DP woes

[Dave Bryce]

So, I'm working on this tune last night. My setup is a G5 running the latest version of Panther, using the latest version of DP (4.12).

 

A drummer friend of mine comes over to lay down some tracks using my DM Pro Kit. While I have done a bunch of drum stuff recently, it's the first time I've tried tracking using the DM Pro Kit since switching to the G5/Panther - usually, I just trigger the DM Pro from a keyboard. When I had the G4 running OS9, I tracked drums using the DM Pro kit with no problem at all.

 

Anyway, he sits down to play the track. He plays it all the way through - sounds great. We sit down to listen to it, and we notice that the volume from the DM Pro keeps jumping all over the place. I look at the event data, but all the values are right where they should be, and there are no CC#7 messages; however, there are a boatload of cc#17 messages. Believing that these messages are a result of using the hi-hat pedal, I check to see if this is the case, which, in fact, it is - that's the way the DM Pro works.

 

My friend tells me that the display of the DM Pro is doing weird things. Suspecting that maybe the DM Pro brain may have some problems, I check this theory by routing the data to a different module. Same problem - same symptoms.

 

We continue trying to work around it; however, now more weird stuff starts happening. Other synths start to lock up. The effects parameters on my MOTIF start to randomly change.

 

I turn the drum track off - the problems stop.

 

I'm now fully confused, so I decide to check and see if it's DP. I switch over to Logic - we record and play back a drum track with no problem at all (no comments please, steadyb - if I was more comfortable with Logic, I'd probably be using it).

 

Anyway, I go back to DP to try and remove cc#17 from the track, but I can't seem to find an option that will let me totally remove all the cc#17 info; moreover, if I do find a way to remove cc#17, that's going to mess with the way the hi-hats respond, so I'm not sure this is a viable option for anything other than proving that it is cc#17 that's the culprit.

 

Questions:

 

1) Has anyone using DP/Panther or OSX had a similar experience?

 

2) Does anyone know how to completely remove a single cc# from a track? I tried the "Thin Continuous Data" option, but it didn't do what I wanted - it just removed some of the data.

 

3) Anyone have any other suggestions (other than calling MOTU/joining Unicornation)?

 

Thanks in advance...

 

dB

[Salyphus]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

1) Has anyone using DP/Panther or OSX had a similar experience?

I am using that combo and haven't had this problem.

I'm using a USB MIDI express XT along with a Roland V-Custom kit and a bunch of other stuff.

 

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

2) Does anyone know how to completely remove a single cc# from a track? I tried the "Thin Continuous Data" option, but it didn't do what I wanted - it just removed some of the data.

Use the Search dialog from the Edit menu. It's pretty easy to use and very effective.

When the events are all selected just delete them.

 

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

3) Anyone have any other suggestions (other than calling MOTU/joining Unicornation)?

 

Thanks in advance...

 

dB

You could also filter this data out using Input Filter under the Setup menu. Still, if you need that controller that may not be the best option. Might be a worthwhile experiment though.

 

I would experiment a bit more, maybe create a new file or open an old one that worked.

Joining Unicornation couldn't hurt:)

[Dave Bryce]

Thanks for your suggestions, Sal - I'll give the Search function a try.

 

I've emailed MOTU tech support - hopefully they'll be able to help me...

 

Y'know what else? In the OS9 version, I got really used to editing data by click-dragging the mouse. I have found that with the new version, doing so causes the value to jump to some ungodly number. I'm especially bugged by this when I try to do it with the counter in the Tracks window to back up a few measures. Do you have this problem?

 

dB

[Geosync]

Bro Dave,

 

I have been beatting up DP4.1.2 pretty hard lately . DP MIDI DEFINATELY behaves differently under OSX that OS 9.2.2.

 

What MIDI interface are you using? I know you have more than one but I forget what they are.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Geosync:

What MIDI interface are you using? I know you have more than one but I forget what they are.

I have two MTPs - one MTP AV, and one MTP II. One is set to 1-8, the other to 9-16. They're connected by a serial cable...

 

...which brings me to another complaint:

 

Audio MIDI setup regularly loses sight of the second MTP.

 

Under the old FreeMidi system, this would happen occasionally, but when I would scan the devices, it would find it again along with all of my traces/connections to all of the synths connected to the second MTP .

 

With the new OS X Audio MIDI setup app, when I rescan the devices it finds the second MTP, but then I have to manually redraw all of the traces/connections, since the folks who wrote the app didn't see the need to allow me to save a setup.

 

I hate this...

 

dB

[Geoff Grace]

Dave, I'm sorry to read about your struggle. I wish that I could help, but I have yet to upgrade to an OS X version of Digital Performer.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if your serial MIDI interface(s) are contributing to the problem or causing it entirely. (It's unclear whether your MIDI Time Piece AV is the old fashioned serial type or USB.) I replaced my serial MIDI Time Piece & MTP II when I upgraded to OS X because I had been led to believe that they wouldn't work at all. I also had to replace my serial printer as well, after trying unsuccessfully to get it to work under OS X.

 

It's frustrating to have to toss perfectly good devices over an OS change; but I'm almost certain that optimal performance (such as MIDI Time Stamping) requires a USB MIDI interface, even under OS 9. Maybe it's time to treat yourself to a better box.

 

Good luck.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Geoff Grace:

I wouldn't be surprised if your serial MIDI interface(s) are contributing to the problem or causing it entirely. (It's unclear whether your MIDI Time Piece AV is the old fashioned serial type or USB.)

Hmmmm....

 

The MTP AV is, of course, a USB device;, but, as previously mentioned, the MTP II is connected to the MTP AV via serial cable. The DM Pro Kit is, in fact, interfaced to my system via the MTP II.

 

I replaced my serial MIDI Time Piece & MTP II when I upgraded to OS X because I had been led to believe that they wouldn't work at all.

Interesting...this is the first I had heard this.

 

It's frustrating to have to toss perfectly good devices over an OS change; but I'm almost certain that optimal performance (such as MIDI Time Stamping) requires a USB MIDI interface, even under OS 9. Maybe it's time to treat yourself to a better box.

That may be a good idea, and is certainly worth trying.

 

Thanks, Geoff!!!

 

dB

[steadyb]

For what it's worth, MOTU's current line of MIDI interfaces have the best core MIDI implementation of all the MIDI interfaces out there. No matter what program you're using them with.

 

MOTU's core MIDI drivers are great.

 

A couple MIDI Express XTs (or MIDI Express 128s) would give you all the MIDI I/O you need at a lower price than getting new MTP AVs. No ADAT sync, but are you really still doing a lot of ADAT recording anyway? I doubt it.

[henryrobinett]

I suppose it's too obvious to ask whether your motu usb drivers are all updated?

 

I use MTP AV usb and MTP (original) connected serially, like you, 1-8 and 9-16. I won't say I don't have problems.. I don't use it often enough. Sometimes some instruments do appear greyed out. But this doesn't happen too ofetn and frankly I haven't determined whether it's just a case of a cable needing more tightening, as twice that was the cause. But otherwise seems fairly stable.

 

I'm using Dual 450 G4, Jaguar 10.2.8, 1.31 ram, DP 4.12 and 15" 1 gz G4 AlBook Panther, 768 ram.

[steadyb]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

So, I'm working on this tune last night. My setup is a G5 running the latest version of Panther, using the latest version of DP (4.12).

 

A drummer friend of mine comes over to lay down some tracks using my DM Pro Kit.

You didn't, by chance, have the Panther "bad drumming" filter on? That could be the problem right there.

 

Check your OSX global preferences.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by henryrobinett:

I suppose it's too obvious to ask whether your motu usb drivers are all updated?

I believe so, yes.

 

I use MTP AV usb and MTP (original) connected serially, like you, 1-8 and 9-16. I won't say I don't have problems.. I don't use it often enough. Sometimes some instruments do appear greyed out.

Greyed out? In Audio MIDI setup?

 

That used to happen in FreeMIDI, and they'd be restored along with 9-16 when I scanned for interfaces. In Audio MIDI setup, however, once the 9-16 part of the interface vanishes the traces do too, and scanning for the interface only makes the 9-16 part of the interface icon reappear. The traces are still totally gone (no trace of them, if you will ). I have to reconnect all of the synth icons manually.

 

The up side is I've gotten pretty good at quickly doing the re-connection, and have memorized to which port all my synths are connected...

 

Originally posted by steadyb:

A couple MIDI Express XTs (or MIDI Express 128s) would give you all the MIDI I/O you need at a lower price than getting new MTP AVs. No ADAT sync, but are you really still doing a lot of ADAT recording anyway? I doubt it.

Some occasionally, but not much. Usually it's just transfers from old tapes, or working with someone else who uses ADATs. That shouldn't last much longer...

 

I don't think I'd replace the AV, just the MTP II, and I am aready considering one of the Express units. I'll talk to Jim Cooper at MOTU next week, and see what he sez.

 

Thanks, guys!

 

dB