LiveMusic Posted December 7, 2002 Posted December 7, 2002 I am struggling with whether to continue to write some songs with risque' lyrics. Or lyrics with "bad words." There are "moderate" words like screw, ass, bootie, and the assorted synonyms for penis. Industrial-strength bad words like fuck. One could take the position that a writer would always be best served by never writing anything with even moderate bad words, much less, a word like fuck. I'm curious, first, what you think. And second, what you know of songs that are out there. For instance, I personally like to sometimes use "moderate" words in songs. It's becoming way more accepted these days. "Ass" or "screw" are good examples. For instance, I have a song with this line... "And there's only one or two I've ever screwed" I love this line and it makes the whole song. It's the hook. People smile at that line. I like songs like that. In other words, I tend to like to write a few irreverent songs now and then. In the mainstream, a few songs that come to mind... "Why Don't We Get Drunk And Screw" by Jimmy Buffet "Life Of The Party" by Charlie Robison (hilarious song with very clever word-play) "Pusher Man" by Steppenwolf (with the line "God damn the pusher man"... I've always really liked that song and it certainly provides some punch to the message. "Pussy Control" by Prince? (I guess that's the name of it... people went nuts over that song every time it'd play in a club.) On the other hand, Mom would have a cow if she heard some of my songs. I just can't play them if she's in earshot. I'm not going to let that stop me, though... what my mom or my family or some particular friends might object to. At least, I don't want to censor myself. I guess it does concern me or I wouldn't have started this thread. I guess what I'm wondering about is what is the best "policy." I don't know Charlie Robison but I sure dig his music and if I had to guess, I'd say he's not very worried about what anybody thinks. But he doesn't use even "moderate" bad words. The song "Life of the Party" uses word play. You'll think he's going to say "dick" but he says "Dickel" meaning the whiskey by that name. And then he uses other cleverness to steer around lines about blow jobs and such. I guess that would be a good policy. However, it seems to me that sometimes "bad words" really can't put some zing in a song. Would appreciate your comments. > > > [ Live! ] < < <
Henchman Posted December 7, 2002 Posted December 7, 2002 Well, I forone am sick of hearing words like fuck etc in every other song. I find that some of the best songs ever writtin don't have any swearing in them. IMDB Credit list President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion." President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."
Audiobotica Posted December 7, 2002 Posted December 7, 2002 Curse words can be useful in a song as an exclamation point! But if every sentence ends in an exclamation point! It fails to add anything! See what I mean!? It just ends up being silly! If you fucking curse in every fucking sentence it sounds like you have the fucking IQ of a fucking retard! Know what I fucking mean? :freak: Yours in fucking Music, Ben Fury Yours in Music, Ben Fury
LiveMusic Posted December 7, 2002 Author Posted December 7, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Henchman: [b]Well, I forone am sick of hearing words like fuck etc in every other song. I find that some of the best songs ever writtin don't have any swearing in them.[/b][/quote]The genres I listen to, it's rare. If I had to tag what I write, it's alt-country if anything. Maybe now and then, a country, blues, pop, country-rock or folkish tune. I don't listen to rap or hiphop or much pop or rock catering to very young audiences. I've heard many a tune in those genres that use "fuck" every other line. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about using them sparingly for clever effect. "Why Don't We Get Drunk And Screw" would have been very much less effective if it was "Why Don't We Get Drunk And Make Love." > > > [ Live! ] < < <
patrick_dont_fret Posted December 7, 2002 Posted December 7, 2002 Word. I don't like hearing it all the time, even though I sometimes start talking like that... I dunno, sometimes I just like to take a break from cussing. Bands such as Phish and the Grateful Dead use hardly any harsh words in their music, yet catch huge audiences. I read an interview with one of the guys from Phish, ans he was using very moderate profanity, but some nonetheless. I don't know that it would sway the audiences either way, but I certainly like their music without all the cussing and yelling that today's mainstream [i]shit[/i] has in it. Oh yeah, motherf---er. You want a piece of this, motherf---er?
Rog Posted December 7, 2002 Posted December 7, 2002 Just write the damn thing! :) Why censor yourself? there are plenty of people on this planet more than willing to do that for you. "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards.
S_Gould Posted December 8, 2002 Posted December 8, 2002 You can say anything there is to say without using the worst words (as in, the ones people find most offensive). I think 'shit' 'fuck' 'cunt' and the like could be dispensed with altogether, and the milder forms should be used sparingly - except perhaps in story songs where the words are in a character's mouth (It would sound silly for a drunk biker to say someone was "full of doo-doo"). There are many ways to have an intense emotional impact without resorting to '4 letter words'. If you think it gives you "street cred", ask yourself if unemployed dropouts buy enough CDs to make a career. (Kinda kidding there, but that kind of sensibility doesn't really go very far, and shows a lack of lyrical skill and imagination.) Unless you REALLY are totally dedicated to an urban underclass audience, you should question every cuss-word you use in a song, and see if there isn't a more creative (and even thought provoking) way to say the same thing. This is beginning to sound like a rant, which I didn't mean it to be, but I am a lover of language. Far too often our favorite swear words are used out of laziness, or for pure shock value (which they don't have much of any more). Sometimes these fine old Anglo-Saxon epithets really are the best way to say something, but those times are far less frequent than most people think. Scott
Salty Tonk Posted December 8, 2002 Posted December 8, 2002 "Give her great big tits and a tight little ass.A fucking machine that never runs out of gas.A body like nobodys ever seen before.and she recently inherited a liquer store. I wanna rich,young ,dumb nymphomaniac to drive me around in her Cadillac.If she's not down on her knees,she's flat of her back.I wanna rich,young,dumb nymphomaniac." Jason Boland from "Rich,young,dumb,nymphomaniac" :love: jgc2002 is not responsible for damages ,injuries and or death as result of above post.Side effects include nasuea,dizziness,dry mouth,vomiting,blurred vision,nervousness,loss of memory and in extreme cases sexual side effects. www.mp3.com/salt_creek
KHAN Posted December 8, 2002 Posted December 8, 2002 There are no 'bad' words, just bad lyrics. And plenty of them. So Many Drummers. So Little Time...
Nawor Posted December 8, 2002 Posted December 8, 2002 A friends elderly parents were loaned a Swing video a while back. They'd been courting during WWII when the whole big band thing was happening. So of course they were quite interested in seeing the video. However they didn't finish it. Why? Because it was Robbie Williams - 'Swing when your Winning'. There's the Big Band, the tuxedo the whole shebang and 'Mr' Williams couldn't last five minutes without a "fuck" this or a "fuck" that! :confused: I mean whoever produced this thing must have been on drugs! Talking about alienating a market! :freak: I hope EMI go under for paying this cretin such obscene amounts of money. :mad: Mr Williams go choke on your ego! [quote][b] I mean whoever produced this thing must have been on drugs! Talking about alienating a market! :freak: [/b][/quote]Then again, I'm sure they made shitloads out of it! :rolleyes: It just seemed completely unecessary thats all. "WARNING!" - this artificial fruit juice may contain traces of REAL FRUIT!!
Jazzman Posted December 8, 2002 Posted December 8, 2002 I don't think using foul language in music denotes anyone being cool or smart. I think if you can't get you thought across in music without using slang foul words to describe actions, people, or desires then you need to read a dictonary again. I think it is a slam to the music industry to hear that garbage in music, rap or otherwise. Just my freedom of speech being used here friends. Jazzman :cool:
Virtual Jim Posted December 8, 2002 Posted December 8, 2002 Go check out a dance club and see what happens to the dancefloor when the DJ puts on the song "My Neck, My Back" (a song about oral sex) and you'll have your answer. Now back my regularly scheduled lurking.
whitefang Posted December 8, 2002 Posted December 8, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Audiobotica: [b]Curse words can be useful in a song as an exclamation point! But if every sentence ends in an exclamation point! It fails to add anything! See what I mean!? It just ends up being silly! If you fucking curse in every fucking sentence it sounds like you have the fucking IQ of a fucking retard! Know what I fucking mean? :freak: Yours in fucking Music, Ben Fury[/b][/quote]Ben fuckin' Fury's got a fuckin' point! Fuckin' swearin' after every other fuckin' word gets fuckin' stale REAL fuckin' fast. Shit, man, don't fuck with shit that fuckin' leaves a shitty taste in peoples fuckin' heads, you shit! Instead, fuckin' rely on the fuckin' double intendre shit to fuckin' get your shit across. Whitefuckin' fang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
patrick_dont_fret Posted December 8, 2002 Posted December 8, 2002 [quote] I think it is a slam to the music industry to hear that garbage in music, rap or otherwise. [/quote]Hey Jazzman, I like how you separated music from rap. Verrrrry clever.
patrick_dont_fret Posted December 8, 2002 Posted December 8, 2002 Here's how country would sound with bad (but I repeat myself) lyrics: I done f'ed her all night long But she treats me f'ing wrong F that b*tch She stole my truck F that b*tch My f'ing luck And you know this, man.
Rog Posted December 8, 2002 Posted December 8, 2002 One of the great things about language is that nobody can limit it or decide which course it should take. To this end, the people calling profanity "filthy" or "dirty" or "bad" are pissing in the wind. It's this simple; if you write songs you are either an artist or a hack. If you're the former you must only censor yourself when the art merits it, not because you are worried about what other people might think. If you're a hack then do what you must in order to get the most successful product. It's that easy :) "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards.
Bralalalalalalala Posted December 8, 2002 Posted December 8, 2002 Duke: You know Mommy doesn't like the bad words. [b]Do NOT sing those filthy words or you'll be in time out so long you'll forget how old you are.[/b]
patrick_dont_fret Posted December 8, 2002 Posted December 8, 2002 Bralalalalalalalalalalalalala, shut up.
mix2much Posted December 8, 2002 Posted December 8, 2002 I can totally relate to this dilemma. My thoughts are this: If it's part of who you are then swear away. I mean, what would Appetite for Destruction have sounded like if Axl Rose stopped to ponder if he should swear? I personally, am turned off by swearing just for the heck of it but you could tell Axl was pissed and had issues...so it worked. I guess what i'm saying is, if you're gonna swear, be believeable. Does that makes sense? Glenn Halldorson Premiere Radio Networks
Botch. Posted December 9, 2002 Posted December 9, 2002 I much prefer the double-entendres, the clever wordplay, that dance around a subject rather than smack you over the head with profanity. Great examples abound in "Die Another Day" (just saw it this weekend). How cool would James Bond be saying "Nice ass" instead of "great view" the first time he meets Jinx? And I lost it when she looks him over and says, "Ornithologist? That's quite a mouthful"! :D Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net
AlanThomas Posted December 9, 2002 Posted December 9, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by LiveMusic: [b]"And there's only one or two I've ever screwed"[/b][/quote]First of all, I haven't even heard the song and I already like it! That line, in and of itself, isn't profanity. It's a euphemism. And without knowing the rest of the lyric, I can't tell for what. It could just as easily refer to swindling someone as it could to having sex with someone. Most of the time, I much prefer euphemism, innuendo, insinuation, and the like over blatant use of George Carlin's "7 words". On the other hand, sometimes it works. "Precious" by The Pretenders for instance; [i]"...not me baby I'm too precious. Fuck off."[/i] I think it worked in that song because of the dialogical nature of the lyric. And what gangsta-rap would even be credible without at least a couple instances of "mother-fucker"? I was listening to "Christmas Time In The LBC" by Snoop Dogg this weekend (which to me is a [i]comedy[/i] piece) & it just wouldn't have any impact at all without the profanity... Signatures can appear at the bottom of your posts. This option may be disabled by the message board administrators at any time, however. You may use UBB Code in your signature, but not HTML. UBB Code Images are permitted.
Kris Posted December 9, 2002 Posted December 9, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by patrick_dont_fret: [b]Word. Bands such as Phish and the Grateful Dead use hardly any harsh words in their music, yet catch huge audiences. [/b][/quote]There was a song that the Grateful Dead played where Jerry Garcia said "Fuck"... It always got a HUGE response from the crowd... Kris My Band: http://www.fullblackout.com UPDATED!!! Fairly regularly these days... http://www.logcabinmusic.com updated 11/9/04
GZsound Posted December 9, 2002 Posted December 9, 2002 Profanity is the last refuge of the ignorant.. Mark G. "A man may fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame others" -- John Burroughs "I consider ethics, as well as religion, as supplements to law in the government of man." -- Thomas Jefferson
LiveMusic Posted December 9, 2002 Author Posted December 9, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by AlanThomas: [b] [quote]Originally posted by LiveMusic: [b]"And there's only one or two I've ever screwed"[/b][/quote]First of all, I haven't even heard the song and I already like it! That line, in and of itself, isn't profanity. It's a euphemism. And without knowing the rest of the lyric, I can't tell for what. It could just as easily refer to swindling someone as it could to having sex with someone...[/b][/quote]I don't know that it's actually a euphemism as much as it is something with a double meaning, as you mentioned. When I wrote that line, it was exactly with the intent of producing the double meaning... swindling or having sex (mostly, adultery). Note, below, in its context within the lyric. I also use the word "prude" and "prick" in the last verse. "Screw" and "prick" are "moderate" words. Words that would make my mom squirm but your average person finds it totally unoffensive and "clever." Here's the song (blues progression): [quote]"Only One Or Two I've Ever Screwed" - Duke Will Copyright 2002 geetar.com All rights reserved. Unauthorized use prohibited. No graduation invitation Why the inconsideration It saved me some but still I think it'as rude I heard I clean up nice But I'm needin' some advice Should I brush it off and just up my attitude I often wonder what's the deal Have I simply lost appeal Do they think I'm just some wild and crazy dude It's always a surprise Just hate it when I realize I might be forced to get all untattoo'd CHORUS: The party here, the wedding there Don't know why I even care But I guess I do Yeah, there's some in this old town Who leave me out, it gets me down And there's only one or two I've ever screwed [BREAK] Yeah, Mrs. Johnson, that ol' bat No wonder Jim's a brat Don't care 'bout her or none of her brood I've tried to be nice, tried to be kind Treat 'em alright most of the time But I think I made her column marked exclude The worst snub was my neighbor So big, they hired extra labor Thought 'bout stealin' leftover food Yeah, I'm not part of their click But she's a prude and he's a prick So, that's okay with me, I conclude >>> CHORUS REPEAT <<<[/quote] > > > [ Live! ] < < <
Wrave Posted December 9, 2002 Posted December 9, 2002 I'm thinking about the Lee Hazlewood/Nancy Sinatra tune "These Boots are Made for Walkin'". She spends the entire song telling the guy she is singing to to go fuck himself and never uses a four letter word. She also tell him to kiss her ass and that she's gonna kick his. This was a big hit in it's day. I bought a couple of Tool CDs because I was told how good they were but never listened to one of them all the way through. Maybe they are good and it wasn't just the language (I couldn't stand the maxed dynamics of the production either) but their lyrics sound like they are written by a cretin that's never had any more education than you can pick up on the street corner. What difference does it make? None to me. I can and do choose to avoid this kind of trash. I'm not a prude and I was in the Navy so yes, I CAN and do cuss like a sailor sometimes. But every time I hear a school age kid talking about "motherfucker" this and "cocksucker" that, I cannot help but wondering, where is the source for that kind of language? I have heard young parents use that language indescriminately around little kids, even directing that exact kind of language at the kids and I want to go grab 'em and tell them that it's their ignorant, selfish, uncaring, uncouth examples that are causing the decline in respect and civility in this world. But somewhere I once read that dirty words only serve to demonstrate a lack of vocabulary with the accompanying implication of a lack of intelligence as well. I guess I buy that. Every generation wants to change the world. Mine had a foolish idealism that was diluted by time and experience until it washed away. Our ideals included an open and honest attitude regarding sex. We knew that our parents hadn't told us all of the truth about this one subject. They said it was dirty and made us feel shamful when we had naturally occuring sexual interests. I could give other examples about how their panicked responses to my generation's experimentation created backlashes. How their (parents and government) dishonest diatribes against drugs made us all the more interested. How their credo that "might makes right" and that "working and saving for the future" led us into insights about the condition of this world's future that made it aparent to us that continuing to deplete the resources of the world without regard to the consequences of that was much like the proverbial ostrich with his head in the sand. Neither we nor our parents were "right". The truth was somewhere between the truth they saw as the result of experience and the truth we saw which was the fruit of idealism. These most recent generations seem to resent our failures to bring about that change. And instead of giving it their best shot, they have given up and now seem to mostly want to contribute to the new paganism and revert to tribal attitudes of self protection, violence and retribution against anything that might smell the least bit of civilization. The truth lies somewhere in between. Fact is, that stuff wouldn't be made if it didn't sell. It doesn't sell to me. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ME: "Nobody knows the troubles I've seen!" Unknown Voice: "The Shadow do!"
Anifa Posted December 12, 2002 Posted December 12, 2002 LiveMusic.... DUDE... what's up with the ___ude You're killing me with too much repetition of the rhyme, I couldn't get past the monotinous never ending ood, ude, ewed, to even intake the content of what was being said. Anyway... aside from that; back to your original statement I have to agree with this comment below [quote] Most of the time, I much prefer euphemism, innuendo, insinuation, and the like over blatant use of George Carlin's "7 words". [/quote]I find that working around words while getting the point across in a fluent and yet classy manner demonstrates expertise in writing skills. Anyone can write lyrics, but it takes an experienced talent to write quality lyrics. I will, on occasion, use the word hell... but that is about the extent of it. I've written the word damn inside of songs in their initial stages, but for the most part, I think I usually find alternative words once I begin fine tuning the lyrics for a final copy. I have a song called the Flasher that does NOT have any bad words in it... but the mere suggestion of looking in a certain location, WITHOUT saying, made my Step Mother blush and she found it to be cute, but potentially offensive to a religious audience. Where you must decide to draw the line is in showing a respect to those you care about. If you KNOW that something would hurt them and perhaps cause them mounds of humiliation and embarrassment in the event you DID make it big; you might want to steer clear of setting a precedence for yourself. If you want for your family members to SHARE your pride in accomplishments, then present them quality materials to showcase to their friends... otherwise, you may find that public humiliation in being associated with the RUDE, CRUDE, Raunchy, disrespectful guy that hit the local radio stations could cause a chill factor in mutual family respect. Would you want your loved ones to be faced with the embarrassment in being confronted by those people who know you to be of their blood that would have negative comments and ridicule to interject? If this is not something that you worry about, then... do what you want.... just don't expect your folks to be happy for you if you make it against the grain. You can take the man away from his music, but you can't take the music out of the man. Books by Craig Anderton through Amazon Sweetwater: Bruce Swedien\'s "Make Mine Music"
T. Ehl Posted December 12, 2002 Posted December 12, 2002 look up the lyrics to soundgarden big dumb sex if you have to think twice about it then you probably should not be saying it in a song
The Bear Jew Posted December 12, 2002 Posted December 12, 2002 Um... OK. My point of view (it's very simple): Say whatever you want. If I don't like it, I won't listen. I'll say whatever I want. If you don't like it, don't listen. If we agree on language, great. We'll hang and listen to the same music, talk, etc. If we don't agree... well... then we don't agree. No biggie. We can still hang... we'll just get on each other's nerves a little. Personally, I like the f-word. I like ALL the "bad" words. I think they're great. I like 'em in songs. I like saying them. I like singing them. I like screaming them. But that's just me. Kiss, kiss. \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu
LiveMusic Posted December 14, 2002 Author Posted December 14, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Anifa: [b]LiveMusic.... DUDE... what's up with the ___ude You're killing me with too much repetition of the rhyme, I couldn't get past the monotinous never ending ood, ude, ewed, to even intake the content of what was being said...[/b][/quote]Fine. I don't know if I'll keep that rhyme pattern or not but other people who've heard this song love it. And I've had people COMPLIMENT the clever use of the OOD rhyme. Has that EVER been done before? Probably. I dunno. If I eventually find out it's as bad as you say, I'll change it. > > > [ Live! ] < < <
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