What about 10" speakers?

[Michelle ggurl]

Hi all:

 

In a thread a while ago, someone mentioned he uses two JBL G2 10s for his keys amplification. Does anyone else have comparitive experience using two high-quality 10" speakers in stereo for their rig? I'm looking at this option, especially since Mackie will be coming out with the "little brother" versions of the 15"-equipped SRM 450s. I figure, lighter, smaller, and cheaper so going stereo wouldn't be so financially painful. The new product, the SRM 350, is due out "early Q4 2003." So, possibly anytime now. I'm wonder if I should bother waiting till they come out to compare them to G2 10s, or if entertaining the idea of 10s is a waste of time ....

 

... will I be missing the bass???

 

I play in a quartet, doing jazz/fusion/rock instrumentals. We have a bass player so I'm mainly staying out of his way. I mainly play organ, piano and e. piano sounds, some strings, pads, horns. nothing too weird.

 

Some streams of the kind of stuff we do is on our website, http://www.zspmusic.com/songs.htm but I think the explanation above is accurate.

 

Any feedback appreciated. Thanks!

[Dave Pierce]

I'm no speaker expert. But if you play a lot of Hammond-style organ, with smears and all, I would think long and hard about losing bass response. The biggest thing I miss in my Motion-Sound is the fat bass response I used to get from a larger amp rig. I don't mind it so much with pianos, EP's, and synths -- but when I do a fat Hammond smear starting from the bottom end, it's just not all there.

 

Something to think about, anyway.

 

--Dave

[petros]

Mackie SRM 450s use 12" speakers, not 15", and are great for digital piano. 10" should be OK too. alarge percentage of bass players use either two or four 10" speakers.

[Slowly]

I was running a pair of tens in my car. Went to 12's. I'm going back to the tens. Kcbass

[Michelle ggurl]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

 

Yeah, Dave, I was concerned about that too, but the smears seem to get lost in the band's sound to a large degree anyway, even when my sound is generally out enough in the band's mix. Maybe it's the way I play, I dunno. What Motion SOund model are you using?

 

Petros, huh, I didn't know the SRM 450 had 12s. That's cool ...

 

I definitely like 2 x 10 cabs for bass and of course Motion Sound and Barbetta outfit some of their models with 2 10s, so I thought it wasn't beyond the realm of possibility ...

 

Anway, thanks again. I think I will wait till the 350s are out to try 'em.

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by geekgurl:

Anway, thanks again. I think I will wait till the 350s are out to try 'em.

Ms. GeekGurl,

 

I was going to say this, but you beat me to it!

 

The larger JBL EON G2 speakers use 15" woofers. My EON is the older model 15-PAK. The bass is fine - no problem. Their smaller units use 10" woofers, I believe. I do know that Larry Carlton uses two of these with his guitar rig. But that's a GUITAR rig and he doesn't need the low frequency response that you need if you're playing organ programs.

 

I have not auditioned the SRM-450s with an organ program. I would think they would be OK, but I can't (and won't) say without hearing them.

 

The bottom line is (you guessed it) take your keyboard and audition all the speakers you are considering. Speakers sound very different from one another. It will be relatively easy for you to make a decision once you hear them. I promise!

 

If weight is a factor, then the smaller Mackies may be just what you want. The SRM450s and the JBL G2 are manageable, but just barely (I'm no football player!)...

 

The sound... it's in the sound!! Trust your ears and you'll make the right decision!

 

Is There Gas In The Car?

[Lee Tyler]

Originally posted by geekgurl:

Hi all:

 

In a thread a while ago, someone mentioned he uses two JBL G2 10s for his keys amplification. Does anyone else have comparitive experience using two high-quality 10" speakers in stereo for their rig? I'm looking at this option, especially since Mackie will be coming out with the "little brother" versions of the 15"-equipped SRM 450s. I figure, lighter, smaller, and cheaper so going stereo wouldn't be so financially painful. The new product, the SRM 350, is due out "early Q4 2003." So, possibly anytime now. I'm wonder if I should bother waiting till they come out to compare them to G2 10s, or if entertaining the idea of 10s is a waste of time ....

 

... will I be missing the bass???

 

I play in a quartet, doing jazz/fusion/rock instrumentals. We have a bass player so I'm mainly staying out of his way. I mainly play organ, piano and e. piano sounds, some strings, pads, horns. nothing too weird.

 

Some streams of the kind of stuff we do is on our website, http://www.zspmusic.com/songs.htm but I think the explanation above is accurate.

 

Any feedback appreciated. Thanks!

I play/compose/arrange using a Kurzweil K2600X synth/workstation, and even the venerable SRM450 was a bit lacking in the deep bottom I required to be happy. Ended up with the passive S-500's and the Mackie 808s stereo power-mixer. I will never look back. I'm covered to the max. ---Lee

[David Loving]

Check out the new Carvin catalog. They have a monster keyboard combo amp with 2 10's that you can angle up like a monitor. If I didn't have the brakes on I'd get one. I just bought a kbr-m and a vintage keys vk6 though, so I'm out of the game for a while.

 

Dave, what is your motion sound set up? I run a low pro/pro3t stack through an old crate 15" k160 amp, eq'd bass heavy,[with the output jack on the pro3t] and that cranks up the bass considerably. You can also direct that out to the pa, or you can just use the output jack on the pro3t to feed the pa if you don't use another amp. I agree there is nothing like that big leslie bass cpeaker. Odd though, Leslie's own simulator [like a pro-3] just out, uses a 12" too

[coyote]

First off, I listened to some of the tracks on your site. Great material, and excellent playing! When (or if, lol) I become a grown-up keyboardist I wanna be able to play like that.

 

As for the 10" speakers, all I can say is TRY 'EM! Most music stores have a 30-day return policy. The only real way to know whether they'll work is to use them in context, and listen carefully.

[Michelle ggurl]

Cool, thanks for the additional inputs, everyone! I forgot about Carvin, thanks Dave for the tip to check them out. Lee, yeah, I'm trying to balance need for a nice full sound with relative portability. The band isn't gigging out yet but when it does I imagine we'll be playing small/medium-size clubs I need something that doesn't rely on the house to get our monitoring right, you know how that goes.

 

Gas (is your name from your name reference to Steely Dan's "Kid Charlemagne" by any chance?), interesting about Carlton. Seems a squeaky-clean way to go for guit, even for him. I always counted 10s out for keys until this crop of Barbettas and Motion Sounds with 'em cropped up. Good luck wrasslin' Isabel! Damn, I was in New Orleans on biz-ness when Andrew hit many moons ago, that that was weird. I'm used to earthquakes, not hurricanes ...

 

Coyote, thanks for the compliments.

 

Thanks again, all.

 

Cheers,

 

gg

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by geekgurl:

Hi all:

 

In a thread a while ago, someone mentioned he uses two JBL G2 10s for his keys amplification. Does anyone else have comparitive experience using two high-quality 10" speakers in stereo for their rig?

A lot of bass players run 4 10" speakers. That gives you 314 sq in of surface versus about 176 for 1 15". So you can generate the same volume of bass with almost half the voice coil throw. Plus the cones will be lighter and will stay in phase to higher frequencies so the mid-range is better.

[Anomaly]

I use 450s. Actually in most of the jazz clubs, we use the 450 out front and I just use a pair of SRV 80 EVs as near field monitors. They work out fine, but again, we don't use stage amps. Guitarist uses a Pod and we all go direct.

But, when we do big concerts, I use the 450s as stage sytem and they are awesome.

I didn't know about the 350's. I may have to get a pair of them.

Remember!! This should be a no brainer, but I made the mistake myself and I have run into a bunch of othe musicians that did the same: You have to use Balanced cables on the powered Mackies. You can use unbalanced, but you won't have any low end and only about half the power. I couldn't believe the difference.

You would think after after 37 years of live playing I would have a little more technical knowledge. Just have too much fun playing, I guess.

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by Anomaly:

You have to use Balanced cables on the powered Mackies. You can use unbalanced, but you won't have any low end and only about half the power.

You should use balanced cables. However, if you are using unbalanced cables you just turn up the volume on the back. If you don't though you should get 1/4 of the power not 1/2.

 

As for bass. It should not matter. I cannot think of a plausible way that would happen.

[Michelle ggurl]

Cool, 10" seems plausible. Byrdman, I'm intrigued by your mathematical explanation of surface area. My geometry is rusty. How do you find the area of a circle when you know the diameter? (I see 314 for the 10, so a coupla wayz involving pi that I can screw that up for sure ...)

 

My deal is, tho, I'm only going to be using 1x10s, but 2 of them. Ultimately of course I will let my ears decide, when I try them out. This is interesting tho.