passionmax Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I know I asked simlar questions in the passt post but you guys turned me on to new synths. I want analog. I need tight bass sounds with a lot of depth. very dimesional sounds. I am interested in the Sunsyn, Moog voyage, Andromeda ot Studio Electronics SE-1X. Which one would be best for me. I can't afford more than one. I write Electronica (ex CrystalMethod) and I do a lot of transe like (ex. Cosmic Gate, DJ Sammy etc.) I heard that the andromeda low end is not very tight but that might be just some peoples opinions. Thansk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Originally posted by passionmax: I heard that the andromeda low end is not very tight What do you mean by tight? If you mean the envelopes aren't snappy, you can choose that option in software just like you can choose whether or not you want the oscillators to drift. I'm telling you, Max - you need to find a way to listen to as many of these yourself as possible. Nothing else is going to tell you which of these best suits your taste and your music. Where are you located that you are unable to try any of these out for yourself? dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Well Dave is looking very 'Tight' lately...just felt like saying that...no I'm not gay, anymore. hahahahaaaa confused? er, it's kind of an Austin Powers-Goldmember ref....ok, it's not that funny http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Haven't heard the SunSyn. Of the other three, hands down the tightest bass would come from the Voyager. The loosest from the SE-1X. However, the SE-1X is very popular with R&B guys. partly because they don't mind non-snappy bass, and partly because they don't know any better (the SE-1X was the only game in town for quite some time.) If all you want is bass, the original Minmoog is still the beast to own. I don't find the Voyager as tough or aggressive. I can't put my finger on exactly why, but there is definitly something missing. The Andromeda is a cool synth, but I'd say its forte is pads and leads, not ballsy bass (sorry, Dave, just my opinion.) The Omega is also a good bet, though expensive. it has much tighter envelopes than the SE-1x, and is probably the best all-around analog synth ever made, IMO. (though the Mini still wins for bass.) Another rare contender: The Oscar, but good luck finding one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortenJ Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Andromeda with MOOG TAURUS Morten Access Virus TI keyboard,Alesis ION,Yamaha Motif ES 6,Roland Fantom XR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passionmax Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 What about the other studio electronic synth. I think it is th ASC-X. Fatboy slim uses it. I hear the demo on the website. some of the sounds were really aggressive which I like. But i am also looking for good bass sounds for transe. most transe records or hard techno have those upbeat 8th note bass sounds that are in your face tuff or just full. If you know the Studio Electronics ATC-X. let me know. Also the Evolver sounds great on Dave smiths website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pim Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Why don't you just go to a shop and listen? My Music I always wondered what happened after the fade out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogaddict Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Hey Passionmax! I asked myself the same question 6 months ago, as I thought I was going to make some extra money. Unfortunately, I didn´t at the time, but since I´ll get there sooner or later I decided to do some research on the subject just to feed my GAS. My conclusion was to buy a second hand Andromeda and sometime in the future a ditto SE-1x. This because I think they complement eachother really well, but it may very well change since I got my DSI Evolver... I ruled the SunSyn from my list since it has a (IMESHO) somewhat harsher sound than what I´m looking for. At first, I doubted the Andromeda (prejudice, I know!), and in my research process I also managed to step on some toes (Hey Pim!)... Some of the categories that I felt were relevant to me are (not nescessarily in this order) 1. Availability. This is a good thing for the future in terms of parts and experienced users. The Andy wins easily here. 2. Interface - Andy. I love ribbons! 3. Portability - Omega8 and SE-1, no doubt about it. 4. "Boutique" factor - Omega8. 5. "Buck-per-oscillator-and-filter"-factor - Andy. 6. Pure sound - for me, it´s a tie between Andy and Omega. They both have their strenghts and their weak sides, and if I could choose, I´d have one of each. The Andy felt more direct to me though, or maybe I just didn´t spend enough time with the Omega. 7. Use; I play live as well as in the studio, and I don´t want to have to haul a big synth around unnescessarily, but since I have a Nord Lead 3, I don´t worry too much about that. This is the same reason why I have a Rhodes and a Nord Electro; if you don´t have to choose, why force yourself? ;-) But then again, like others have said, let your ears be the judge; try as many synths out as possible, and - if you plan on using it solely in the studio - why not take a look at vintage synths? for this kind of money, you could afford a Matrix-12 or a Prophet-5, perhaps an OB-Xa and maybe even a Mini! /Jonas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Passionmax, you keep comparing poyphonic and monophonic synths. A mono synth will only give you leads, basses, arpeggios and FX. If you want analog pads, strings, clavs, EPs, etc., the Andy or the Omega are the only game in town, other than some older, used synth. I can assure you that even in the polyphonic sounds, you're going to hear the difference beetween a real analog and a VA or softsynth. I have a Matrix-12, and use it in every one of my productions. Personally, if going the vintage route, I would avoid low-end synths, like Junos or Matrix-6s for example... but that's just me. Carlo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by Allan Speers: The Andromeda is a cool synth, but I'd say its forte is pads and leads, not ballsy bass (sorry, Dave, just my opinion.)No problem at all, Allan. How boring would it be if everyone liked the same thing? Besides, I already know from your posts about studio monitors that you and I have different tastes. BTW, my front line synth for bass sounds is the Mini, not Andy... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by Pim: Why don't you just go to a shop and listen?This is impossible if you don't live in a major city. Even then you are lucky to find a single analog in a store. I saw an Andy about a year ago in a shop that never could sell it. They had to ship it to another dealer and I have not seen another analog since. Sometimes about the best you can do is come here and ask people who are lucky enough to play them. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passionmax Posted August 18, 2003 Author Share Posted August 18, 2003 actually I don't cfare if it mono or poly i just want the best bottom end so I can track bass sounds that are extremly round and have depth. The minimoog is great but expensive. you can get the evolver or the Studio electronics ATC-X a lot cheaper. A second hand SE-1x is pretty cheap these days. I know the Minimoog voyager is probably the best but I am not looking for the specific moog sound. I just want a fuller more dimensional bottom end in my bass sounds or kciks or any low end sounds. My VA synths like waves XT or waldorf are great but when yolu hear analog there is a much different character to the low end becuase it is real analog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by passionmax: actually I don't cfare if it mono or poly i just want the best bottom end so I can track bass sounds that are extremly round and have depth. The minimoog is great but expensive. Andy ain't cheap, either. You might even be able to get a real Mini for less than Andy or a Voyager. For me, I use Andy for bass when I want it huge - you can put Andy into Unison X mode where all 16 voices (32 oscillators) are stacked on one note, and the use the unison detune function to spread 'em out - then, run the whole mess through the Moog-style filter. For extra kick, I add the sub-oscillators. I have yet to hear any synth get a fatter sound. YMMV, of course... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passionmax Posted August 18, 2003 Author Share Posted August 18, 2003 I have heard that the low end is kind of flubby. It is not as punchy as the minimooogs. is this true. i listend to the mp3 of the Andy. it was cool and beefy but it seemed the low end was missing some of the warmth you hear in old analog synths. it might be the mp3 but if you listen to the mp3 on Dave Smith Evolver site. the low end is very clear and present. The andromeda low end on the mp3 sounded very basses to compensate for that analog tone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Passionmax: I echo those who say you got to play them first hand. But if you are like me, you know that you want somebody else's opinion just because you are (maybe) not as confident that you can march up to a machine and program all the sounds immediately. I understand. For further reading on the so-called Andy "flubby bass" issue ... go here: http://www.midiwall.com/ 1) Click on the Andromeda link and search on words like bass, tight, snappy, etc. 2) Click on the Analog Heaven link and search on "Andromeda". Also look for posts by Colin. These are communities that documented the discussion of Andromeda's abilities in bass. Essentially, the envelopes were too slow at first, Alesis releasd a faster envelope capability. There are still some issues you got to watch for but (at least according to Colin, who started out doubting Andy's abilities at bass) most bass sounds are doable on Andromeda. With some tweaking and care. And there are a few bass sounds that are uniquely natural to Andromeda. But it depends on your taste in bass. Colin in particular, distinguishes between a wet roland bass sound and beefier Mini sound. He prefers the tighter, wetter, simpler Roland sound. A lot of Colin's frustration came from not being able to get a particular Roland (SH2) type of sound on Andromeda. I'm not a big bass afficionado or expert, but if you are looking for a bass synth (only), I think you should buy a monosynth. If you are keen on a particular bass sound, you should track down the synth that did it and buy that. Androemda is a great synth, and a very versatile one. But she just cannot be all things to everyone. No synth can. Best, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realtrance Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 It's all in the use, my theme for today (this week? this month? the rest of my lifetime? stay tuned). I have a balls-y bass patch on my Andy that would put any woman in the mood the minute she heard me play it. I suspect the sound you're looking for, passionmax, is the sound you hear on popular recordings these days. That, my friend, is simply the result of a little eq and compression during the mastering -- you can do that with any synth and a good compressor and equalizer. Get a good used JP-8000 and a good efx unit (say an MPX-100) and you'll be fine. (just one of many equivalent simple combinations -- an MS2000B or AN1X or MicroQ would all be just as fine). Then when you've spent a few years really learning what goes into making various kinds of electronic sounds, you'll be ready to spend thousands of dollars wisely on just a few more things. Or, you can go the route of many and waste more money than you would on leasing new cars every three years trading your synths around every few months. E-Bay and Sam Ash will be your friends here. Your choice. rt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by passionmax: actually I don't cfare if it mono or poly i just want the best bottom end so I can track bass sounds that are extremly round and have depth. OK, this is a very clear statement. Then I would advice a MIDIed MiniMoog (you don't want one without MIDI), a Voyager, or an SE-1x. Roughly speaking, they have a similar basic sound. The ATC (all models) lacks the third oscillator, so it's not so beefy as the others. The original Mini has an advantage over the Voyager or SE-1; its envelopes are very fast (analog-fast!). Then again, depnding on how the MIDI was added to instrument, it could have some slowness in response. The Waldorf Pulse is also wonderful for bass. Not in production anymore I believe, but it's got a very good sounding filter. It has three oscillators, but they are digitally clocked, so the sound is a bit colder and more "straight". But for bass, this can work well; it could even be an advantage. It's only when you try to program expressive leads that the oscillators show a bit of sterility - that's why I didn't buy one. I refrain to say anything about Andromeda and Evolver, but as Dave said, with 32 analog oscillators and all those modulation routings, it's difficult to go wrong! I for sure stack the oscs of my Matrix-12 to get that beef. On the other hand, the Rhodes Chroma, which I've had for many years, was capable of huge stacked sounds, but it was just horrible at doing tight basses. So I guess you should try to play the Andy, and judge for yourself. But if you decide to get the Mini, Voyager or SE-1, or even a Pulse, you'll have a sure winner in my opinion. Carlo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 One advantage of the ATC (and the Omega) is that it accepts the filter modules giving you recreations of the Moog, Oberheim, TB303 and ARP 2600 filters. Collectively these must make up 80-90% of the bass synths used on popular recordings. Everyone has chased the Moog filter, but the ARP can create huge basses, though not as smooth as the Moog. I've got one ARP filter in my Omega8. I passed on the 303. rt is right about not getting TO hung up on one synth vs. another. EQ, compression, ambience can make all the difference in the world. I remember one Kurzweil synth bass that I really liked. When I took a look at it, it was the compressor that created the snap. Without that, it was nothing special. So I don't know, buy Trilogy and call it a day. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 "Toight! Yes! He's very toight!" - Goldmember The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by passionmax: I know I asked simlar questions in the passt post but you guys turned me on to new synths. I want analog. I need tight bass sounds with a lot of depth. very dimesional sounds. I am interested in the Sunsyn, Moog voyage, Andromeda ot Studio Electronics SE-1X. Which one would be best for me. I can't afford more than one. I write Electronica (ex CrystalMethod) and I do a lot of transe like (ex. Cosmic Gate, DJ Sammy etc.) I heard that the andromeda low end is not very tight but that might be just some peoples opinions. ThanskI'm not sure what synths you have NOW, but I'd be willing to bet that you can get the sound that you desire by using effects correctly, especially compression, EQ, distortion, and perhaps a little reverb. I'm sure that the records that you've mentioned have LOTS of effects on the synth bass tracks. Try to listen to what's going on and learn how to reproduce that sound instead of chasing for the pot of gold at the end of the synthesizer rainbow. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passionmax Posted August 18, 2003 Author Share Posted August 18, 2003 Hey burningbusch by the way how is trilogy. I have atmophsre and it sounds great. Do you own it or havbe used it. how does it sound. I am not saying this the replace ment for the rest of the keys but it is cheap enought to make a great addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pim Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by Rabid: Originally posted by Pim: Why don't you just go to a shop and listen?This is impossible if you don't live in a major city. ... RobertTake your car, drive for two days to a major city, play some analogues, sleep in your car - man, that's rock 'n roll! My Music I always wondered what happened after the fade out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 For further reading on the so-called Andy "flubby bass" issue ... go here: http://www.midiwall.com/ Thanks Jerry - just listening in and went to this site. Totally cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthdogg Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by passionmax: Hey burningbusch by the way how is trilogy. I have atmophsre and it sounds great. Do you own it or havbe used it. how does it sound. I am not saying this the replace ment for the rest of the keys but it is cheap enought to make a great additionIf bass is what you're looking for, absolutely check out Trilogy. The sound may really shock you. It won't be as versatile as an analog synth in some ways, but in other ways (being able to mimic more than one oscillator/filter combo type) it's more versatile. I've talked to a number of session players in town who have recently picked up Trilogy. Let's just say that a good number of SE-1's have recently been put up on e-bay. It's not the end-all answer, but it's a great sounding, inexpensive solution that will have you making music NOW, and still leaving enough money in the bank for other options to fill in other sounds. Just another opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realtrance Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 I'm not surprised to read that Trilogy is so good. Spectrasonics is light-years ahead of most sound designers out there. I don't know how they do it! Oh. Talent. rt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 I would seriously consider the Virus KC if you haven't done so already. An absolutely smoking machine. After spending some time with a Virus you will never listen to a real analog synth the same way again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoplura Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by The Jeeebus: After spending some time with a Virus you will never listen to a real analog synth the same way again.I think you've got that backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by Anoplura: Originally posted by The Jeeebus: After spending some time with a Virus you will never listen to a real analog synth the same way again.I think you've got that backwards. I only wish I did. But sadly, I've got it forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pim Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by The Jeeebus: After spending some time with a Virus you will never listen to a real analog synth the same way again.You sooo are right! Virus made me appreciate them even more... My Music I always wondered what happened after the fade out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by Pim: Originally posted by The Jeeebus: After spending some time with a Virus you will never listen to a real analog synth the same way again.You sooo are right! Virus made me appreciate them even more...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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