Left hand wake up call!

[shniggens]

AAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGHGHHHHH . . . my left hand sucks ass!

 

Why does it just want to play octaves all the time?

 

I remember when Bruce Hornsby was in an issue of Keyboard, he said he focused on his left hand for like a year . . . but I don't recall him ever stating what exactly he was practicing to bring it up to speed.

 

What should I play to wake it up? I can improvise stuff pretty easily when I play left hand alone, but once I add the right hand . . . here comes the octaves. It's probably just used to keeping the beat and that's all. Maybe some Joplin? Maybe some Boogie Woogie?

[The T Dot]

Stick to the octaves, just add a fifth in there once in awhile to mix things up.

[David R]

- Hanon: The Virtuoso Pianist (the book of 60, not 20)

- Bach: mainly Two-Part Inventions but most of his stuff will help your left hand.

 

I'm sure Rachmoninoff's Concerto for Left Hand would help as well! As far as Hornsby goes, I think he just slowly worked on developing ostinato patterns in the left hand and blowing over them in the right. I know he recommends start just with broken octaves in 8ths and then getting progressively more complicated.

 

David

[Jdub2k1]

Left hand comes easy for me (maybe because I am left handed )

 

But if you can play your right hand chords without looking at your right hand, continue to do that and focus on the thumb of your left hand, and figure out where you want it to go (assuming that you are using your pinky and thumb). Your pinky should stay the same. What I do is use a LOT of 5ths and flat 7ths that really change up your chords and give you a lot of variety. If I have a bass player, I might use a lot of 3rds in higher octaves, too.

 

So for an exercise, in the key of C, try playing songs you already know and substitute your usual octave left hand chords for 5ths and flat 7ths.

 

In C, try:

 

C and G

C and E

C and Bb

 

[Botch.]

I remember Hornsby playing in his music video of "The Way It Is" and being struck by how little his left hand was used, heck I use more left hand! Sounds like he tried working on getting it going more.

 

I'm not a classical pianist by any means, I've found that the Prince and Cars tunes our band performs live give my left hand quite a workout, for me anyway.

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by shniggens:

AAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGHGHHHHH . . . my left hand sucks ass!

 

What should I play to wake it up? I can improvise stuff pretty easily when I play left hand alone, but once I add the right hand . . . here comes the octaves.

Boogie basses will definitely help. But also work on stride style basses. Work on walking tenths. The key is repetition (be careful not to hurt your hands on those tenths though - don't overdo it at first)

 

Get hold of a transcription of Dick Wellstoods "Jingle Bells" for some really fun left hand work.

 

Its not clear whether you are just playing the octaves in one place (bad) or walking them (good). Even some of the best boogie-woogie players just play static octaves with their left hand when playing really complicated bits with their right.

[shniggens]

Thanks for the advice guys!

 

Unfortunately, my hands are rather small. Octaves are about the limit, no tenths for me without a sprained thumb. Picture Elton John, short little sausage fingers.

[shniggens]

Originally posted by Jdub2k1:

 

But if you can play your right hand chords without looking at your right hand, continue to do that and focus on the thumb of your left hand, and figure out where you want it to go (assuming that you are using your pinky and thumb). Your pinky should stay the same. What I do is use a LOT of 5ths and flat 7ths that really change up your chords and give you a lot of variety. If I have a bass player, I might use a lot of 3rds in higher octaves, too.

 

So, basing the exploration from the thumb of the left hand, that would mean that you would be using your thumb as a base in the left hand (root) while playing the 7th or the 5th in a lower register? IE 7th or 5th would be played below the root, while the thumb would be holding down the tonic, like in the right hand?

[petros]

The style of piano music dictates a lot of what you do in your left hand.

 

Beatles played rocking octaves (Let It Be, Imagine). Elton John and Billy Joel (The Piano Man) are trained pianists and use a lot of 1 5 10 arpeggios (good for all styles)

 

In jazz I practice this thru ii V I ina all 12 keys:

The "claw" left hand that the Bud Powell used

Also: play Bill Evans "inner melodies" within left hand chords

Also: 4 note Bill Evans rootles voicings in the left hand

Also: Bill Evans type Romantic period arpeggios

Also: big Hank Jones chords in the left hand either: (Root, 3rd, 7th) or (Root, 7th, 10th)

Also: walking 10ths

Also: stride

Also: walking bass (also Root 5th "Latin" bass)

Also: play your solos in two handed octaves (Oscar Peterson)

Also: play chords in the right hand and play a bass solo with your left

[Rod S]

Originally posted by shniggens:

Unfortunately, my hands are rather small. Octaves are about the limit, no tenths for me without a sprained thumb. Picture Elton John, short little sausage fingers.

LOL! This is exactly my problem. There's no way I will ever do 10ths. I can barely do a 9th if I'm warmed up enough. I like doing the 1-5-10 arps, but I still have trouble with them.

 

The embarrassing part is the female singer that I play with can do it no problem. I was complaining the other day that I couldn't do it, she reaches over and does it with no effort.

 

I play mostly pop-rock, so I tend to do a a lot of rhytmic stuff on the piano. I try to focus much more on a good rythm and interesting synchopation between the left and right hands than really any involved left hand work.

[JimmieWannaB]

LOL! This is exactly my problem. There's no way I will ever do 10ths. I can barely do a 9th if I'm warmed up enough. I like doing the 1-5-10 arps, but I still have trouble with them.

Same here. Some keyboardists are just blessed with large hands and long fingers. A couple years ago, Keyboard Magazine ran a a Master Class (Richard Tee?) with transcriptions that were just painful to play. No matter how I tried, I couldn't spread my fingers wide enough to play most of the examples.

[Synthbro]

Try playing Bach inventions or the preludes and fugues in the well tempered clavier. This will defintely bring a new level of mobility and ideas into your physical and auditory toolbox.

 

Bill Evans practiced Bach all of his life and claimed that it made him play jazz on a whole new level in both hands.

 

Why play Bach?

Easy answer. Bach will expect you to play a melody against your right hand's melody (counterpoint) that has the same variety of articulation and the same stregnth of importance as the right hand.

 

During this process you will also experience through analysis and osmosis a definite sense of how to devlop any melody you will ever write or improvise.

 

One last pice of advice - learn them all. Don't avoid any one because it seems harder than another. Each one has a different lesson to teach!

 

Synthbro

[Krakit]

I have been a Bach fan just about my entire life.

 

Most of my early repitoir was Bach.

 

When I joined the Soft Parade (Doors tribute band), I had no problem adopting all the bass line parts on my Rhodes Piano Bass. After Bach, Manzerak is a walk through the park.

 

Bach it!

 

Carl

[shniggens]

Bach it is then!!!

 

I have all of the inventions, but only learned number 1, 8, and 13 because those were my favorites. Guess I'll have to learn them all.

 

Luckily, Bach usually fits well under my vertically challenged sausages.

[DanS]

Originally posted by shniggens:

 

 

Luckily, Bach usually fits well under my vertically challenged sausages. [/QB]

Add a few links.

[marino]

Shniggens,

allow me to paste part of a post I wrote for a thread from some time ago:

 

1) In the classical technical literature, there are quite a few exercises dedicated to strengthen the left hand. (Czerny, Cramer, etc.) Choose a couple among those that are closer to your level and needs and practice them hard.

2) Any counterpoint-based music, especially Bach, is good to develop hand independence. Plus, it doesn't hurt that Bach's music is wonderful.

3) Take any solo passage that you would normally play with you right hand, and practice it with your left. Then, play the passage with both hands together, one or two octaves apart.

4) Try to improvise melodic lines with left hand alone.

5) Practice scales and exercises with both hands simultaneously, both parallel and various kinds of contrary motion.

6) Try keeping simple riffs going with your left hand, and improvise over it with your right. Switch to more complicated riffs (i.e. longer, with pauses within them, in odd meters etc.) as you become stronger.

7) Practice "Jazz" left hand: Tenths, walking bass, stride (very difficult). Start by playing themes over it, then try to improvise solos.

8) Practice different rhythms in left and rigt hands. Start with 2 against 3, then 4 against 3 etc. Swap their roles often.

 

Hope this helps

 

Carlo

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by Synthbro:

Try playing Bach inventions or the preludes and fugues in the well tempered clavier. This will defintely bring a new level of mobility and ideas into your physical and auditory toolbox.

 

Yes, these are definitely useful. But you are practicing something different with these than if you try to play a boggie-woogie style. With the boogie-woogie, hand independence is everything. With Back (especially fugues) hand co-ordination is the most important thing - and clarity of the separate melodic lines

 

If you want to stay within the classical style, adding some Beethoven and especially Chopin will broaden your left hand work over just the Bach.

[Krakit]

With the boogie-woogie, hand independence is everything. With Back (especially fugues) hand co-ordination is the most important thing - and clarity of the separate melodic lines

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on both counts.

 

Bach is ALL about independance. Even in fuges (which are sometimes written with different time signatures in each hand). When you are playing completely independant melody lines in each hand, that is by its very definition, independant.

 

However, when you play strides or boogie baselines, you are comping the right hand. What you play below the right hand parts is made up of the chords and rythems of the right hand. This is a type of co-ordination. Your hands are working together.

 

Bach inventions couldn't be further away from that. Your hands are each off doing their own thing, while when you play ragtime or boogie woogie, your left hand is always supporting what is played by the right.

 

Carl

[Jdub2k1]

Originally posted by shniggens:

Originally posted by Jdub2k1:

 

But if you can play your right hand chords without looking at your right hand, continue to do that and focus on the thumb of your left hand, and figure out where you want it to go (assuming that you are using your pinky and thumb). Your pinky should stay the same. What I do is use a LOT of 5ths and flat 7ths that really change up your chords and give you a lot of variety. If I have a bass player, I might use a lot of 3rds in higher octaves, too.

 

So, basing the exploration from the thumb of the left hand, that would mean that you would be using your thumb as a base in the left hand (root) while playing the 7th or the 5th in a lower register? IE 7th or 5th would be played below the root, while the thumb would be holding down the tonic, like in the right hand?

Well actually I meant having your pinky finger as the base note and your thumb hitting the 3rd,5th, and 7th notes, but do whatever sounds the best for the moment

 

Oh, and Chopin had very large hands also, before he messed them up

[jlahib.no]

whats a "stride" ?

[swandiver]

And what's a "1-5-10 arp"?

[jlahib.no]

1 5 10 would be .. for example in Aminor

you play a with the pinky

c with the pointing finger

and e with the thumb

 

[petros]

Originally posted by jla@hib.no:

1 5 10 would be .. for example in Aminor

you play a with the pinky

c with the pointing finger

and e with the thumb

 

That's not correct. The "1 5 10 arpeggio" for A minor is rolled upward with pedal depressed as such:

A with pinky, then

E above A with index finger, then

C above E with thumb

 

On Dominant 7 chords you should use " 1 7 10" or else it doesn't sound like a 7th chord.

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by Krakit:

With the boogie-woogie, hand independence is everything. With Back (especially fugues) hand co-ordination is the most important thing - and clarity of the separate melodic lines

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on both counts.

 

Bach is ALL about independance. Even in fuges (which are sometimes written with different time signatures in each hand). When you are playing completely independant melody lines in each hand, that is by its very definition, independant.

 

However, when you play strides or boogie baselines, you are comping the right hand. What you play below the right hand parts is made up of the chords and rythems of the right hand. This is a type of co-ordination. Your hands are working together.

 

Bach inventions couldn't be further away from that. Your hands are each off doing their own thing, while when you play ragtime or boogie woogie, your left hand is always supporting what is played by the right.

 

Carl

All this disagreement shows is that both things are important in all forms!

 

There is certainly a difference between playing a separate melodic line in each hand and playing one melodic line with both hands. In Bach you get to do both. The middle lines move back and forth between the hands. For me, at least, that is where the technical difficulty in Bach lies. So Bach is a question of co-ordination.

 

In Boogie piano, the hands need to be rythmically free. You have separate rythmic patterns in each hand. Its not at all the same as Ragtime (or at least as Ragtime gets played today - I wonder if it has not been "tidied up" or if perhaps the aural tradition was different but has been lost)

[Botch.]

"Vertically Challenged Sausages" would be a great name for a rock band.

[Dave Horne]

Originally posted by shniggens:

AAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGHGHHHHH . . . my left hand sucks ass!

 

Why does it just want to play octaves all the time?

 

I remember when Bruce Hornsby was in an issue of Keyboard, he said he focused on his left hand for like a year . . . but I don't recall him ever stating what exactly he was practicing to bring it up to speed.

 

What should I play to wake it up? I can improvise stuff pretty easily when I play left hand alone, but once I add the right hand . . . here comes the octaves. It's probably just used to keeping the beat and that's all. Maybe some Joplin? Maybe some Boogie Woogie?

The first 50 minutes of my practicing every day uses typically one note per hand. It doesn't matter whether it's a pattern of some kind or arpeggios or some scalar sequence (or scales), it's one note per hand. I use those 50 minutes to kill three birds with one stone. Whatever I practice during those 50 minutes I do in every key (good for the noodle), ideas for improvising and also good for pure technique. I would start by simply playing all the tunes you know using one note per hand at the same time two or three octaves apart. Just a thought ...

[G3Max]

Petros or anyone who would to enlighten a keyboard hack,

 

Can you give an example of the Bud Powell "claw" left hand? How is this played?

 

What do you mean when you say Bill Evans "inner melodies" within left hand chords? Is there a way you can describe this for me?

 

What exactly is the Bill Evans type Romantic period arpeggios?

 

These left hand techniques are probably outside my capability level but I would like to know anyway. I, too, would like to improve my left hand technique. I don't plan on playing any concerts or gigs but I would like to get better anyway.

[jlahib.no]

That's not correct. The "1 5 10 arpeggio" for A minor is rolled upward with pedal depressed as such:

A with pinky, then

E above A with index finger, then

C above E with thumb

yes, duh me.. cant visualize a keyboard on an empty stomach. my wrong.

 

no one has answered what a "stride" is yet.

[shniggens]

Originally posted by DanS:

Originally posted by shniggens:

 

 

Luckily, Bach usually fits well under my vertically challenged sausages.

Add a few links. [/QB]

http://www.colorado4x4.org/ubb/graemlins/spit.gif

[shniggens]

Originally posted by jla@hib.no:

 

no one has answered what a "stride" is yet.

Stride is that ragtime style that alternates between the root and the 5th on beats 1 and 3 in the lower registers. On beats 2 and 4 you play a closed position chord an octave higher. At least that's the basic stride I know from playing not enough ragtime.

 

I'm sure more modern jazz and blues stride is a lot more complicated, and I'd like to hear some more ideas for stride left hand.