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Left hand wake up call!


shniggens

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Originally posted by Dave Horne:

 

The first 50 minutes of my practicing every day uses typically one note per hand. It doesn't matter whether it's a pattern of some kind or arpeggios or some scalar sequence (or scales), it's one note per hand. I use those 50 minutes to kill three birds with one stone. Whatever I practice during those 50 minutes I do in every key (good for the noodle), ideas for improvising and also good for pure technique. I would start by simply playing all the tunes you know using one note per hand at the same time two or three octaves apart. Just a thought ...

Could you describe this in a little more detail for the practice impaired (me). :confused:

 

I really want to understand what you are talking about, but I can't picure it. You mean use one note per hand for ANY tune, and imply some sort of harmony? You mean I would be cheating if I kept just using the root in the left hand :D ?

 

(pad) :o

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In addition to Bach's 2 part inventions & preludes and fugues, you might also try some Chopin etudes or some Beethoven or Mozart sonatas. Solo left hand practice exercises are always useful...really, any piece that has a melody or an interesting figure in the left hand would be helpful for developing left hand independence. Playing triplets in the left hand versus 16th notes in the right is always a brain twister (i.e. Chopin's fantasie-impromptu) There's certainly plenty to choose from in the classical piano literature! Good luck!

Tom F.

"It is what it is."

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Originally posted by shniggens:

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

 

The first 50 minutes of my practicing every day uses typically one note per hand. It doesn't matter whether it's a pattern of some kind or arpeggios or some scalar sequence (or scales), it's one note per hand. I use those 50 minutes to kill three birds with one stone. Whatever I practice during those 50 minutes I do in every key (good for the noodle), ideas for improvising and also good for pure technique. I would start by simply playing all the tunes you know using one note per hand at the same time two or three octaves apart. Just a thought ...

Could you describe this in a little more detail for the practice impaired (me). :confused:

 

I really want to understand what you are talking about, but I can't picure it. You mean use one note per hand for ANY tune, and imply some sort of harmony? You mean I would be cheating if I kept just using the root in the left hand :D ?

 

(pad) :o

One note each hand, ... lines, whatever, one note each hand. Take a bebop tune (or any tune, for that matter) and play the melody in each hand, just play one note each hand, no chords, just one note per hand. Practice a pattern, any pattern ... one note each hand. Scales, arpeggios, whatever ... one note each hand.

 

I just got in from a three hour solo job and my mind is a bit fried ... only one beer in the fridge too. If what I wrote still isn't clear give me a yell.

No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message.

 

In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments.

 

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Originally posted by RaGe:

Dave, what would be the benefits of such exercice for someone at your (assumed) level of playing? Please elaborate when u can.

GIve it a try and see just how much work it takes to do it well. Take a bebop tune like Joy Spring, for example, and play the melody in each hand at the same time two or three octaves apart. Keyboard players in the beginning, at least, practice scales and arpeggios one note each hand, but there's an entire style of playing that uses that as well. Oscar Petersonand Phineas Newborn are two names that come to mind who have excelled in that style of playing at times. Give it shot and see how much time it takes to make the left hand sound as fluid as the right hand. When you play both hands together in that manner, the left hand gets a free ride, so to speak. Try also playing the same melody, lick, pattern, whatever just with the left hand ... it's an eye opener.

 

I'm going ... that beer is calling me.

No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message.

 

In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments.

 

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:thu: i see where u're going with that concept.

i'll give it a try.

i noticed that playing exercises very slow does me much more good than trying to play them fast and not articulating well.

 

[i have a whole pianistic reeducation i am undertaking now, after 15 years of playing ... never did any classical and some unsupervised technique work, so i got into some very bad habits that are hard to let go now.

i am thinking of getting a classsical teacher to put me on the right track.]

 

back to the subject at hand :D

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Originally posted by RaGe:

:thu: i see where u're going with that concept.

i'll give it a try.

i noticed that playing exercises very slow does me much more good than trying to play them fast and not articulating well.

 

[i have a whole pianistic reeducation i am undertaking now, after 15 years of playing ... never did any classical and some unsupervised technique work, so i got into some very bad habits that are hard to let go now.

i am thinking of getting a classsical teacher to put me on the right track.]

 

back to the subject at hand :D

You should spend a little time playing fast (and inaccurately) Unless you are doing everything right, the tendency when playing slow is to incorporate uneccessary motions into your playing. These will prevent you playing fast. You want to make sure you don't practice these in. So its important to eliminate all such motion when playing slowly.

 

One way to do this is to try to play fast and notice the difficulties.

 

For example, a thumb turn that is easy slow may be impossible fast and you may find you cannot play a section fast with a fingering that seemed perfectly fine slow.

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IMO, the answer to the problem raised in the previous post is to do old-fashioned metronome work - start with the metronome on a slowish tempo for your accuracy practice, then gradually increase the speed, and master that tempo before increasing further. Usually these "extra motions" resolve themselves away.

Tom F.

"It is what it is."

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The simple reality is that you will need to strengthen your left hand if you want to use it in a more developed way. An experienced musician is not much different than an athlete in that both must develop the parts of their anatomy that they use.

 

Definately try Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianinst. I used to do the first 40 exercises before playing when I was on the road. It was a great warm up. As for extemporising (jamming), try doing a walking bass to your chord patterns and then begin improvising with your right hand while still playing the patterns. It will be difficult at first, but that's part of the development process.

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Originally posted by RaGe:

:thu: i see where u're going with that concept.

i'll give it a try.

i noticed that playing exercises very slow does me much more good than trying to play them fast and not articulating well.

 

[i have a whole pianistic reeducation i am undertaking now, after 15 years of playing ... never did any classical and some unsupervised technique work, so i got into some very bad habits that are hard to let go now.

i am thinking of getting a classsical teacher to put me on the right track.]

 

back to the subject at hand :D

What I should have written is this, be able to play whatever you play with your right hand also with your left hand ... and play both hands at the same time. Start with simple 'things' and go from there. Sorry that I wasn't clear with my posts.

No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message.

 

In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Originally posted by shniggens:

Originally posted by jla@hib.no:

 

no one has answered what a "stride" is yet.

Stride is that ragtime style that alternates between the root and the 5th on beats 1 and 3 in the lower registers. On beats 2 and 4 you play a closed position chord an octave higher. At least that's the basic stride I know from playing not enough ragtime.

 

I'm sure more modern jazz and blues stride is a lot more complicated, and I'd like to hear some more ideas for stride left hand.

Here's three:

 

- you can intermix the straight stride with walking bass (often in octaves or tenths), especially when approaching chord changes. At its simplest you might just put an approach note (like E or F# before F) half a beat ahead of the first bass note of a change.

 

- The bass notes can be "broken" by playing one note before the other ahead of the beat. Both higher note first and lower note first are used. When playing this style, 10ths are often used instead of octaves.

 

- You can syncopate the bass. See "Crawfish Fiesta" by Professor Longhair for an archtypal example.

 

- You can play patterns in the chord part. If I am recalling it correctly, James Booker does this in his version of St James Infirmary.

 

(OK, that's 4 - nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition)

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Originally posted by Byrdman:

[

- You can play patterns in the chord part. If I am recalling it correctly, James Booker does this in his version of St James Infirmary.

)

Please explain a little deeper, this technique, Senior Byrdman.

 

:thu:

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Just got this from a master class Geoff Keezer gave.

 

Take a rather challenging short snippet of a solo or piece (he used Bud Powell's first 8 bars on "Parisian Thoroughfare" as an example), learn it in both hands, play it hands together, left hand only, through all twelve keys. Then you can play it in two keys at once if you so choose. Definitely builds up the left hand.

 

David

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Originally posted by shniggens:

Originally posted by Byrdman:

[

- You can play patterns in the chord part. If I am recalling it correctly, James Booker does this in his version of St James Infirmary.

)

Please explain a little deeper, this technique, Senior Byrdman.

 

:thu:

Instead of playing just the chord, you can create little melodies with it (which is what Booker does in St James, keeping a sostenuto of Bb G going at the top of the left hand part for much of the piece - very funereal.

 

Or you can create little Blues Patterns. An example would be what Roosevelt Sykes plays in "44 Blues" (although he is using both hands there, I think) where he plays an arpeggiated F C A (bottom up) for the base on beat 1 and then plays CFA/C G Bb/C F A)on the other three (half? - what I hear in my head is in 2) beats.

 

Or if you want to be modern (ie not authentic to any historical stride style so far as I know - I would love to be contradicted on this one) you can play little funk patterns in there.

 

Actually this is probably related to New Orleans "Butterfly" stride style but I don't yet understand the exact characteristics of that style. Crawfish Fiesta is an example of Butterfly stride and does not do what I am just describing - the syncopation is between the bass part and the chord part not within the chord part.

 

This is a piece I am trying to learn to play at the moment, along with a bunch of other Fess tunes. Other than the issue of learning to play and sing at the same time, I find Crawfish Fiesta to be probably his most difficult piece. When I finally get it up to speed (and up to style!) I will probably find out the transcription is not what he is actually playing. Fess did not always play the same thing and in the transcription I have, even the lyrics for Junco Partner are somewhat different to what Fess actually sings in the version I have been studying from. :(

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  • 5 months later...

>For example, a thumb turn that is easy slow may >be impossible fast and you may find you cannot >play a section fast with a fingering that seemed >perfectly fine slow.

 

This is profoundly good advice, whether working on "touche" or velocity.

 

There's a whole book of Booker transcriptions out by Hal Leonard: I learned most of the tunes I was interested in by ear, but I bought the book out of curiosity. I think it's flawless, although I haven't really ear-checked the transcriptions closely against the music. Pick it up and treat it as though it *were* Bach -- really fascinating, idiosyncratic LH patterns. A great player, although really inimitable.

 

As someone else posted, a good, interesting way to simply beef up the LH is to learn to do with your left what you can do with your right. I learned a Sonny Clark solo that way, although I don't see the point unless you've lost your RH in the hamburger meat.

 

What about, for a lark, learning some of the great classical repertoire for LH, like Scriabin's Concerto for the LH -- a bunch was commissioned on Paul Wittgenstein's behalf (Ludwig's bro) after he lost his RH in the Great War. THAT's touch for you, the Scriabin -- the first bit is slow and VERY challenging to do justice to -- and no tenths or anything like that, which I sometimes can't do either.

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