Digital Stage Piano for Jazz Gigs - Roland FP-3/Roland FP-5 vs Yamaha P90/P120

[alby]

Hi everybody,

 

I managed to compare Yamaha P120 to the Roland RD-170 side by side and Petros and co were correct, the Yamaha P-120 had the better action and in my opinion a better grand piano 1 sound than the Roland RD-170.

 

However, I also played on a Roland FP3 and a Roland FP5 and found that the action was comparable to the Yamaha P120, and the Grand Piano sound was better (I think). I forgot to take some headphones along so I wasn't comparing apples with apples. The Roland FP5 may have sounded better than the Yamaha P120 because of the FP5 bigger speakers.

 

I haven't seen many posts on the Rolands FP's and was wondering if any one else has any opinions on these boards - Roland FP3/FP5.

 

(Still can't get to a Yamaha P90, as Yamaha Australia haven't received any yet.)

 

Regards

Alby

[sudeep]

Hey Alby i thought i have seen p 90s around sydney...i thought i saw one at venue or allans in the city. Might pop in at lunch today and see if i was correct (any excuse to go play some keys during work hours hehehe)

[IZCool]

Why don't you try the Roland RD-700 too? It's got a better action than the RD-150 and probably better piano sounds. Allans should have one (Allans Melbourne usually have one in stock).

[petros]

I have both the Roland FP3 and the Yamaha P120.

 

I prefer playing the P120 because the way the sound and the action respond is most like playing a real piano.

 

Here is the most important difference for me:

The Roland velocity scale is too jumpy, it does not change gradually and consecutively enough, it's harder to control your dynamic touch. It seems to skip from ppp to fff without allowing all the range in between

The P120 velocity scale is very gradual and consecutive, I seem to be able to play all the velocities between 1-127 with ease and control.

 

The Roland sound is a little more artificial and metallic to my ears than the P120. I also prefer the sound and dynamics of the Rhodes (EP2) on the P120.

 

They are both around 40 lb.

I didn't think I would but I love having the speakers on the P120.

It only adds 2.7 lb. I also added a cheap little floor subwoofer (mine was $20 for a computer audio system and it makes the P120 loud) and you can play restaurants, parties and weddings. I can't tell you how great it is having stereo monitors perfectly positioned for your ears in addition to an amp on the floor, you get a "suround-sound". The onboard speakers with subwoofer are also good for mellow duets, backing singers and soft jazz. Great for practicing too, don't have to turn on or move and amp every time you want to turn on. When I want loud I use one or two of my my Mackie SRM450 powered speakers.

[petros]

Here is how to make the EP2 on the P120 sound more like real Rhodes. This will make more punchy, fatten and round the tone somehow. This is especially helpful for the thinner high range notes.

 

Change the "Touch" to Soft" (so now it's too bright)

Turn the "Brightness" slider all the way down to compensate

Use the "Delay Effect"

Leave "Reverb" as is

 

Also, using a tube power amp really helps.

A tube preamp also rounds the sound further.

[David Loving]

Maybe I just do not hear right [i have a dr., and a spouse, that say so!] but it's hard for me to tell much difference. I was in a Guitar Center yesterday on the off chance they'd have a p90 - they did not - and played a p80 and a p120 back to back. The p120 did sound a little smoother and more "pianistic"; but I thought the rhodes sounded better on the p80 - more bite. I do not play any classical or cocktail stuff on gigs, mainly rock, blues, country/Texas honky-tonk. I am probably too easy to please - lower standards and all that. I still like the piano [micropiano probably] on my Kurzweil sp76. I am trying hard to find something not to like about my p80 to justify an upgrade! It's an uphill battle so far. But I didn't answer the question - I have gotten to play a Roland rd700 [weekly session at a sound equipment/prorental store - dream jam!] quite a bit and really like it. Downside it is pricey and for me has too many features I never use. I would go with with either the p120 or p90 - probably the p90 because of the weight.

[petros]

daveloving, the P80 has a physical ROM size of 12 MB of samples, the The P120 has a physical ROM size of 32 MB. (P80 Grand Piano 1 is 4.6 MB, the P120 Grand Piano 1 is 22 MB.)

 

You are he first person I have ever heard say they prefer the Rhodes sound on the P80 over the P120. They are not similar at all. Were you listening to the P80 and the P120 through the same speakers? Have you ever heard what a real Fender Rhodes is supposed to sound like?

If you don't hear much difference between the P80 and the P120 pianos and prefer the Rhodes on the P80 I give up.

 

By the way, the weight difference between the P90 and P120 is 2.7 pounds. The extra weight is worth it to get onboard stereo monitors, IMO. It has been reported that the Rhodes is better on the P120 than the P90, I have not heard the P90 as it is not yet in the local Guitar Center store.

[supermanrulez]

In my searches for a digital piano I preferred the sound and action of both the P90 and P120 over the Roland FP3 and FP5. The RD series in my opinion was a big step downward in terms of realistic sound and keyboard action. I think Petros's points are very valid.

 

"The Roland velocity scale is too jumpy, it does not change gradually and consecutively enough, it's harder to control your dynamic touch."

 

This is exactly what I noticed. There seem to be bumps instead of fluidity. If you play alot of pieces which requires you to be expressive, this probably will become an issue you'll notice.

 

On the action, here's a tip. The stand that it is on makes a huge difference to how it feels to you (that and the height that it is placed)- insist on "piano playing" height and get a good comfortable chair/bench. This is what I call the 'piano experience' - it is important. If you are playing it on a wobbly stand, at the wrong height for you - you do not have the same perception as if it is on a nicely adjusted, properly placed stand. Insist on a stereo sound system - the samples are stereo (if they have both channels going to a mono amp - unplug one of them.) If you have to play in mono, use just one output this will avoid phase cancellation. So many factors can influence the sound and action on a digital piano. Make sure your comparison is as fair as possible.

 

Chris

[supermanrulez]

In my last post I forgot to put parentheses around the last paragraph. I took this from another post on another site

 

Chris

[petros]

Good points Chris, stable stand, height, bench and stereo are all important for a good piano like experience.

[David Loving]

Petros, In the interest of fairness I'll go back and listen to the p120 and p80 through the same amp. I actually like the small p120 speakers and the fact that it has a clavinet.

[lambchop]

Sorry guys, but I thought that the action on the Yamahas were nowhere near that of a typical grand piano. However, the Roland RD700 I found to be much more realistically responsive which is why I ended up purchasing one. I still do comparisons (I just did one yesterday at a Guitar Center between a P80, P90, P120 and RD700) and have no regrets. I find the action extremely touch sensitive and the escapement of the notes feel more authentic. It's one of the best performing keyboards I've used to date, although nalstalgia always brings me back to my old Rhodes suitcase (I wish I still had it ).

[David Loving]

Don't you find the rhodes patches on the rd700 quite good?

[Superbobus]

Here's to Daveloving. Have another listen to the P120 Rhodes through good headphones or a good amp. Me thinks the P80 Rhodes sounds like a super clean DX7. The Roland Rhodes samples don't have a good velocity switch handling (do I sound like Guestuser now? ).

The FP3 piano sample is cool, but if you want to play lots of Rhodes samples, P120 is the closest call, IMO.

[alby]

hi guys,

 

The Roland RD-700 will cost me around $4,000 AUD. This is over $1,500 over the price of a P120, which I can get for around $2,500. So we are not comparing apples with apples.

 

You would need to compare the RD-700 to the Yamaha P250, which I think is in the same price range.

 

Regards

Alby

[petros]

My friend who plays classical very well and also blues and rock is selling her RD 700 to get a P120. She says the P120 plays more like a real piano. I agree.

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Originally posted by alby:

hi guys,

 

The Roland RD-700 will cost me around $4,000 AUD. This is over $1,500 over the price of a P120, which I can get for around $2,500. So we are not comparing apples with apples.

 

You would need to compare the RD-700 to the Yamaha P250, which I think is in the same price range.

 

Regards

Alby

I don't think you can compare instruments based on price.

 

You can compare them by functionality, but I think the best thing is to create a list of your own personal requirements, and then compare the the instruments against that list, regardless of price.

[supermanrulez]

But price is a major issue for some people. Sometimes it becomes the deciding factor. Using the RD700 and P120, if you like them both and are happy with the features of both, then the price becomes a very important variable. IMO

 

Chris

[petros]

For gigging the P120 is only 40 lbs, what does the RD700 weigh? 56?

[alby]

Hi guys,

 

What I am saying is that you cannot compare a higher model Roland with a lower model Yamaha. Even if price is not an issue, a higher priced Roland should in most case out perform a lower priced Yamaha, especially if the price difference is $1,500.00 AUD.

 

Regards

Alby

[supermanrulez]

It should out perform a P120 but it doesn't on comparable features. IMO

Since the RD700 has more features, I see why you want to compare it to something similar. The P250 is more of a direct comparison with the RD700. Play them all and then make a decision.

 

Chris

[analogman1]

Hey there...

Finally played a p-90 the other day. It sounded and played GREAT!

It's now between that and the p-250. I just don't know if I could justify the extra weight, price and **bulk** of the p-250. I'm going to try to go someplace and A-B them. Then I'll make my decision.

That said, the p-90 still REALLY ROCKS! I'd encourage anyone considering an electric piano to give this a serious listen!

Big T from NY

[alby]

Hi analogman1,

 

So is the P90 better than the P120?.

 

Regards

Alby

[analogman1]

Hi Alby!

Well....again, I have to carefully A-B them. The 120 was using its internal speakers, against the small self powered monitors the p-90 was going through...so it wouldnt be fair to choose yet...

But from what I could tell...there was more detail in the p-90 sound.

And...it's so nice and portable!

I'll keep you all posted...the saga continues...

Big T from NY

[Superbobus]

Originally posted by analogman1:

Hi Alby!

Well....again, I have to carefully A-B them. The 120 was using its internal speakers, against the small self powered monitors the p-90 was going through...so it wouldnt be fair to choose yet...

But from what I could tell...there was more detail in the p-90 sound.

And...it's so nice and portable!

I'll keep you all posted...the saga continues...

Big T from NY

P120's internal speakers suck. That's no comparison. With the P120 you just can't go wrong. Great piano, fantastic Rhodes. I guess the P90 is great too, knowing Yamaha. I just don't like its P80 looks. Is there any way you can compare then in realtime?

[David Loving]

I am replacing the p80 after all. I compared them again. Listening to the p80 with the poster's dx7 observation in mind, I find that the p80's ep2 sound really is a clean dx7; I've been in denial!! Maybe I played the old dx7 too long - I did like it. Anyway, it'll be a yamaha, either be a p90 or a p120. This has been a great thread. Keep the comparisons coming. I still haven't found a p90 yet.