Ultimate Drum module. Roland, Yamaha, other?

[RABid]

Which would you consider the better HARDWARE drum and percussion module?

 

Option 1 - Roland XV-5050 with the SRX-01 Drum ROM and the SRX-09 World Collection.

 

Option 2 - Yamaha Motif Rack with the PLG150-DR Drums and PLG150-PC Latin Groove Factory expansions.

 

Option 3 - Emu PX-7 command station with the Beat Garden and World Expedition ROM's?

 

Option 4 - ??????

 

Robert

 

Edit - Wanted to make a disclaimer that I am not considering software in this question.

[Dave Bryce]

As far as I'm concerned, the ultimate drum module is the Alesis DM Pro. Over 1700 onboard instruments, 64 voices, full synth editing, 24 bit multi-effects...and, the thing just sounds unbelievable.

 

Synth modules do not sound as good on drum sounds as dedicated drum modules - they handle audio differently. It's basically akin to the difference between a sprinter and a long-distance runner. Synth modules need to do sustained tones, where dedicated drum modules are all about the immediate punch. I have heard identical samples on the DM Pro and QSR - the DM Pro is much more kickin'...

 

Now, whether or not you can find one is a whole different story.

 

dB

[RABid]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

... Now, whether or not you can find one is a whole different story.

 

dB

That is a good point, and acutally, I have seen the DM-Pro listed recently at some of the online stores. I think my favorite walk-in store may still have one in stock. Does it have a good range of percussion sounds? I may need to find the old Keyboard Mag review if I can remember what year to start looking.

 

Robert

[steadyb]

I like my (two) DMPro very much.

[zeronyne]

I've had one for a while, and I was actually going to also suggest it (along with a sampler) as an ultimate drum module rig. The sounds are punchy as hell, and everything parameter in it is geared towards getting good control over percussion timbres. This is no NanoBass (a QSR with less sounds). The DMPro is a serious piece of equipment.

 

Almost all of the online retailers have them in stock. You can get a great deal, I just saw, on a "blemished" one. Hmm...Maybe I'll pick up another one...

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Rabid:

Does it have a good range of percussion sounds?

Oh, my goodness, yes. Two full banks of 128 acoustic percussion sounds each, and another bank of 128 electronic percussion. Here\'s the sound chart.

 

Plus, each sound can be tuned up or down two octaves in quarter-tone increments, so you can get a ton of variations out of each one.

 

Get one. You'll be blown away.

 

dB

[Mark Zeger]

What are the differences between a DM Pro and a DM5?

[steadyb]

Lots.

 

Forget about the DM5.

[Botch.]

Robert, our drummer just bought a whole new synth drum outfit and spent quite a bit of time auditioning the different sound modules, he ended up with the top-of-the-line Roland unit. That being said he's also saving up for the Alesis unit to add to it, too, and he asked me what sampler would be best for his kit!!! (damn guy's got GAS worse than me!). Hope this helps.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by steadyb:

Lots.

 

Forget about the DM5.

Boy, is he right.

 

Quickly:

DM5 has 16 voices, 550 instruments (one layer per sound), 4MB of wave ROM, no effects and next to no editing. Sounds can be transposed +/- semitones. It's non-expandable.

 

DM Pro has 64 voices, over 1700 instruments (up to four layers per sound), 16MB of wave ROM, 24 bit multi-effects, and full synth-type editing. Sounds can be transposed +/- 24 semitones. It has a card slot that can play the drum samples off of appropriate QCards, or 8MB of your own samples(if you're lucky enough to be able to find the right type of card, which is pretty tough these days).

 

There are more differences, but you get the basic idea.

 

dB

[Threshold]

All,

 

You all forgot about Roland's TD-10 with the TSW-1 card installed. It has what I would consider unlimited drums sounds(1000 that are very flexiably modified through COSM modeling vs 1664 fixed in the DM Pro, or those in a DTX. Example you take a snare, & you can via COSM modeling change the depth(from say a piccoolo to parade snare), & so forth. It has more outputs than a DM Pro, or DTX. You can through COSM modeling choose the type of room environment the drum is in. There is available individual EQ, & compression on 12 of the drums sounds at one time. You can also model the type of mic., & mic placement on a maximum of 12 individual drums at one time. In certain respects the TD-10 with TSW-1 is in a whole other league as compared to other drum modules. Everybody research this, & you'll see that the TD-10 with TSW-1 board smokes everything else out there in the hardware arena. The only competition is a D Drum 4 SE brain but that does'nt have the effects the TD-10 has.

 

Threshold.

[Donnie]

As far as sound go there is NO comparison whatsoever between the Roland SR Expansion board and anything Alesis. I had the Alesis DM Pro and sold it several years back. Being a percussionist myself and being VERY picky when it comes to sound the Alesis sounds are very cheezy.

 

dc

[RABid]

I remember DB and someone else talking about how compressed the Emu drum samples sound. This past weekend I decided to A/B the new E-mu PX-7 with the Roland SRX-01 ROM installed in an XV-88. I was shocked. The PX-7 sounded like a drum on the radio. The SRX-01 sounded like a drum. I really wanted to like the Emu because I could just stick the ROM in my XL-7. To me the sound of the Emu drum was not crisp and punchy.

 

Robert

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Donnie:

As far as sound go there is NO comparison whatsoever between the Roland SR Expansion board and anything Alesis. I had the Alesis DM Pro and sold it several years back. Being a percussionist myself and being VERY picky when it comes to sound the Alesis sounds are very cheezy.

Can you be more specific about which SR expansion board you are talking about, and which module you auditioned it in? I assume that you're not talking about the SRX boards, since you say that you did this comparison a few years ago...

 

Both the Alesis and SR expansion boards are sample playback, and both of them use four-layer architecture. The Alesis samples are sampled at 48kHz and are linear, where the Roland sounds are sampled at 32kHz and compressed. The SR-JV boards are only 8MB, where the Alesis ROM is double that.

 

Also, perhaps you can be a bit more informative as to your opinion other than just using the word "cheezy".

 

dB

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Threshold:

Everybody research this, & you'll see that the TD-10 with TSW-1 board smokes everything else out there in the hardware arena. The only competition is a D Drum 4 SE brain but that does'nt have the effects the TD-10 has.

I'm inclined to agree that the Roland TD-10 is excellent sounding. It can do things that no sample playback unit can do.

 

dB

[Jeebus]

Novation Drumstation...a combination of wonderful thick and punchy modelled classic analog drums and sampled drums, combined with front-panel knob-based editing.

[Geoff Grace]

Originally posted by zeronyne:

I've had one for a while, and I was actually going to also suggest it (along with a sampler) as an ultimate drum module rig.

My DM Pro, coupled with samplers loaded with my drum sample library, provides a great one-two punch. I usually start with the DM Pro for sequencing and replace pieces of its "kit" with other samples during tracking. However, I often track at least a few sounds from the DM Pro kit I started with. I have yet to hear a ROMpler I prefer to the DM Pro.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Threshold]

Geoff Grace,

 

Have you listened to the TD-10 with TSW-1 board, or D Drum4SE. If you hav'nt you're missing a treat. The top session/touring players are using the Roland, &/or D Drum modules. I doubt that players like Omar Hakim, & Kenny Aronoff are far off the mark. They are two of the most requested session/touring drummers on the planet, & I think they know drums way better than we keyboard players. They use the Roland, &/or D Drum product in that respective order, & otherwise.

 

Threshold.

[RABid]

I have a TD-8 that I bought along with a PD-120 12" V-drum pad to merge with my SP-11 kit. While it is great for practice in an apartment I wish the TD-8 had better tom sounds. I would love to have bought the TD-10 with the expansion card but at the time could not afford it. That combo is double the price of the TD-8. As it is I usually farm out parts to Battery. I really wish I could find a good software system that could read the MIDI information from the Roland hi-hat channel and reproduce the sound at a higher quality.

 

I may experiment with routing the tom's to a ROMpler or a second drum module. When trying it before I ran into a problem with the way the ROMpler triggered notes. Some of the drums were randomly muted when I played. I traced the problem to ghost notes. The ROMpler worked on a system that would retrigger the same voice when hitting the same key. This causes ghost notes to mute the preceding note. A problem when the pads are set to be sensitive enough for light rolls. The drum unit does not have this problem so I assume it works on a system that triggers a new voice with each hit.

 

Robert

[Donnie]

The problem that I have with the DM is strickly with the quality and realism of the sounds. For example, if you play a midi file back through the DM and then back through the Roland SRX there is no comparison as far as realism.

 

dc

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Donnie:

The problem that I have with the DM is strickly with the quality and realism of the sounds. For example, if you play a midi file back through the DM and then back through the Roland SRX there is no comparison as far as realism.

You said that you got rid of the DM Pro "several years back". The SRX boards didn't exist until recently. How did you compare the two?

 

Also, which SRX board, through which Roland synth?

 

BTW - the word is "strictly".

 

dB

[Geoff Grace]

Originally posted by Threshold:

Geoff Grace,

 

Have you listened to the TD-10 with TSW-1 board, or D Drum4SE. If you hav'nt you're missing a treat. The top session/touring players are using the Roland, &/or D Drum modules. I doubt that players like Omar Hakim, & Kenny Aronoff are far off the mark. They are two of the most requested session/touring drummers on the planet, & I think they know drums way better than we keyboard players. They use the Roland, &/or D Drum product in that respective order, & otherwise.

Threshold, I heard at least the TD8 (I'm not sure about the TD-10 ) awhile back and I liked some things about it. I've heard D Drum products before, but I can't recall if I've heard the 4SE. I'll have to give the models you mentioned a listen (again?). However, while I agree that drummers are much more likely to know drums better than keyboard players do, I'm not so sure that drummers are generally better qualified to judge synths and samplers, even if they are drum synths and samplers.

 

Speaking as a keyboard player who is a former drummer, I believe that the controller (such as Roland's V-Drums) would be at least as important factor to a drummer as the sounds triggered by the controller. Because both Roland and D Drum modules are coupled with very good controllers, drummers might favor them over modules that weren't coupled with, and maximized for, great controllers.

 

If this is true, then Omar Hakim and Kenny Aronoff's personal preferences might be more valuable for drummers than they would be for keyboard players. A keyboard player triggering the same Roland and D Drum products via keyboards might achieve far less satisfying results. Then again, maybe not. I don't have experience triggering these modules both ways, nor do I have experience triggering the DM Pro with V-Drums, so I'm speculating. Even so, my experience tells me that taste in both controllers and sounds is always a factor, regardless of chops.

 

In other words, I thank you for sharing this information; and if you're implying that products favored by these talented drummers are worthy of auditioning when choosing a drum module, then I agree. On the other hand, if you're implying that products favored by them should be purchased based solely on their drumming expertise because we keyboard players aren't worthy, then I must respectfully disagree.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Threshold:

The top session/touring players are using the Roland, &/or D Drum modules. I doubt that players like Omar Hakim, & Kenny Aronoff are far off the mark. They are two of the most requested session/touring drummers on the planet, & I think they know drums way better than we keyboard players. They use the Roland, &/or D Drum product in that respective order, & otherwise.

Other top drummers and percussionists, such as Curt Bisquera, John Mahon, Pat Mastoletto and Doane Perry use the DM Pro.

 

Both the DM Pro and the TD brains are fine modules, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

dB

[Donnie]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

Originally posted by Donnie:

The problem that I have with the DM is strickly with the quality and realism of the sounds. For example, if you play a midi file back through the DM and then back through the Roland SRX there is no comparison as far as realism.

You said that you got rid of the DM Pro "several years back". The SRX boards didn't exist until recently. How did you compare the two?

 

Also, which SRX board, through which Roland synth?

 

BTW - the word is "strictly".

 

dB

Boy that was fast I feel like your trying to "catch" me in something here. As a sample developer of percussion instruments and being a career percussionist myself I make it my business to know every percussion library and synth on the market. When Sean and I go to make a new library we reseach out everything from soundfonts to top of the line sample libraries. We have tested and heard just about everything percussion that there is and that (along with my knowledge of percussion) is what makes me confident about making judgments on pieces of gear or libraries.

 

dc

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Donnie:

As a sample developer of percussion instruments and being a career percussionist myself I make it my business to know every percussion library and synth on the market. When Sean and I go to make a new library we reseach out everything from soundfonts to top of the line sample libraries. We have tested and heard just about everything percussion that there is and that (along with my knowledge of percussion) is what makes me confident about making judgments on pieces of gear or libraries.

You avoided my questions.

 

You said that the same MIDI file played through a DM Pro and a Roland SRX board yielded "no comparison as far as realism", even though you also clearly stated that you got rid of your DM Pro "several years ago". I'm understandably curious as to how you managed to do that.

 

I also wouldn't mind knowing which SRX board you're talking about, and which synth you used to audition it.

 

dB

[Geoff Grace]

By the way, speaking of drums, Dave and Donnie, I think that Ross Garfield did some very good work, first for Alesis and then for Big Fish Audio. I feel that both sets of products were among the best of their time. Any common ground here?

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Donnie]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

Originally posted by Donnie:

As a sample developer of percussion instruments and being a career percussionist myself I make it my business to know every percussion library and synth on the market. When Sean and I go to make a new library we reseach out everything from soundfonts to top of the line sample libraries. We have tested and heard just about everything percussion that there is and that (along with my knowledge of percussion) is what makes me confident about making judgments on pieces of gear or libraries.

You avoided my questions.

 

You said that the same MIDI file played through a DM Pro and a Roland SRX board yielded "no comparison as far as realism", even though you also clearly stated that you got rid of your DM Pro "several years ago". I'm understandably curious as to how you managed to do that.

 

I also wouldn't mind knowing which SRX board you're talking about, and which synth you used to audition it.

 

dB

Dave,

 

Are you taking this personal or something??? First I said that the same midi file (for other people wanting to try) would yield that result as I have heard both extensively. The SRX board I am talking about is the SRX 1 and it was in a XV5050.

 

dc

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Donnie:

The SRX board I am talking about is the SRX 1 and it was in a XV5050.

Okay. Thanks for answering.

 

So, I'm guessing that you had the DM Pro 'til much more recently, since the XV5050 is pretty new as well...less than a year old, IIRC...

 

IMO the DM Pro sounds a lot more natural than the Dynamic Drums expansion board, which sounded a bit thin to me when I heard them in the Fantom. To each his own.

 

Also, as I mentioned earlier, it has been my experience that dedicated drum modules do drum sounds better than the majority of synth modules.

 

dB

[Veracohr]

Hope you don't mind if I just throw this in here...

 

How do these modules you're talking about (for instance the DM Pro, Dave Bryce) do for electronic drums? Do they do 808/909 and other electronic drum sounds well? Or are they more focused on acoustic drum sounds?

 

In years past I've eyed the DM5 and DM Pro with an interested yet wary eye because I have not seen one in person to know what it sounds like, yet I'm curious as to what it sounds like.

 

In fact, to make my question a little less confusing: Dave Bryce, does the DM Pro have good electronic drum sounds and good acoustic drum sounds? Because I'm looking for both.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Veracohr:

In fact, to make my question a little less confusing: Dave Bryce, does the DM Pro have good electronic drum sounds and good acoustic drum sounds? Because I'm looking for both.

I think the DM Pro has excellent electronic drum sounds.

 

The lead engineer on the project is a major electronica fiend, and he spent an extraordinary amount of time on the electronic sounds. I feel pretty safe in saying that you'd probably be quite pleased with the results of his labors.

 

The only thing that's missing (IMO) is if there were resonance filtering so you could tweak them on that level; however, Alesis provided a boatload of samples to work with, so I'd say chances are excellent that you'd be able to find more than a few sounds that you'd like.

 

dB