70, Wurly and Synclavier. In the rightr setign good sounds, but no substitute for a nice grand.

 

Andy

 

The Magician

[Prague]

Right, Magician. It's all a matter of the "right" sound. I wouldn't use a B-3 for Inagaddadavida.

 

In this case, it was nice to see Wakeman using the right sounds for the music. He didn't have bad sounds before, just the wrong ones. It seemed like orchestration was an afterthought.

[Dan South]

I'm guessing that Rick and Josef can use whatever gear they'd like, because any manufacturer will DONATE the stuff if they agree to use it on stage. Maybe they LIKED the sounds that you guys didn't care for. Maybe it was the sound guy or the recording engineer who botched the tone.

[steadyb]

Saw him tonight with Yes in Las Vegas.

 

2 MiniMoogs (possibly Voyagers)

A Roland, a Korg, a SEM, and I couldn't see the other.

 

A rather odd set, opened with a great version of "Going For The One", did about a 55 minute first set with a lot of tunes I wasn't too familiar with, took a 15 minute intermission, then played for almost 2 hours more (including encore).

 

The second set started with scaled back semi-acoustic versions of Long Distance Runaround, and Roundabout (in an almost boogie-woogie piano style) and then more lesser known songs.

 

They did And You And I, Yours Is No Disgrace, Your Move.

 

They did not do Perpetual Change, Close to the Edge, Heart of the Sunrise, Siberian Khatru, Starship Trooper, and several other "Yessongs" era selections I was expecting.

 

No real Hammond or Mellotron, just Korg and Roland romplers.

 

Having said all that, I still did enjoy the show and when Rick go going in the Mini, it was great.

[Squids]

I wonder how much the set changes from show to show. I'd love to hear Awaken and Close to the Edge. Shame about Roundabout. Sounds like it is the same version as the acoustic version on their compilation disc. It's really odd. However, they do an acoustic version of South Side of the Sky. I wonder if they'll play that song live! That would be cool.

 

I can't believe they didn't play all of those Yessongs era tunes though. No Heart of the Sunrise? Wow.

 

I bet those Voyagers sound great! He uses SampleTank too although I don't think live. Maybe. I'll find out when they're here. I might even have Sonik Synth 2 finished by the time they are here and it has most of the authentic sounds YES used in the 70's. Minimoog leads, all of the Mellotron sounds he used (including that Topograpic mixed string sound which was cool with the violas), Polymoog, RMI, B3 etc.

 

Actually, over the years I've sampled Patrick Moraz's keyboards, Keith Emerson's and I used to own Mike Pinder's Chamberlin M4. There were even some custom Mellotron sounds used on Relayer around but I don't think anyone has permission to release those.

 

Anyway, we have an exclusive version of it with KEYBOARD magazine next month that is a light version of the real thing. But, it DOES have some cool Moog and Arp waves for some classic synth riffing. Check out the article in the May issue. It even has some classic riffs in there that Ernie Rideout did. Close to the Edge didn't make it in there but it would be interesting... especially the intro!

 

Can't wait to see YES at the end of May. It will be fun. It's rare to hear songs that are over 5 minutes these days.

[Prague]

I look forward to trying out your sounds, Squids. I thought Moraz also used the Orchestrons and Vocaltrons with Yes?

 

"South Side" is done like the original version. A lot of the other tunes have just been played so much they chose other things this tour. Ritual form Topographic is included, though.

[The Magician]

Originally posted by Prague:

I look forward to trying out your sounds, Squids. I thought Moraz also used the Orchestrons and Vocaltrons with Yes?

 

"South Side" is done like the original version. A lot of the other tunes have just been played so much they chose other things this tour. Ritual form Topographic is included, though.

Moraz used the Orchestron for that interesting horn part on "To Be Over".

 

My real question about Moraz / Relayes is about the 9min-13min segment of Gates.... it sounds as if it was recorded live in concert, yet no mention of it in the liner notes. so what is up there?

[Squids]

The Vako Orchestron! What a wonderful monster that was. Here look at these pictures from the KEYBOARD magazine Sonik Synth 2 thing we have on line now: http://www.ikmultimedia.com/Main.html?keyboardss2

 

There's also a few demos that have a Wakeman, Emerson, Banks vibe to them.

 

I've sampled the Orchestron but actually not to much of THAT ended up on Sonik Synth but it is on a product called the "Tron Capsule" which has that plus Chamberlin, Mellotron and Optigan sounds on it for all of the popular software samplers (and works as a plug-in with it's supplied ST2 LE which is great for vintage sounds).

[carbenson]

OUTSTANDING!

you got it right! Tonight in Greensboro NC, Wakeman was incredibly tasteful in the choices of voices. He got into lick trading with Howe at on point with the minimoog, and it's obvious that axe is "Owned" by him. He had a sound a lot like he did on Journey to the center of the earth. Just an awesome musician. The Whole band just did an excellent Job. played 2 sets for a total of about 2 & 3/4 hours. with a fifteen minute break.

Great, Great concert!

[Prague]

Great, carbenson. Didn't he sound good? It was night and day compared to recent tours. Like I said, it seems like he went back and listened to all the original recordings and went through his rig and voiced it up. The Voyagers were right there, too.

 

I was very impressed with And You And I and Ritual.

[stratusloop]

It's always funny when I see a post or hear a conversation about YES. Inevitably, comments will arise related to their past history as to why they don't do this or do that. It's as if people get caught in a "time warp". They only know what they produced 25 years ago and haven't a clue what they've done recently. I've attended almost every tour since '76 and continually run into these types at all YES shows. They sometimes scream in the midst of the show to play Astral Traveller or some other obscure compostion. And still others will complain after the show that they didn't do Starship Trooper or Close to the Edge. I sometimes say to these guys, well have you heard of Mind Drive or That, That Is? They usually give you a blank stare and shrug their shoulders. Obviously, as far as they're concerned, the last album they put out was Relayer. The point is, do you really know their material? And are you a "true fan"? It's not fair to judge a band on what you did 29 years ago or whatever the number is.

 

YES is a group that has an extensive archive and on top of that, as you well know, most of these "core" pieces that are usually referenced are epic numbers. Generally speaking they have 2 1/2 hours to fill. The seemingly impossible task, is how.

 

So, I would recommend that people just attend a YES show and just be happy with the setlist of that tour. To ask why this or that and on and on is purely a waste of energy.

 

So....for those of you that might think about attending this tour...this is the setlist....and now you won't be disappointed when they didn't do Perpetual Change.....because it's not on the list....

 

Going For The One

Sweet Dreams

I've Seen All Good People

Mind Drive (first half)

South Side Of The Sky

Turn Of The Century

Footprints (Intro Only)

Mind Drive (second half)

Yours Is No Disgrace

 

***15-minute intermission***

 

The Meeting (acoustic)

Long Distance Runaround (acoustic)

Wonderous Stories (acoustic)

Time Is Time (acoustic)

Show Me (acoustic)

Steve Howe Guitar Solo

Rhythm Of Love

And You And I

Ritual

Every Little Thing (encore)

Soon (encore)

 

BTW....the stage for this tour is designed by the one and only Roger Dean.

[Prague]

All correct, Stratusloop. I've seen them live since the Tales tour.

 

I just prefer any bands live material to be simply a live version of the studio track I liked in the first place. The vintage stuff should sound like the vintage stuff.

 

Mind Drive did sound like it's c.1996 heritage, as did Ritual of its 1974 heritage. Very well done. Wakey had a lot to do with it, and as always, Steve Howe.

 

There will always be wimpering in audiences for their favorite. It can be annoying. Heart/Sunrise has been played EVERY tour since 1975. Time to give it a rest. If one missed it, well one had plenty of chances. This is a great sounding tour and I'm glad I saw it.

[stratusloop]

"I just prefer any bands live material to be simply a live version of the studio track I liked in the first place. The vintage stuff should sound like the vintage stuff."

 

Prague.....this comment of yours is quite ironic...I recently asked Rick about studio verses live versions and specifically "solos". When they are in studio and record a solo the audience (fans) quickly accustoms this to be a feature and expect that the solo be played to the note live. And this same logic can be applied to your comment about whether the live presentation should be exact to the original recording. Throughout the years they given you a close representation of this but in recent years they are now applying a slightly different style or touch. I'll quote what someone said and won't identify who...but...they said...."if you want to hear the album version then sit at home and listen to it and don't expect to hear it played that way live". And I believe in this philosphy. Too many people get caught up in the technological aspect of a show and miss the big picture....anyway i'm glad you love the band....see ya at the show mate....

[Steve in KS]

Im very glad to hear that RW has changed some of his voicings since the Keys to Ascension tour. When I bought and listened to those discs, I thought he had lost his mind. Im not stuck in the past and Im more than willing to move forward with bands as they progress, but the voicings he was using didnt make any sense to me. More than any other recording at that time, Close to the Edge inspired me to get into electronic keyboards. The Mini solos and the massive organ sound brought an incredible amount of energy, variety and excitement to Rock that Id never heard before. Wakemans playing combined the power and dexterity of Emerson along with some of Banks' gorgeous chord structures. So when it came time for that organ solo on the Keys version of Close I was dumbfounded by the awful muddy organ immediately followed by a strange and unimpressive synth bridge to the next section. I put that CD away for a long time.

 

I was in Las Vegas last week for NAB and now I wish I could have stayed and heard them. I hope they release a version of this tour. Something tells me they will.

[coyote]

It bugs the heck out of me to hear bands play a record note-for-note. That "stay home and listen to the record" comment could easily have been mine lol

 

As for the keys on "Keys to Ascension", while I think it would have sounded better on a Hammond he did OK with the Korgs. And the revised organ/synth lines on CTTE from that era are the ones I use when my band attempts this song.

[Prague]

Yea, EXACT is impossible.

 

Version: a form or variant of a type or original.

 

A live version is what I like. Guitarists are usually well aware that a "Gibson" song shouldn't be played on a Tele. Yes's guitarist uses the same friggin guitar as the original (that's why he chose it in the first place).

 

Keyboards are blessed/cursed by such variety. Still, when a timbre is so integral to a certain song/part, it loses it's original flavor when it strays too far. Subjective, yes. But, this time they pleased me very much (subjective again!).

[Tusker]

I'd like to make a distinction snd see if you would agree.

 

Clearly it would be boring to hear a perfectly robotic recreation of what is on the record. By the same token, if every song is re-arranged beyond recognition, it would be a trifle um ... challenging for the audience.

 

It's a question of taste and balance.

 

I don't think everyone who like the vintage instruments does so simply because that is what was on the record. At least I don't. A number of the vintage instruments have a force, a complexity, a musical richness. When that is lacking people can sense it.

 

I applaud Rick for pulling off minimoog lines on a 4 operator FM synth on the ABWH tour. That took some cajones. Now that he has some tourable minimoogs, it is nice to hear the additional complexity of the mini sound, esepctially with the minute tweaking he does from moment to moment.

 

Similarly the issue is not (to me) that the organ on Keys was different than the one on CTTE. It was weak-sounding and bathing it reverb didn't help it. I like the XV88 / Triton / Promega pipe organ combinations much better as heard on more recent tours. (I'm talking about Awaken.)

 

In any case I love Rick, but I certainly prefer the pompous sounds.

 

Best,

 

Jerry

[sign]

I wonder, does Rick visit the Keyboard Corner?

[Steve in KS]

Originally posted by Jerry Aiyathurai:

I'd like to make a distinction snd see if you would agree.

 

Clearly it would be boring to hear a perfectly robotic recreation of what is on the record. By the same token, if every song is re-arranged beyond recognition, it would be a trifle um ... challenging for the audience.

 

It's a question of taste and balance.

 

I don't think everyone who like the vintage instruments does so simply because that is what was on the record. At least I don't. A number of the vintage instruments have a force, a complexity, a musical richness. When that is lacking people can sense it.

 

I applaud Rick for pulling off minimoog lines on a 4 operator FM synth on the ABWH tour. That took some cajones. Now that he has some tourable minimoogs, it is nice to hear the additional complexity of the mini sound, esepctially with the minute tweaking he does from moment to moment.

 

Similarly the issue is not (to me) that the organ on Keys was different than the one on CTTE. It was weak-sounding and bathing it reverb didn't help it. I like the XV88 / Triton / Promega pipe organ combinations much better as heard on more recent tours. (I'm talking about Awaken.)

 

In any case I love Rick, but I certainly prefer the pompous sounds.

 

Best,

 

Jerry

Very well put!

I certainly didn't mean to imply that I expect (or want) a note for note or identical sound to the studio version of ANY songs. But if it's supposed to be powerful, don't play it on an accordion! (Apologies to all of you accordion players out there. )