n Flux Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 i still use my 13 year old K2000VP on a daily basis. i've probably only had 5 or 6 time when the keyboard actually froze up. Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Practically every Kurzweil 88 note keyboard I've ever played has been screwed up in some way. I'm talking about touring and using rental keyboards. Usually, there's a key (or several) that have gone bad and are sending full velocity at all times. I've seen power supplies fry, and I've seen them go screwy because of some disk thing and have to be sent back. I think they just don't like a lot of pounding and abuse from typical touring. It is suspicious that all five keyboards have the same problem though. Not out of the realm of possibility though, because I've gotten keyboard after keyboard with basically the same problem. But it's unlikely they all have exactly the same issue. How would samples or patches get corrupted in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 All digital synths are computers. All computer programs and data segments require a 'frame', something that tells the operating system "Here's where the data starts, and here's where it ends". The ways that may get corrupted are numerous, but essentially boil down to: a) either the starting byte or ending byte gets truncated or lost, and the computer spins off into neverland since it has no clear instruction on what to do next or b) a part of the code references a nonexistent byte somewhere (could be within itself, or in the operating system, etc.). Once again, the computer has no clear instruction and therefore spins off. If a sample or sequence is too large for the allotted space, this could happen. Generally it results in a system 'crash', but it's not always that predictable. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLN Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Hallo Bob, strange. You're not the first to tour with the K2xxx... I can understand your frustration, but on the other hand, many artists (including world famous ones) have counted on them and used them succesfully while touring. Maybe I can assist to locate and solve the problem; just send me a private mail through dlnsound.com. Ik woon in Nederland. Good Luck, Paul Dillen DLN Sound - FM sounds for Kurzweil *NEW* Forte, PC3, PC2, PC1 and K2 series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlopHappy Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Sorry I haven't said anything else sooner, but I've been sick lately. There are actually two problems with the Fatar keybed that I'm aware of. And there are different Fatar keybeds, at least in the 2500X models. I would say the 2600X still has one of those issues, and probably both. The early model K2500X keybed was replaced with an upgraded model due to these kind of problems. The last time I spoke to a Sweetwater Engineer about the upgraded keybed for the K2500X, he told me it would cost $600 (this was a couple years ago). Being an Engineer myself, I just modified it. Anyway, here are the specifics: #1. The keyweight breaks. For every key, there is a lead weight encapsilated in a plastic resin that simulates the mechanics of a piano striker. As you can imagine, due to this brilliant design, the plastic breaks, and the lead weight falls off, with a key that no longer has much resistance. You can glue it back together with epoxy, but it is frustrating. And there are other peices of the keybed that are made of this plastic, and it tends to get brittle with age, and it breaks as well. So if you get into the beast, you may have to replace more than you planned on. #2. The carbon contacts get dirty. There are two carbon contacts per key that stike circuit board pads when you hit a key. The diffence in timing between when they hit the pads is used to compute the velocity. If one of those circuit board pads, or way more likely, one of those carbon contacts get dirty, then you'll have a key that plays full on velocity when you hit it with any velocity. It really sucks during that adagio. These problems have plagued some of Kurzweil's other 88-key keyboards also. I never had this trouble with my K2vx, or know of any issues with the K2000 keybeds, which are also made by fatar. Fatar also makes the keybeds that go in some Korg and Alesis keyboards. Some swear they'll never trust a Triton Classic 61 for fear of breaking keys... All of this is rather academic I suppose? It's really not helping your problems. But it does shine a little light on the subject I hope. I always find it amusing that Jordan Rudess carries an extra K2600XS on tour with him...a sound concept ;-) He should carry a spare Triton Studio 88 if that's his only keyboard too I suppose. Well, anyway, I digress...as usual I've worn out my welcome. Good Luck. SlopHappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlopHappy Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Like I said, I'm sick and stupid as a rock...and not explaining things very well. My understanding is the later model K2500X and K2600X share the same keybeds. And, Some folks have had problems with the Triton Classic 61 keybed, and it's actually made by Yamaha. In addition, I've got a Korg Karma that, while it doesn't feature my favorite action in the world, it's keybed is made by Fatar...and I've not had any problems with it. More ramblings from, SlopHappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMeister Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Originally posted by Albert: How would samples or patches get corrupted in the first place?It can easily happen if your SCSI chain isn't terminated when you transfer files. For example, when you save samples from the sampler or a computer to an unterminated hard drive or Zip drive. On some SCSI Zip drives termination is controlled with a little slider switch. It's sometimes hard to tell if it's set to On or Off. An alternate scenario for getting corrupted data is when you have your computer and the sampler/keyboard instrument hooked up to a common hard drive and you inadvertently access the drive from the computer and sampler at the same time. I've also run into bad memory that went strange after heating up (usually after 30 minutes or so). Anything saved from the sampler had weird noises. Bad cables and connectors or poor connections can also give you corrupted data problems. I'm thinking one of these scenarios has happened with Superbobus. It can happen in an instant. You can destroy lots and lots of data in no time at all. This is why it's important to save your stuff to more than one place but make a point of _NOT_ updating/replacing previous versions until at the end of a project when you know everything is kosher, and even then you might want to keep a very early version in case you discover glitches at some point down the road. One implication for sound design is to have lots of hard drives at your disposal. ~Peter Schouten Pyramid Sound Productions Specialising in Kurzweil K2x00 http://www.pyramid-sound.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbobus Posted January 28, 2004 Author Share Posted January 28, 2004 I received some mail because of this thread. Let me make one thing clear. I appreciate all help, but I think it's just too short time to solve these problems over a distance. These files, or these boards need a major check up. The programmer is there on thursday and I'm gonna ask him all questions about the info I received here. I appreciate all of your info here. Today my board was only sounding through the left channel. We checked the cables and they are okay. One misconception is that all five boards have the same problems. Maybe I said it wrong, but that's not true. One keyboard is actually trouble free, mine is mostly screwing up during playing (sounds won't load or are WAY to loud, try it again and everything is okay) and the third one has startup troubles. Then there are two spare boardsfrom which one has the key problems. The other one has startup problems too, but then again, it could be the scsi drive. Saturday is the first try out. I'm already steering towards getting other boards because time is flying. http://www.bobwijnen.nl Hipness is not a state of mind, it's a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kad Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Given your revised problem description, I would agree that most of these problems sound like hardware issues. If you don't mind my asking, what types of sounds are you using in your production? If they are mostly standard keyboard and orchestral sounds (as opposed to dense textures and sound effects), I have to wonder if maybe the PC2X (with orchestral expansion) would be a better fit for your needs. It would give you that same fantastic Kurzweil sound quality in a machine that is very stable and hassle-free. Of course, you lose the infinite programming flexibility that VAST provides, but you gain a very thorough selection of high quality sounds that require no programming and no data loading. Just turn the machine on and you're ready to go! I realize it's a little late to suggest the PC2X for this particular production, but perhaps in the future... Good luck with your performances!! Kirk Reality is like the sun - you can block it out for a time but it ain't goin' away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 You must be crazy to spend a fortune on a K2600. IMO they are plain crap. I'm starting to appreciate my trustful Yamahas and Roland more and more.[/QB]Sorry that you've had bad luck with your Kurzweils. I think your experience is unusual though. Most Kurzweil users love the capabilities and flexibility that they offer. I've got a K2500, and love that fact that it's got an excellent sampler, a great variety of expressive sounds, decent on-board effects, fantastic programability, a long history of compatibility, a wonderful keyboard, and more flexible controls than any synth on the market. Electronic music fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc taz Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Hope you don't mind this bassist cutting in, but for me, there's only one answer as to why Kurzweils are cool with me. http://www.jordanrudessmedia.com/images/space_04_th.jpg sevenstring.org profile my flickr page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 The Triton is made by Yamaha? Hey.....that's amusing. When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbobus Posted June 19, 2004 Author Share Posted June 19, 2004 Well, the tour is over and was more or less trouble free. Opinions about the boards screwing up were more and more pointing to faulty RAM. But in all of the boards??? Well, I'm glad I'm rid of those dynosaurs, hehe. I hope you Kurz players are more lucky than I was with them. http://www.bobwijnen.nl Hipness is not a state of mind, it's a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p120dUdE Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I dont understand why Kurzweils are so popular either. I mean, alot of people love their "Award Winning Triple Strike Grand Piano", but I find that there is nothing special about it. It sounds weird, and their are little dynamics. O well, it all comes down to personal preference. Regards, p120dUdE My Gear: Yamaha P120 Professional Stage Piano, Yamaha CS1x Synthesizer, Yamaha MSP5 Monitors, Behringer Eurorack UB802 Mixer Music I Play: Classical, Jazz, Blues, Classic Rock, Rock The Yamaha P120 Pro. Stage Piano is absolutely superb, fantastic, awesome! It rocks! Chris M. West Brook Music Studio, New England USA Yamaha P120 Specialist My Synth Group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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