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What gives a sound "punch?"


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I finally got Battery, and I was just reading the [url=http://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.php?id=batteryseminar_us]online tutorial.[/url] It had a great section on "punch" that you might find interesting. [i]We all know a punchy recorded sound when we hear it - but what exactly constitutes "punch"? I became interested in finding out when seemingly every musician agreed that the Minimoog has a punchy sound. Then, when I started playing a Peavey DPM3, several people commented that my bass patches had a punchy sound, "like a Minimoog." Clearly, the technologies were totally different. Yet to listeners, they both shared some common factor that was perceived as punchiness. Looking at the Minimoog's amplitude envelope [/i]----v[i] [img]http://www.nativeinstruments.de/uploads/pics/battery_punchfactor.gif[/img] reveals that even with the sustain set to minimum, there's about 20-30 milliseconds where the sound stays at maximum level before the decay begins. There is no way to eliminate this short period of full volume sustain; it's part of the Minimoog's characteristic sound. It's also what happens to percussive sounds when you clip, limit, or compress them. Interestingly, a DPM3 envelope exhibits the same kind of attack characteristic - a 20-30 ms period of sustain, at maximum level, before the decay kicks in. Also, both instruments have virtually instantaneous attacks. Could this combination be the secret of punch? For comparison, consider the Oberheim OB-8, which is generally characterized as "warm" and/or "fat" but not punchy, or a Yamaha TG55. Both have fixed attack times that last a few milliseconds, even with the attack control set to zero, and no short, maximum level sustain. So it seems [b][/i]the secret of punch[/b][i] is an [b][/i]extremely fast attack[i][/b] time coupled with [b][/i]a bit of sustain time at maximum level[/b][i]. This sustain isn't long enough to be heard as sustain per se; it's more of a psychoacoustic effect. [/i] Great stuff :wave:
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Punch is lo-mid.

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So, I wonder... If you had an audio file of a snare in a DAW, and you chopped off the weak part of the attack from the beginning, and maximized the first 30 miliseconds before the decay starts, could you synthesize "punch"? I'm going to try that tonight. Thanks, Brakka. Interesting stuff, indeed.
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[quote]Originally posted by dbunster: [b]So, I wonder... If you had an audio file of a snare in a DAW, and you chopped off the weak part of the attack from the beginning, and maximized the first 30 miliseconds before the decay starts, could you synthesize "punch"? I'm going to try that tonight. Thanks, Brakka. Interesting stuff, indeed.[/b][/quote]Yeah, if you cut it off right after the zero crossing, you can get more punch, or snap.

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mmmm, well i dont see how a traditional compresor could reduce attack. a DIGITAL compressor can, by sidechaing itself into a delay line (this is how the L1 and L2 work). you could in theory use this sidechain/delay line to compress the attack in an analog setup, but it would be difficult. yer gonna get some attack no matter what in an analog setup. even if ya set yer attack to nothin, it still takes the detection curcuit a few MS to figure out it should be compressing.
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[quote]Originally posted by GT3: [b]Yeah, if you cut it off right after the zero crossing, you can get more punch, or snap.[/b][/quote]You mean, split the audio when the wave is NOT at zero? That would cause your file to "click" or "pop" at the beginning. I've heard of this before. I think Brian Transeau (BT) uses that technique. Is that what you're talking about, GT?
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[quote]Originally posted by dbunster: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Duhduh: [b]Punch is lo-mid.[/b][/quote]That's a rather simplistic response. We're not talking about EQ here.[/b][/quote]Yeah, I know. I was being sarcastic. In the car audio world a lot of low-midrange is referred to as 'punch'.

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I'll stick with the zero crossings. :) Oh- I wasn't very clear before, but I should note that [b]the above excerpt (and the entire tutorial) were written by our Uncle Craig.[/b] Not sure if that's his voice narrating the video tutorial, though.
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[quote]Originally posted by dbunster: [b] [quote]Originally posted by GT3: [b]Yeah, if you cut it off right after the zero crossing, you can get more punch, or snap.[/b][/quote]You mean, split the audio when the wave is NOT at zero? That would cause your file to "click" or "pop" at the beginning. I've heard of this before. I think Brian Transeau (BT) uses that technique. Is that what you're talking about, GT?[/b][/quote]BT has some cool shit!
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