Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

Using the K2661 as a hardware engine for plug-ins


Geosync

Recommended Posts



  • Replies 20
  • Created
  • Last Reply

VAST has never been an issue for me, but KDFX makes my head spin. :D

 

It's actually a really cool principle. Not only is the K2661 playing its own sounds, but it can process soft synth sounds and act as a hardware controller for expressive performance all at once. Someone smarter than me is going to have a lot of fun with this setup. ;)

 

:thu:

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Postman:

I've often thought that the live mode of the k26 series has been under appreciated. It's more than just a vocoder/envelope follower. Good to see it's being pushed a little.

Thanks,

 

This is WAY different than Live Mode. This is substituting software plug ins or Giga sampler or ESX24 or Halion for the keymap. Actually playing the plug-in through VAST and KDFX. No sampling option needed. This could be a really big deal once people catch on to what it is. It's the bridge between Soft and Hardware synths.

Take Care,

 

George Hamilton

Yamaha US

Link to comment
Share on other sites

George, it has been a few years since I messed around with VAST, but I think I understand what you're presenting here. If you have a Giga piano, for example, as input to ADAT channels 1-2 they could show up as essentially the waveforms and keymap to a VAST program. Is that correct? You can still choose from the various algorithms, go through the filters, envelopes, FUNS and KDFX, correct? Can the DSP oscillators be added in as well? If so that's pretty brilliant. Is this functionality limited to the K2661?

 

Is it shipping yet?

 

Also, can the K2661 be clocked externally via the ADAT in?

 

Thanks.

 

Busch

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by burningbusch:

If you have a Giga piano, for example, as input to ADAT channels 1-2 they could show up as essentially the waveforms and keymap to a VAST program. Is that correct?

Yes and the K26XX would be the Keyboard for Giga so that the ENVs and Velocity etc. would act as a single unit.

 

You can still choose from the various algorithms, go through the filters, envelopes, FUNS and KDFX, correct?
Absolutely , also you can use Master/ Slave Mode to "Cross Modulate" layers. Imagine Reason as a modulation source for an ES1 or a simple vocal track from your DAW act as the Vocoder source for a giga sample or Haion or ESX 24 and to be able to use up to 32 layers AND still have 16 notes of polyphony on another program in SETUP MODE

 

Can the DSP oscillators be added in as well? If so that's pretty brilliant.
Sure why not, you are simply using you software plugin/sampler as the oscillator source for VAST. Including Triple Modular Algorithms (VAST 2)

 

Is this functionality limited to the K2661?
No , but there are some limitations and expense. You must have the DIO-26, DMTI and the ADAT option for the DMTi.

The DMTi is 16 bit only whereas the ADAT optical on the K2661 is 16,18,20 or 24bit. It is possible that we will make it easier for K2600 owners to to this in the future.

 

Is it shipping yet?
No, there will be a few in stores in a few weeks and full shipping by Mid-Oct. We expect it will be similar to the early days of the K2000. 1st come, 1st serve for a while.

 

Also, can the K2661 be clocked externally via the ADAT in?
Good point. There is always a compromise with new things.

 

The K2661 Must be Master and is fixed at 48K. I'm sure it will be an inconvience to some, but I thing the rewards will be enough that most will not find it a big problem.

 

Thanks for asking..

 

BTW, I played the K2661 for the first time last week. It's really stunning. It's a true 24bit synth and you can really tell it. It's VERY FULL and dynamic.

Take Care,

 

George Hamilton

Yamaha US

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me get this straight: the K2661 is acting as a controller for the soft synth via MIDI, right?

And the K2661 is also receiving the soft synth digital output via the ADAT input. Ok, that I can imagine.

 

But what happens when you, say, pull down the pitch wheel? Is the K2 sending a pitch wheel message to the soft synth via MIDI? Or is the K2 bending the pitch itself via it's own DSP? Or is it doing both?

 

'Cause you've got 2 synthesizers and one controller attached to both. Do you have to turn "local off"? But wouldn't that mean you can't do controller stuff to VAST at that point?

 

Where's Dan Fisher when I need him?

 

M Peasley

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by M Peasley:

Let me get this straight: the K2661 is acting as a controller for the soft synth via MIDI, right?

And the K2661 is also receiving the soft synth digital output via the ADAT input. Ok, that I can imagine.

 

But what happens when you, say, pull down the pitch wheel? Is the K2 sending a pitch wheel message to the soft synth via MIDI? Or is the K2 bending the pitch itself via it's own DSP? Or is it doing both?

 

'Cause you've got 2 synthesizers and one controller attached to both. Do you have to turn "local off"? But wouldn't that mean you can't do controller stuff to VAST at that point?

 

Where's Dan Fisher when I need him?

 

M Peasley

Local is on..

 

The ADAT In enters VAST just after the Pitch Block.

The pitch wheel will affect the Soft or External Synth.

Since there is no internal sound for that layer, there is nothing to pitch bend. BUT if you use algorithms that contain extra osillators, they will bend by the local Pitch Bend.

 

Clear as mud right?

 

The nice part for you is that it works

Take Care,

 

George Hamilton

Yamaha US

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geosync said:

The K2661 Must be Master and is fixed at 48K. I'm sure it will be an inconvience to some, but I thing the rewards will be enough that most will not find it a big problem.

Why would a manufacturer release a synth/sampler with digital I/O in late 2003, and not give it a wordclock input and the ability to slave such that it could play nicely with equipment in a larger studio? :eek:

 

Thats more than an inconvenience to many people...it might be a show-stopper.

 

Funny, but the Korg OASYS PCI has been doing this kind of processing for softsynths for years now, and as a multi-rate clock slave to boot! ;)

Go tell someone you love that you love them.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think it's a valid gripe. surely it must have been considered in the planning stage?

 

i think oasys must be similar, but different. doesn't it work internaly with its own softsynths, thru a much less developed shaping structure?

 

also, after thinking about it for a while, it sounds like you could do pretty much the same thing by running your softsynth audio thru your soundcards digital outs and into an fx unit that has filtering options which are midi-controllable.

 

still; VAST and KDFX have quite a bit to offer compared to the average fx unit.

 

and as much as i love hardware, it sure would make life a lot easier to have one good keyboard and a comprehensive soft setup.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, unfortunately, this would be a show stopper for me. All of the sample libraries that I own are 44.1K, all the loops are as well. So using using other samplers in the manner described above would be, at best, problematic. I use a quality central clock which gets distributed out to all my digital devices. I run at 44.1K because it simply makes the most sense. The final output, CD, is 44.1K. Sample rate conversion isn't just a hassle, it needs to be avoided when possible. If I were to do it, I would use a higher rate like 88/96K.

 

The idea of tightly integrating my computer synths with the K2661 as well as using KDFX as external FXs for my TDM setup is hot. It just doesn't work for me.

 

Busch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those who try and use this, I believe the complaints will be few. Once I get one, I'll do some work with it and get back to you.

 

Maybe this would make a good Keyboard Mag Review. What do you think?

Take Care,

 

George Hamilton

Yamaha US

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To make it simpler to understand, the ADAT signal goes in right where the old K2600 KDS input would pop in. Or so I assume since it is in the same place.

 

For K users this means it comes right in at the F1 block. You could do this with any digital signal with the DMTi as it offered its 16bits in AES, SPDIF, either ADAT or TDIF optional. You can also just loopback the KDS cables and run outs of other layers right back into the K26.

 

Is the limitation of not working with Triples still there. Not that big of a limitation but if you know Triple mode, the extra routing allows for some nifty stuff, hence the reason for looping back the K26 via the KDS.

 

Thinking out loud here with no real point

Names to Remember:

Charles Stepney & Emory Cook

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steve Fortner did an excellent review of the KME-61. It wasn't biased, he reviewed "in use" and pointed out it's strengths and weakness in a very straight-forward manner.

 

He knows the K2600. He could do a great job I think.

 

Maybe you guys can get him to do it..

 

AND any other reviews would be WAY cool too.

Take Care,

 

George Hamilton

Yamaha US

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...