Superbobus Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Oh boy, I played a A100 today! With a Leslie (144?). The beast sounded awesome and my VK8 totally wimps out! Well, I was warned and maybe it just feels like it now, but here's a future option list. Would I - buy a Hammond + Leslie (expensive!), or - buy a Leslie for my VK8, or - buy a laptop and B4? The laptop is anyway going to be there soon. http://www.bobwijnen.nl Hipness is not a state of mind, it's a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Fortner Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 If you don't have cartage and roadies, carrying even a chopped Hammond will get old, real fast. The best compromise is one of the short-cabinet Leslies (142 or 145, I prefer the 142 for its balanced audio), or something like the new Motion Sound Pro-145, along with your VK-8. I have an A-100 at home, and bring a VK-7 and Leslie 142 to gigs, connecting them with the usual Trek II pedal. If you're using it in the studio and don't plan on lugging it around. get the real thing. If it's been properly cared for, you won't be sorry. Plus, you'll own a piece of music history that they don't make anymore. (The "new B3" notwithstanding, though it does sound great.) Stephen Fortner Principal, Fortner Media Former Editor in Chief, Keyboard Magazine Digital Piano Consultant, Piano Buyer Magazine Industry affiliations: Antares, Arturia, Giles Communications, MS Media, Polyverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbobus Posted September 26, 2003 Author Share Posted September 26, 2003 I'm using my "Hammond" mostly for gigging. BTW, does anybody know about Motion Sound in Holland? I never saw those amps over here. http://www.bobwijnen.nl Hipness is not a state of mind, it's a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I'm moving an A100 around with my band now, and I wouldn't have it any other way! (It's not chopped, and I don't use the pedals or bench.) It weighs @ 230 lbs, so two of us can move it - it's a far cry from moving a B3 or C3 (both of those weigh over a hundred lbs more than the A100). I use a MotionSound Pro3T, and feed the low-rotor sim into a Marshall stack. So while any of the options you mention will work fine, only one will feel like the real thing. Don't discount the positive effect that feel can have on your playing, on your stage presence, on the band (my band is still wowed every time I take an organ solo), and therefore on the audience. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmieWannaB Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 ... buy a laptop and B4? IMHO NI's B4 is about as close to the real thing as you're going to get. While you were going through forum withdrawal, I got a B3 and Leslie and, while B4 not 100%, when comparing them, I was surprised how close it came to the real thing. For example, since this is my first Hammond, I didn't know about the last octave or so repeating on the upper drawbars. I noticed this phenomena (foldback?) when testing the B3, one note at a time on each individual drawbar. When I first heard it, I envisioned having to solder broken wires on the keys. I checked with the Hammond Technical List and found this to be normal. (Thinking it through, this makes sense. If the notes didn't repeat on the 1' drawbar, the higher ones would exceed typical hearing frequencies.) Long story short, I checked my B4 software and found that it duplicated the effect. How many other clones picked up this type of nuance? Final plug for B4: I live in an apartment and don't want to be tossed out for being too loud. I run the B3 through the B4's Leslie emulator to allow for headphones. The sound is amazing. If only I can come up with a way to record it. The record side of my audio card acts as B4's input so recordings are of the B3 pre-Leslie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humannoyed Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Super b, I am going to say your best option next the real deal is your VK8 through a 122 or 147 Leslie. Try that if you think you wouldn't mind hauling one around. I think you will be surprized at the difference. Although not nearly as problematic as carrying a Hammond it is still a big box and will require a van or trailer and some assistance to move. The next best option will be the smaller 145 which has less oomph but most of the sound of the 122. If you have a pickup with a camper shell, a dolly, and a good back you may can move that one yourself. The Motion Sound products are next in line with even less oomph, but MUCH less problematic to carry. Of course adding B4 sure ain't gonna hurt either, especially with a real Leslie. I just bought B4, but am waitng on a new computer before installing. And now I have question: Can the VK8 or any of the current drawbar organs control B4 through their drawbars. I guess what I'm asking is: Which of the currently available organs send out sysex from drawbar manipulation that can control B4? Real time control of the drawbars is very important in live performing. Day B3, Leslie, MS KBR-M owner "It is a danger to create something and risk rejection. It is a greater danger to create nothing and allow mediocrity to rule." "You owe it to us all to get on with what you're good at." W.H. Auden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmieWannaB Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Can the VK8 or any of the current drawbar organs control B4 through their drawbars. It depends upon whether you can change the midi controller number from the VK8. I supplemented my Alesis QS6.1 with a cheezy little Edirol keyboard for this very reason. The Edirol's sliders and pots are programmable so I used its sliders for the B4's upper manual and pots for lower. The Edirol acted as my uppper manual keyboard and the QS as my lower manual. Now that I have the real thing, I've set the Edirol aside. I may pull it back out as the controller for my FM7 software however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasher Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 RemPro software makes a shareware app, B4 Buddy, that should work for you. Incidentally, I find the add-on drawbars for the B4 sound more authentic (even the 'pure' set distort more than either of my A-100s.) Personally, I like my Voce V3 with their drawbars, they did the foldback right, it sounds more like the real thing to me, though it has technical issues. Dasher It's all about the music. Really. I just keep telling myself that... The Soundsmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogaddict Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Nice to see that you´re back, Superbobus! I too have a pro-3t, and it makes a huge difference, especially on a smaller stage. If you play organ bass, you may find the low-pro a little wimpy compared to a 122 or 147, but other than that it´s a treat. I A/B:d my pro-3t top with low rotor simulation run through a bass amp to a Leslie 122, and it was harder than i thought to tell the difference. /J nas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbobus Posted September 26, 2003 Author Share Posted September 26, 2003 Originally posted by Analogaddict: Nice to see that you´re back, Superbobus! I too have a pro-3t, Thanx dude, where did you get it? http://www.bobwijnen.nl Hipness is not a state of mind, it's a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I highly recommend the B4, it sounds incredible. Hell, you could get it for free via Kazaa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbobus Posted September 26, 2003 Author Share Posted September 26, 2003 Hey, I'm gonna use that stuff professional live on stage, so no Kazaa, or Poisoned for Mac. I have a cracked version to try it and it's amazing. I'd be willing to pay for it, it's cheap anyway. But right now I'm thinking more VK8+Leslie speaker. Leslies are harder to steal than laptops... http://www.bobwijnen.nl Hipness is not a state of mind, it's a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Originally posted by Superbobus: Hey, I'm gonna use that stuff professional live on stage, so no Kazaa, or Poisoned for Mac. I have a cracked version to try it and it's amazing. I'd be willing to pay for it, it's cheap anyway. But right now I'm thinking more VK8+Leslie speaker. Leslies are harder to steal than laptops...We had a local player who kept his rick in his truck - B3 and Leslie. They stole his truck. So he went out and bought a new rig. And they recovered his truck. With his rig still in the back undamaged. So now he has two rigs! So I guess a B and Leslie is hard to steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Actually, ALL these clones do foldback properly: Roland VK7/VK8/760, Korg BX3/CX3, Voce V3/V5, Hammond XK2 - as well as B4 and some other hardware/software clones. They all shoot for those details - foldback, leakage, click, distortion, Leslie slow/fast ramp-up - with some going even further and simulating motor wind-down and other details. Originally posted by JimmieWannaB: How many other clones picked up this type of nuance? I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I would get a new Motion Sound 145, if it were me. In these parts a new leslie 122 goes for about $2500. I run a voce v5 through a motion sound amp. I have a pro3t/low pro set, and a kbr-m amp, and I think the portability, smaller size, lighter weight, is the way to go. I like the looks of the MS 145. If you run your roland vk, I'd go that way,too. If I had a b3 or a100 or c3, etc and did not have to move it, I'd get a leslie. I have to move mine however, and go for the light weight. The rotary speaker will remove the wimp factor from the roland - you will notice some added stones. I think the trade off is ok; I can't really tell much difference in the sound, truthfully. I am real satisfied with my rig now. I bet any of the on line retailers - musicians friend, zzounds, etc. will ship to the netherlands. "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbobus Posted September 26, 2003 Author Share Posted September 26, 2003 Originally posted by daveloving: I bet any of the on line retailers - musicians friend, zzounds, etc. will ship to the netherlands.That sux. Then I can't try it before I buy it. And what about shipping costs? And I have to get a credit card too. VISA and AE are sooo obnoxious in Holland. They both say my income is too low... WTF? What a hassle, thanx anyway. Byrd, you made my day! http://www.bobwijnen.nl Hipness is not a state of mind, it's a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogaddict Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 www.jiconcept.com is the european distributor, I don´t know anything about stores in Holland. I´ve seen some second hand MS products on ebay Deutschland, maybe you can find some links there. I really dig the sound, it can get really close to a 122. /J nas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmieWannaB Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 VISA and AE are sooo obnoxious in Holland. They both say my income is too low... WTF? Too bad you don't have MusiciansFriend in Holland. They even extend credit to deadbeats like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Quit screwing around, you're a player. Get the real (clone) deal. B3P Also, I have the Leslie 21 which I prefer over the Motion Sound Pro3T. I drive it with the B4 and it sounds very nice. I never had much luck getting the clones to sound right with the Motion Sound. It was a tone thing. The Leslie 21 didn't have that issue, plus the horn is electronically driven and controlled as opposed to the Motion Sound which uses belts. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmieWannaB Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Get the real (clone) deal. B3P Very cool. A B3 at 40% the weight! Has anyone heard a comparison to the "real thing?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 That B3P looks pretty cool! It would be even cooler if the stand looked a bit less like a folding table. I dunno, maybe a woodgrain covering for the legs andd a veneer round the sides.... I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbobus Posted September 27, 2003 Author Share Posted September 27, 2003 It would be really cool if that monster wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg! http://www.bobwijnen.nl Hipness is not a state of mind, it's a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Superbobus, Musicians Friend just wants to sell the stuff. If they'd issue me a "Platinum Card" the bar can't be set too high. They even have free shipping - I bet you can negotiate that all the way to Holland. Trust us, you'll love the sound - and the weight - of the Motion Sound 145. It even has wheels, and the same tough finish as a sprayed on pick-up truck bed liner. Tube pre-amp, adjustable clean to crunch overdrive. Oh well, I digress. That B3P looks waay cool. You are thinking in the right direction - nothing sounds better. Good luck with the hunt. "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanZea Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Superbobus, At www.musik-produktiv.de they sell some stuff of Motion-sound. It's in Germany and you'll only pay some shipping cost extra. Grtz, Jeroen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbobus Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 Hey, that's new! Thanx, I know that store. Bought my P120 there. Good customer service. http://www.bobwijnen.nl Hipness is not a state of mind, it's a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rod76 Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 You have lots of alternatives to a console hammond. Ever thought about a L100. 2 guys can actually lift it in the air. Or maybe a Porta-B essentially the same thing but easier to carry around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canoehead Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Download the version 2 software for your VK8. The Leslie sim is greatly improved, IMHO. That being said, a VK8 into a real Leslie is.. well, a truly beautiful thing. cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbobus Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 Okay, how do I get that OS update from my Mac (OS X and OS 9) into my VK8? My idea for which way to go is the following. I'm anyway gonna go for a laptop. Then I just put B4 on it. The amplification comes later. Of course I would love to have a real Hammond+Leslie but I'm not able to drive with my eyesight, so I want to keep things as compact as possible. http://www.bobwijnen.nl Hipness is not a state of mind, it's a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbobus Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 So I donwloaded the OS update. The Readme says something about a sequencer being able to work with SMF data. I have Logic 4.8 on OS 9 (I know, I know). Does that work? http://www.bobwijnen.nl Hipness is not a state of mind, it's a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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