Flamming the Snare drum

[not Cereal]

something i only recently started to get really interested in is flamming the snare; at least i think thats what its called. when a drummer does it he will hit the drum with both sticks but slightly off timing - not a roll, but a "flam". is this the right word? anyway i hear it a lot on the radio, and i dont think the drummers are doing it, it seems added "after the fact". so i have been experimenting with different ways to do it "after the fact" to see if its cool. it IS kinda cool. you can add a midi snare track and this will tend to flam up a real snare. you can add a modded delay to the snare track and flam it like that. my favorite: add a second midi snare to a midi snare. have other midi events going on, even if routed nowhere. because midi is one-peice-of-data-at-a-time the snares will never hit at the same time, and they will FLAM. if ya have other midi events going on the flam will change a lot between hits. anyway i spent the last 4 days mixing this tune that needed some spice on the snare, but i couldnt figure out what - and this flamming thing is what made it work. just thought i'd share

[KHAN]

Great. Just what we need. Another euphemism for masturbation. [i][b]"When his mom walked in unexpectedly, Billy was really Flamming the Snare drum"[/b][/i]

[not Cereal]

"Raising the KHANstandinUpole"

[KHAN]

[quote]Originally posted by CoasterBerger: [b]"Raising the KHANstandinUpole"[/b][/quote][img]http://209.51.138.26/~smilies/contrib/lilly/hmm3grin2orange.gif[/img]

[Bunny Knutson]

Try this, Coaster. Place the first snare hit slightly [i]before[/i] the beat and make it lower in volume by 2-3 dB. Place the second snare hit right on the beat, or maybe just a few milliseconds after the beat, and make sure it's loud. This should give you a very nice flam sound.

[Hippie]

Doth ye scrotum needeth kicketh? Doth ye sachel neddeth socketh? Doth ye peach-pit needeth pummeleth? Go ye to thee top of ye mountaineth, consul with ye wise Khaneth and Khaneth will speak and act upon ye and guide ye in ye quest for great sacketh stoning. Go now and be wise.

[KHAN]

[quote]Originally posted by Hippie: [b]Doth ye scrotum needeth kicketh? Doth ye sachel neddeth socketh? Doth ye peach-pit needeth pummeleth? Go ye to thee top of ye mountaineth, consul with ye wise Khaneth and Khaneth will speak and act upon ye and guide ye in ye quest for great sacketh stoning. Go now and be wise.[/b][/quote]Hippie. Please step away from the pipe. :eek: ...then pass it to me. :D

[Brakka]

It takes a real drummer two hands to do a flam, so try deleting any hats that are at the same time as the flam. If you're flamming on every snare hit, then it's more of a snare delay than a flam. Also cool :thu: And your MIDI Clog As Snare Fattener idea is insane- insane like a [i]fox[/i]. :D

[ECBRules]

Yeah, well I can flam with ONE hand! watch..... paTack put the first note on the drum and the second on the rimshot. Drop Snap baa bee! Try to play the conneticut halftime with one hand! Oh yeah. That always pisses 'em off. And then try Flam accents with double bass: Blobbity Blobbity Bloob :eek: Man Scooch was taken. I have to find a new name. Crrrack!

[not Cereal]

hey thanks brakka "insane like a fox". cool! if ya wanna check out the super-bad rough mix (actually pretty good - just got some spots yet) go ahead. check out the original too. these are on my hard drive right now - behave! (offline) there's the original mix that came into my studio, and my mix i been slaving on for a month. spam be damned! drink some beer.

[whitefang]

I took drum lessons all too briefly in the fifth grade. WAAAyyy back then, that maneuover was called a "paradiddle". Silly ass name, isn't it? Glad to see they've come up with a new one! Whitefang

[not Cereal]

well somebody downloaded it. does it suck?

[phaeton]

in the limited number of times i've actually tried playing drums, i was getting a `double hit' out of the snare.... mostly because i wasn't holding the stick tight enough- it would hit, bounce, then the meat of my hand would drive it back down (the intended snare hit). I guess you could call it the same as a FLAM. I was always told that this was indicative of [i]bad technique,[/i] but at the time i thought it sounded pretty cool.... One of these days i'll actually get into the groove of playing drums. But i need a bass guitar first :D

[not Cereal]

five people have downloaded both versions in the last hour. [i]I can See you[/i]

[KHAN]

[quote]Originally posted by CoasterBerger: [b]five people have downloaded both versions in the last hour. [i]I can See you[/i][/b][/quote]I downloaded a couple of megs of the coaster remix. I liked the music, but the drum programming sounded cheesy.

[not Cereal]

i agree. did you hear the other drums on the other tune? i am working on getting [i]those[/i] drums to work, but so far the recording of the drums is too poor to sit up in a mix. i like the original drums better than the synth machine

[jackpine]

Ditto what khan said.... Tune is cool...drums are thin.

[ECBRules]

Coaster, dig the doublings. It's Gurngretronica. Sounds like NIN meets Creed. Interesting. I think you should try to smooth out the bass tones a little bit. And more bass guitar synth! Or at least make it less grainy. That tone is outdated. Maybe if you switched the bass drum to a different sample. and get a new hat patch. I only d/l'ed Death mix. What Drum module are you using? K

[not Cereal]

on the death mix the drum box is an alesis sr-16. i loathe the thing. but it makes drums sound bad(?) i seriously have a mix that has the old drums in it - it just doesnt work yet. i love the hi hat stuff this guy did (i dont know any of these people except the singer). i plan on having a cool techno kit on my akai sampler and using the real drums too. i almost have a neat kit on the sampler - still working on it. it has that "blat kick" on it thats in the death mix after the word "clever". thanks for listening everyone. i value the comments and i agree the drums are "stinky poo" on the mix. gimme some more time :eek:

[ECBRules]

I was never akin to the sr 16. Not enough vibe. I have had a td 10 which is bomb, but I sold it for other gear, and I still have a dr-5 which is a little better that the sr16. You may be able to get a cool warm kick sound by triggering a low keyboard bass note and then gating the sound to contour the shape of a kick. Anybody seen that new yamaha kit/module? I played a floor model at GC. It had some interesting sounds but the pads stunk. K

[Brakka]

I think the "flams" on the tune sound like double-trigger mistakes. You could use 2 different drum sounds together for a better flam, if that's what you want. You have an aakai s2000, so get that bad boy going. Load it with 10 decent kicks, 10 snares, 10 hats, and 10 rims or clicks. Layer each hit. Hey, I think I remember you saying that exact same thing to someone else here :D . That drumbeat is pretty bad- sorry for the honesty. :wave: I really liked the vocal harmonies on that tune.

[ECBRules]

Aaah I just heard the perfect example of what you are talking about.... Air: Moon Safari: Remember p.s. Now this is the reference cd from hell for bass tone.

[Oiled]

[quote]Originally posted by thisOLDdude: [b]Aaah I just heard the perfect example of what you are talking about.... Air: Moon Safari: Remember p.s. Now this is the reference cd from hell for bass tone.[/b][/quote]For an even better example, listen to the song Salt Water Sound by Zero 7. Check at 2:11 into the song.

[Master Zap]

[quote]It takes a real drummer two hands to do a flam, so try deleting any hats that are at the same time as the flam.[/quote]Who gives a flying #¤)&#¤(&#"¤?")#(¤&#"¤=(&#¤)(/#¤ what a live drummer can do!?!?! /Z

[Baby]

[quote]Originally posted by Master Zap: [b] [quote]It takes a real drummer two hands to do a flam, so try deleting any hats that are at the same time as the flam.[/quote]Who gives a flying #¤)&#¤(&#"¤?")#(¤&#"¤=(&#¤)(/#¤ what a live drummer can do!?!?! /Z[/b][/quote]True that. Unless the purpose of your track is to emulate a live drummer. But the beauty is being able to do what a live drummer can't, in my humble opinion. STL

[Groovepusher Sly]

[quote]Originally posted by Skooch: [b]Yeah, well I can flam with ONE hand! watch..... paTack[/b] If you’re doing it with one hand it’s not a flam. Originally posted by whitefang: [b]I took drum lessons all too briefly in the fifth grade. WAAAyyy back then, that maneuver was called a "paradiddle". Silly ass name, isn't it? Glad to see they've come up with a new one![/b] A paradiddle is one of a hundred some odd Drum Rudiments. It’s something all musicians should learn about, especially if you’re going to program drums. Knowing the basic mechanics can help tremendously in coming up with new sounds/rhythms and, help when you’re trying to make a programed part sound realistic. Originally posted by phaetown: [b]in the limited number of times i've actually tried playing drums, i was getting a `double hit' out of the snare.... mostly because i wasn't holding the stick tight enough- it would hit, bounce, then the meat of my hand would drive it back down (the intended snare hit). I guess you could call it the same as a FLAM.[/b] That’s a type of roll. String a bunch of them together and you’ve got a buzz roll.[/quote]These aren’t all the rudiments but they are the basic ones. [url=http://www.drumnetwork.com/rudi1.htm]26 Essential Rudiments[/url] I think you can also buy recordings of the rudiments. Sly :cool:

[Mats Olsson.]

[quote]Originally posted by Master Zap: [b][QUOTE]Who gives a flying #¤)&#¤(&#"¤?")#(¤&#"¤=(&#¤)(/#¤ what a live drummer can do!?!?! /Z[/b][/quote]Lee Flier. /Mats

[Master Zap]

ROFL! Okay, lemme rephrase that... what LISTENER out of the TARGET AUDIENCE gives a ¤)&#")(¤/#)"(? ;) /Z

[Brakka]

Originally posted by Master Zap: [b]Who gives a flying #?)&#?(&#"??")#(?&#"?=(&#?)(/#? what a live drummer can do!?!?![/b] I don't try to emulate a live drummer with my drum programming, but I do play drums. It's natural for [i]me[/i] to think that way. Plus, I [i]personally[/i] like it when there are a couple of hat rests during a snare roll. :) Other stuff like that- using the "limitations" of a live drummer- can be cool. But of [i]course[/i] YMMV, and I think your drum programming is pretty great, Zap. :thu:

[Groovepusher Sly]

Coster, did the ink to the rudiments help at all? Sly :cool: