Help me pick out a new CPU/Mothaboard/Hard Drive.

[Super 8]

I've been sitting on this for far too long, and I need to get these new parts for my computer so I can get my wife's computer back to her. I'm showing a preference for Asus and probably AMD. A lot of people have some great things to say about them, and I'm not sure that Intel has anything over them apart from price. Hard Drives? I really don't know. I know I need one before this one I'm using finally clicks it's last click. I want to get some nice stuff, but I really don't see any reason to be on the cutting edge. Cutting edge is new and expensive -I don't need either of those. I'd prefer to keep costs down so I can put the money saved into some other goodies I'm looking to add in the near future. And YES, this computer will be used for music (though, not exclusively) I'm ALL ears! What do you recommend?

[Super 8]

Hey, look people! I got questions!!! I got concerns!!! I needs help!!! Throw me a freak'n bone, here... [img]http://www.hollywood-costumes.com/austinpowers/assets/images/evil2_1_.jpg[/img]

[not Cereal]

[img]http://www.macworld.com/2000/11/reviews/images/g4.jpg[/img]

[gtrmac]

The truth is that Intel is far more reliable than AMD. Yes people use AMD successfully and rave about the power but a 2.4GHz Pentium 4 is very reasonable priced now. And 2.4GHz is a hell of a CPU. There are always hardware compatability problems cropping up with AMD systems and the problems are not the CPU but are the third party chipsets used in the motherboard. I have built several dozen PC's based on Asus motherboards with Intel chipsets and they have all been rock solid and crash free. My current configuration is the Asus P4PE with a P4 2.4GHz B-step Northwood CPU. I would also check the reviews on the new Asus P4G8X mobo. This one has all the new features including Serial-ATS, Firewire, Dual Channel DDR RAM, and it will support the 3GHz CPU's with Hyperthreading. Even if you don't get the lates CPU now it is worth having the support when they are more reasonable in price. I've been using Maxtor D-740X drives lately. They're quiet and reliable.

[Alndln]

[quote]Originally posted by gtrmac: [b]The truth is that Intel is far more reliable than AMD. [/b][/quote]In a Galaxy far far way,there was a time when.......................... :D

[Anderton]

Read the August 2002 issue of EQ magazine on rolling your own computer by Pete Leoni. I built the system (dual AMDs with Tyan motherboard) and it just absolutely rocks. And yes, the right motherboard is a HUGE issue with a computer, and yes, some third party chip sets for the AMD have been problematic. The Tyan is not, and has worked fine with everything I've thrown at it. I must say that with this computer, I'm finding out what digital audio on a computer SHOULD be like!!!! More plug-ins? Sure! Just make sure you get lots of RAM, and dual removable hard drives. It's a great way to back up data.

[Alndln]

[quote]Originally posted by Anderton: [b]some third party chip sets for the AMD have been problematic. [/b][/quote]Thats pretty much it in a nutshell.The AMD 760-761(Leone Machine)was the first stable chipset,then came the SiS 735-745 then the Nforce 415.The newer NForce 2 chipset that supports the new 333-400FSB AMD Bartons are still going through growing pains and is a bios update or 2 away.For AMD the low-down is this,for a dual setup the AMD 761 chipset is your only choice,for a single chip the SiS 735-745 chipset is unbeatable and rock solid beyond dispute,for newer AMD chips the NForce 2 or the new SiS is highly recommended.Get any of those chipsets on Asus/Abit or MSI brand boards.For Intel stick with Intel chipsets on Asus boards.For both get quality DDR(Mushkin/Crucial)directly from their respective sites and quality PSU(Powersupply).Get 400W or higher,and stick with Sparkle/Enermax or Antec.The most important advice I can give you is the last 2 recommendations,Quality power and Quality DDR memory.

[Super 8]

Thanks for all the great advise. You guys ROCK! Now, does anyone have an opinion on external hard drives which could be used for the purpose of recording audio, and be either plugged into my main desktop, or disconnected and used with a laptop to record on location? I hear about Firewire, USB, SCSI. I know SCSI can be problematic, but is quite fast. USB, is supposedly getting better for doing this kind of thing than it used to be. I am aware of Firewire, but I have no knowledge of it. Thanks

[Philip OKeefe]

Super 8, IMO, the Athlon CPU's are the price / performance champs. I've built 4 systems in the past couple / few months, and all have been great performers. I like the Asus mobos. My latest is the brand new A7N8X with a Athlon 2700 CPU. Craig's right about checking out the EQ article, but remember, a dual CPU mobo will NOT work with Pro Tools at this time, so if that's your DAW of choice, make sure you go with a good single CPU machine. Here's a thread over on the DUC (Digidesign User's Group) where we've been discussing self built systems, and specific components (and prices) are listed. You might want to check it out: http://duc.digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=32;t=004858

[Super 8]

OKAY, THIS IS WHAT I'VE GOT SO FAR -CHECK IT OUT. Does look like I'm hooking up with the right stuff? Is there anything that isn't looking right? Phil, I using Sonar, but I'm probably going to stick with a single CPU this time around. I am looking at going with AMD over Intel if it will be stable. Nothing against Intel, but if AMD can do it as good for less then I think they deserve my business. Now if we could just do something about Microsoft... I haven't selected memory, power supply, or a cooling fan yet. This is just the mobo, CPU, and hard drive. Here are the links: [url=http://www.compuplus.com/insidepage.php3?sid=meeepvv6773bmfk&id=313&track=searchViewed]Asus motherboard.[/url] [url=http://www.compuplus.com/insidepage.php3?sid=0ckhtnw1k746ct8&id=629]AMD CPU[/url] [url=http://www.compuplus.com/insidepage.php3?refer=cnet.com&id=483]Maxtor hard drive[/url] Once again that's for your help!

[deanmass]

Hmmm... In my not-so-humble opinion, AMD rocks. That statement about P4's being way better is just crap. [url=http://www.tomshardware.com]www.tomshardware.com[/url] Read the reviews. Mate the mobo to processor, don't just match em up at random. Measure twice, cut once...

[Alndln]

[quote]Originally posted by Super 8: [b]Does look like I'm hooking up with the right stuff? Is there anything that isn't looking right? ![/b][/quote]Great mobo choice,you'll have no problem with the A7S333(SiS 745 chipset).I'd go with the Western Digital "J" series with the 8mb cache way over any Maxtor,even the new Ata 133's.Also you may want to stick with Ati Agp Graphic cards for better compatibility.And again,high quality DDR and PSU are key here,in fact get your memory here and save yourself a huge headache [url=http://www.mushkin.com]www.mushkin.com[/url] Also make sure the CPU your getting is a T-Bred A or B,not an older "Palomino"which are around in abundance.Another good place to buy is here [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/catalog.asp]www.newegg.com/app/catalog.asp[/url]

[RM]

Is Granite Bay chipset out yet? That and a Hyper Threading shredding P-4 3+ghz, with Nuendo 2, I'll wait... Thanks, Rob

[ECBRules]

I have disregarded maxtor HD's as junk in the past, but does anybody have any reason these drives may be better than Western Digital drives? I've been relatively trouble free with 80 gig WD drives. (Any bigger performance goes down) i have independantly come to the conclusion that the IBM deskstars suck.

[Super 8]

People are funny about their hard drives. I used to manage a fledgling computer store a couple of years ago, and we'd get people in who "wouldn't touch a Western Digital piece-o-crap if it were given to 'em for free". They wanted Maxtor. Then we'd get people that said the same about Maxtor, and they wanted Western Digital. Who knows? The only thing I don't care for about Maxtors is that they insist on not printing their jumper settings on the drive. Really makes it a pain if you don't have a chart or have them committed to memory. Apart from that, the Maxtors I've used have held up okay. Oddly enough, I have had a Western digital that crapped out on me, and the drive I'm using now (which is giving me the tell-tale 'clicking' sounds which means it's gonna stop working pretty soon) is also a Western Digital. But I don't expect hard drives to last forever, so if my next drive is a Western Digital, that would be okay by me. (now if THAT one craps out... :rolleyes: )

[Super 8]

[quote]Originally posted by Alndlalalalalanta Clause: [b][QUOTE]Originally posted by Super 8: [qb]Also make sure the CPU your getting is a T-Bred A or B,not an older "Palomino" which are around in abundance.Another good place to buy is here [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/catalog.asp]www.newegg.com/app/catalog.asp[/url] [/b][/quote]Thanks, I will check out the link. When I was last immersed in this stuff, the Athlon "Thunderbird" was the talk. I don't know about the "Palomino" or the "T-bred" (which I'm assuming was NOT a type-O?). Can you tell me about the 'A' versus the 'B' versions that you mentioned? Basically, I just need to know if it's going to make a difference to me. A note regarding GTRmac's preference for Intel: I know that he builds systems for a living, and I respect his expertise in this matter. When you build custom computers (audio/visual pro systems I believe) for businesses, you are smarter to play it safe rather than have a bunch of people on your case over the crap Athlon system you told them should work just as well. So I don't know if he keeps up on AMD's development and any issues with chipsets and compatibility issues. If he knows Intel works for sure, why bother with the other? If he would like to chime in with any knowledge he might have on current AMD/chipset issues, I would certainly like to hear it. I'm not biased at all! I want what is going to work for me and not cost alot. [i]okay maybe I'm a little in favor of the 'underdog'. But if I was that in favor of the small guy, I'd be using a Mac wouldn't I?[/i]

[Alndln]

Here's the AMD pecking order,Athlon=TBird=Palomino=T-bred A=T-Bred=B=Barton=Hammer.The T-Bred A's are simply betterperformers,the T-Bred B's feature a newly revised core and generate less heat and are overclockable and come in 2 flavors,a 266 MHZ front sidebus(FSB) and a 333(2400ghz-2800ghz)FSB.The Bartons will also come in 2 flavors,333FSB and the upcoming 400FSB.Then sometime early 2003 we'll see the AMD Hammer which is a 64 bit archetchture in nature and will require new sockets/boards.Intel will be debuting a new chip soon that features hyperthreading and higher clock speeds and higher than 500mhz FSB.AMD chips perform more fpu instructions per cycle and Intel counters by jacking up the power and FSB,in other words they respond to the fight with brute force.Although I don't build for a living Iv'e built plenty for freinds and myself and am assuredly on top of whats availible and howit performs.When someone says that Intel chipsets are a safer bet that tells me they are out of touch AMD-wise and havent kept abreast.The SiS 735/745 and Nforce 415 are as solid as they come period.To me the choice boils down to this,if you want brute power and faster rendering speed go with Intel,if you want more intelligent fpu handeling per dollar go AMD.Stability is not an issue anymore.The one strike Intel has going against it at the moment is the "Dernormalazation" problem which is pretty serious for many users.If your not familiar with the P4 "Dernormalazation" problem do a search,especially at Cubase.net.In a nut shell,a variety of plugins cause the cpu to spike prematurely.Anyway,thats my 2 cents wrapped up.Next?

[Super 8]

Wow, you sure know your stuff! I used to know more about this stuff but you step back for 30 seconds, and everything you knew becomes a history lesson! Anyway, DDR SDRAM: I seek your blessing on the following... Checked Mushkin. Checked Crucial. They seem to be 20 or 30 bucks less. 512MB DDR PC2700 • CL=2.5 • Unbuffered • Non-parity • 6ns • 2.5V • 64Meg x 64 $148.49 ([i]But I think I can talk 'em down to $148.48[/i]) Seemed like a pretty kick-arse price to me! I think I spent that much just to get my TRS-80CoCo up to 16k :D . Man those prices have come down! I still need a cooler and power supply, and I'm starting to feel my budget starting to top out. I'm getting very close to the $400 mark, and I'm not seeing much that could be cut back here. I was trying to stay within $300. I suppose I could go with 256MB for $71.09. That would save me around $80 which could be applied to the other items I need and shipping costs.

[Alndln]

[quote]Originally posted by Super 8: [b] Seemed like a pretty kick-arse price to me[/b][/quote]Yeah,Ram prices like the stock market seem to jump(sucks sometimes),but if you gamble with budget ram you'll most likely be buying twice.Crucial is fine though.As far as Power goes, go with Sparkle,theyr'e much cheaper than Enermax and Antec and spec out just as good or better.You could get everything OEM(unboxed )here [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/catalog.asp]www.newegg.com/app/catalog.asp[/url] ,as this is the most trusted OEM site by AMD builders,and they always return promptly if theres any problem.I buy OEM from them all the time and have yet to experience a problem(going on 3 years).If you need an emty case they also have this Maxtop case for $31.00 [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=11-150-017-09.jpg/11-150-017-10.jpg/11-150-017-13.jpg/11-150-017-14.jpg/11-150-017-15.jpg/11-150-017-12.jpg/11-150-017-11.jpg]www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=11-150-017-09.jpg/11-150-017-10.jpg/11-150-017-13.jpg/11-150-017-14.jpg/11-150-017-15.jpg/11-150-017-12.jpg/11-150-017-11.jpg[/url] You can save a few bucks here and I can vouch for the case since I use it myself.

[Philip OKeefe]

Your Mobo looks like a good choice. As far as CPU, get a 2200 or 2400 if you can afford the extra $. Hard disks are a personal choice. The 8 MB buffers are nice to have, but outside of that, I've had good luck and bad with ALL major brands at one point or the other. RAM is VERY important - make sure you don't skimp. While I'm currently using Samsung, I'd normally prefer / recommend Crucial or Corsair. The [url=http://www.newegg.com]www.newegg.com[/url] suggestion is a good one - their prices and service are generally very good. Also check [url=http://www.pricewatch.com]www.pricewatch.com[/url] for the BEST available deals on whatever products you're looking for. If for example, store XYZ has the RAM for less but wants more for the mobo and CPU, maybe you can use THEIR RAM price as a negotiating tool with store ABC, who has a better price on CPU / mobo, but wants more for the RAM...

[Audiobotica]

One of my engineers has a an old PIII 533 that crashes when he tries to render long WAV's out of Logic. I think I'm going to replace it with this: Asus A7N8X Deluxe $153 AMD Athlon XP 2700 $237 Thermaltake Volcano 9 Cool Mod $29 Chieftec Alum Full Tower w/two case fans $83 Antec 430W PS $78 1G Crucial PC2700 (512 X 2) $140 X 2 WD800JB HD $112 ATI 128 RagePro AGP $31 TEAC 48/16/48 CDRW $79 Teac floppy $9 Full system price = $1185 Prices are Newegg and direct from Crucial. If my head of production calls foul about the price, I might go with the regular A7N8X and an AMD 2400 which would bring it down to $1091. What do y'all think of this box design?

[Alndln]

[quote]Originally posted by Audiobotica: [b]I think I'm going to replace it with this: Asus A7N8X Deluxe $153 ATI 128 RagePro AGP $31 [/b][/quote]Great selection all around except the NForce 2 chipset's AGP will only support the ultra new 8X AGP spec and is not backward compatible(with older AGP cards) from what I hear.Be careful there.Also the Asus A7N8X and all NForce 2 based boards are stuck in pio mode(at the moment) and are having trouble with IDE controller cards as well due the new onboard Ata 133 spec.This problem is a bios fix away since the board/chipset are brand new.So be aware of both the IDE and AGP issues at present.

[Audiobotica]

Thanks for the tip Alndlalalalaurante! Need this thing up and running fast so I guess I'll stick with the good old A7S333 and stay from the bleeding edge A7N8X... and save $90! Woohoo!