alby Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Hi guys, I have seen the word noodling used a few times on this forum. I gather from its use, that its not particular inspiring style of playing. Dictionary.com defines it to be To improvise music on an instrument in an idle, haphazard fashionDoes it mean your are rambling on an on on your solo with nothing worth saying? Regards Alby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Azzarello Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Basically, it's kind of playing notes at random, without any real motivation or development. Noodling is to improvisation as "blah blah blah blah" is to literature. Or (and I know I'll offend someone with this, though it won't be Pat Metheny): Jazz improvisation = Charlie Parker Noodling = Kenny G Pat http://www.patazzarello.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alby Posted October 11, 2003 Author Share Posted October 11, 2003 Hi Patzaa, How do you know if what you are playing is noodling or inspired? Is it playing prettily. Or Playing on the outside? Regards Alby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksoper Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Originally posted by alby: How do you know if what you are playing is noodling or inspired? Is it playing prettily. Or Playing on the outside? AlbyHmmm...when I used to play church services and was called on to play during communion, many times I noodled between actual hymn themes. In this case the noodling needed to be pretty and appropriate to the venue. I wouldn't have called it inspired as it was just thematic improvisation. But because of the venue I had to at least pretend it was inspired, even if I was hungover from having played in a bar the night before. k. 9 Moog things, 3 Roland things, 2 Hammond things and a computer with stuff on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahoo Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 These guys are supposidy noodlers: The Disco Biscuits www.biscoradio.com - select -tune-in- Very cool music. " trancefussion improv" best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Azzarello Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I have to agree with KSoper - There are times when "noodling" is appropriate, and is often pretty. It's usually just not very exciting or developed. Personally, I noodle all the time, but then again I'm Italian and we (supposedly) are experts with noodles. Pat http://www.patazzarello.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 inspired playing = herbie hancocknoodling = spyro gyra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petros Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I think of noodling is soloing without a developed melodic sense.And it's ridiculous to say Kenny G and Spyro Gyra have no melodic sense and noodle just because you don't like their music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 We don't say they have no melodic sense and are noodlers because we don't like them, we say it because they have no melodic sense and are noodlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petros Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I don't especialy care for Kenny G or Spyro Gyra, but I recognize that they are more than just noodlers and that they don't play in a "haphazard fashion." Their careers were built largely upon playing "catchy" melodies, not noodled melodies that are without order or direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Meandering is the word that comes to my mind to describe noodling. I also do not attach a negative feeling to that word, it is what it is. It can also come across as absentminded playing, No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alby Posted October 11, 2003 Author Share Posted October 11, 2003 So - we are saying that noodling is playing robotic patterns over the chords with no sense of melody - Yes? So when John Coltrane plays those endless runs over something like Summertime (from his album - My Favorite Things), is he noodling? (As compared to Stan Getz's more melodic solo on Summertime - from his album Nobody else but me.) It seems obvious that when John Coltrane noodles - it is pretty inspiring soloing in a linear style. The problem is when the non Jon Coltrane's out there try to mimic his solo's with long winded sax lines that are simply boring. alby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssian Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I've always seen "noodling" as just playing with no specific intent to what you are playing. For instance, if you are programming a new patch in a synth, you might play anything on the keys just to hear how the sound is changing as you program it. Or, a person might "noodle" to check mixer levels, or maybe while he is hearing a new synth at a music store. It's just generic, non-specific playing, imo. Noodling might be melodic, or not. Could be rhythmic, or not. It could be anything, really. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 To me "noodling" is playing without really playing a song. In simple form it is done when trying out a new keyboard or testing patches. It can also be when you are feeling a bit contemplative and just want to play to express your mood. This type of noodling can lead to composition. Think of noodling as the music form of doodling. Robert This post edited for speling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pierce Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Originally posted by Rabid: To me "noodling" is playing without really playing a song. In simple form it is done when trying out a new keyboard or testing patches. It can also be when you are feeling a bit contemplative and just want to play to express your mood. This type of noodling can lead to composition. Think of noodling as the music form of doodling. RobertYeah, this is exactly the sense in which I tend to use the phrase "noodling". As in, playing some melody or chord pattern that randomly came to mind while warming up for rehearsal. Bandmate says: "That sounds nice, what is that?" Me: "Oh nothing, just noodling." Sometimes it eventually becomes the basis for an actual song. Or not. The key, though, is that if I'm actually thinking about it or intentionally trying to take it in a specific direction, it's no longer noodling. --Dave Make my funk the P-funk. I wants to get funked up. My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burlingame2 Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 I agree with most of the answers, just to add that noodling can change to outright inspired soloing if you happenned to get the energy right.That is to say, if you are applying yourself but at the same time just kind of hoping the playing works out since the piano part or whatever part is defined as a risk from the beginning. The risk of sounding worked on at length , rather than just good assuming it is either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Dead right, I think I noodle in this regard a lot and then hit on something that I wouldn't have normally... I think Keith Jarrets Koln is a buit like that.. a bit of searching and then total inspiration.. Saying that.. I think a lot of prog rock and fusion was a lot of noodling... I was listening to Chick Coreas "Space Circus" which I have on video from 1974 and he was playing an Oddysey trading 4 bars with Bill Connors on gtr.. was interesting from a nostalgic point of view but pretty boring really.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 I would define noodling as what I pretty much do when I try (and fail) to improvise. Play notes that all fit the key and mood, but don't go anywhere - just play notes. When you go back and listen to what it sounds like, with no reason, no rhyme, no real chops involved, you'll hear what noodling really is. It gets annoying after extended periods of time. The sad part is that it usually feels pretty good while you're doing it - but then you're completely embarassed after the fact - like "OH my GOD! Did I play that CRAP?" A bunch of loud, obnoxious music I USED to make with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Originally posted by alby: Hi guys, I have seen the word noodling used a few times on this forum. Its playing down at the local Chinese take-away for dinner. OK, no its not. Actually, I have mainly seen this term used by guitarists for loose improvising, probably for ones own entertainment or education rather than that of an audience. For some people it seems to be something they do as part of the songwriting process too. Play around with chord sequences and see what pops out that is interesting. Guess you could describe something like improvising finger exercise, for example, as noodling. So I guess lack of predefined structure is the key characteristic rather than any aesthetic question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpel Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 It's essentially a term of derogation that means undirected or aimless improvisation, but, of course, one man's noodling is another man's Japanese line drawing. Many consider Jerry Garcia to be the the arhctypal noodler while others consider him a masterful musical storyteller. Aesthetically, for me, "noodling" implies a lack of melodic or rhythmic definition and destination, a kind of "swimming in place" full of futile and ineffectual motion. Noodling: the flapping of fingers divorced from any sense of musical intent. Yeah, I can but that. But as to who/what is noodling and who/what isn't, well, that's a can of noodly worms, innit? Check out the Sweet Clementines CD at bandcamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcohol Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 noodling is 95% of the reason why most jazz recordings and live performances suck. "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality." [Dante Alighieri] (1265-1321) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erlic Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Personally, I noodle all the time, but then again I'm Italian and we (supposedly) are experts with noodles.GROAN....... Please Pat, you're giving Italians a bad name, especially this one. _____________ Erlic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alby Posted October 18, 2003 Author Share Posted October 18, 2003 Originally posted by Rabid: Think of noodling as the music form of doodling. RobertHi Robert, that's a great definition. Thanks alby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dementia13 Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 Actually, that dictionary definition is great. And it's ridiculous to say Kenny G and Spyro Gyra have no melodic sense and noodle just because you don't like their music. Absolutely. However, Kenny G's playing matches that definition. That's why I (we) say he noodles. He's disrespected by the majority of musicians because he noodles. Spyro Gyra's music may be overly pleasant sometimes, but I think it's off base to accuse them of 'noodling'. Saying that.. I think a lot of prog rock and fusion was a lot of noodling.. And this was the big criticism of it at the time: self-indulgence. The groups we remember best are the ones that least indulged. Other egegrious offenders: the Dead, every Southern Rock band with a 20 min. "Free Bird" clone (in other words, all of them), Triumph and Boston in concert, and Iron Maiden's longer cuts. Lyrically, the equivalents would be Peter Sinfield, Blue Oyster Cult, and Stone Temple Pilots: guys who write down the first thing that comes in their head, with no editorial decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 Originally posted by dementia13: However, Kenny G's playing matches that definition. That's why I (we) say he noodles. Yup, I agree. He has a couple of arpeggiated noodling habits that are all over every song. He plays on autopilot a lot. The Spyro Gyra guys play with a lot more intent. Some of the best ideas come when you are noodling. But an artist has a responsibility to organize his/her ideas. I'm not suggesting that we all should re-write like Beethoven either. Playing with passion will automatically organize your thoughts. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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