Roland A-80 aftertouch

[Dave Horne]

In another thread re after touch, the A-80 was mentioned and the fact that the after touch is difficult to trigger. I came across the following site a long time ago http://personal.inet.fi/private/matador/se_roland_a-80.html and am now following up on this modification. I've had my A-80 since 1989 or so and am finally getting around to make this modification.

 

I sent Roland an e-mail and am waiting for a reply.

[VanZea]

Years ago, when I still had my A80, I did this mod myself, and finaly the aftertouch was usable. Recommended!

 

Grtz,

Jeroen

[Dave Horne]

Jeroen, was the info at that link in my initial post accurate? Did you receive instructions from Roland re the value of the resistor?

 

Thanks, Dave

[Marzzz]

If you can, try to install a high-quality variable resistor so that you can make adjustable changes to the aftertouch. Roland recemmends a specific change of one resistor, but there were several reports over the years of people trying different values.

[VanZea]

I did install a variable resistor and used it to adjust the aftertouch to my taste while playing on the A80 with the 'lid' open. I'm not sure your description is correct, it was a long time ago I did this mod, and I don't have my A80 anymore...

 

Grtz,

Jeroen

[Dave Horne]

I just rec'd a reply from Roland Benelux ...

 

Dear Dave,

>

Change the resistor R43 5,6 Kohm to 10 Kohm or even 15 Kohm on the main-A

board.

Just test what's best for you.

 

Best regards,

 

Van Sand Joris

Joris.Van.Sand@Roland.be

Service Dept.

Roland Benelux

[Dave Horne]

I just did the modification. According the Roland, the value for the resistor at location R43 should be 5.6K. It was 10K on the board coming from the factory.

 

I replaced that with a 20K variable and if there's a difference, I can't tell.

 

I've sent another e-mail back to Roland (Benelux) giving them this information and asking them to check their info.

 

If any of you guys have the need to open your A-80, I'd appreciate knowing the value of R43 and R45. (There was a mention of that resistor on a non_roland web site.)

 

I have changed the aftertouch curve in the edit menu for the patches I really want. I'm afraid I might have to live with this unless I get more, better, and different info.

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

I just did the modification. According the Roland, the value for the resistor at location R43 should be 5.6K. It was 10K on the board coming from the factory.

 

I replaced that with a 20K variable and if there's a difference, I can't tell.

 

I've sent another e-mail back to Roland (Benelux) giving them this information and asking them to check their info.

 

If any of you guys have the need to open your A-80, I'd appreciate knowing the value of R43 and R45. (There was a mention of that resistor on a non_roland web site.)

 

I have changed the aftertouch curve in the edit menu for the patches I really want. I'm afraid I might have to live with this unless I get more, better, and different info.

It could be that the aftertouch sensor strip is worn out - I think that's a common problem, especially with the A80's moreso than the A50's. At least, I think that's what I remember being told by a Roland service technician. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to discuss this with your Roland tech, or better yet, have them test it out.

 

As far as I can remember, the sensor strip is divided into 3 or 4 sections, so you may not have to replace the whole thing. Try testing the aftertouch at the top and bottom ends of the keyboard - those are the least used keys, and less likely to have the aftertouch strip worn out.

[Dave Horne]

GuestUser, thanks for the info. I just checked the keyboard and the aftertouch is the same all over the keyboard. That would seem to rule out your suggestion.

 

Thanks, Dave

[Markyboard]

I hate to tell you this Dave but I went through all this 10 years ago. The mechanical design of the A-80 Aftertouch (AT) is the problem - it is not electrical (lack of current). I'm now sure that I did change out the resistor with no improvement. I believe Roland kind of talked around the problem and didnt want to tell me it was a design problem as it was still being sold at the time. I recall an inconsistency between notes depending on how close they were to the ends of each AT section. I believe the A90 got rid of the problem. But then again that has only channel AT as does everuy other onme on the market today.

I finally got fed up a couple of years ago and went with a channel AT board that was useable as opposed to a poly AT board that was not. Good luck.

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

GuestUser, thanks for the info. I just checked the keyboard and the aftertouch is the same all over the keyboard. That would seem to rule out your suggestion.

 

Thanks, Dave

Not necessarily - it could just mean that the sensor strip is worn out all across the keyboard.

[Dave Horne]

GuestUser, not to be difficult, but the aftertouch has always been as it is now, difficult, a lot of pressure to make it work.

 

I will wait to hear back from Roland Benelux. I've sent them two e-mails in the last week and am still waiting for a response.

 

Thanks, Dave

[Sergievsky]

A little off T, but how bright is your display? I replaced the lcd panel on my A80 but it still pales in comparison to my triton rack. Actually, I think it's starting to disappear again. Not sure if A80s in general have dimly lit displays.

 

Keep us updated on the mod, I'm planning to do the mod myself soon as I have time...if it works...

[Dave Horne]

My display is still fine. I only use it on jobs and rarely at home. It's too bad they stopped making them. There have been remarks re the noise from the screen. My unit makes a steady noise, but if I place my ear over the power supply, the screen or the left side of the keyboard, I really couldn't tell you the source.

 

I'd bet today they could make the same thing and it would be a few pounds lighter. I'm still glad I bought it years ago. I think I might have mentioned here that it was 14 years old(?), actually I just found the recipt and I bought it 1991, 12 years ago, if my short term memory is correct.

[Dave Horne]

Originally posted by Markyboard:

I hate to tell you this Dave but I went through all this 10 years ago. The mechanical design of the A-80 Aftertouch (AT) is the problem - it is not electrical (lack of current). I'm now sure that I did change out the resistor with no improvement. I believe Roland kind of talked around the problem and didnt want to tell me it was a design problem as it was still being sold at the time. I recall an inconsistency between notes depending on how close they were to the ends of each AT section. I believe the A90 got rid of the problem. But then again that has only channel AT as does everuy other onme on the market today.

I finally got fed up a couple of years ago and went with a channel AT board that was useable as opposed to a poly AT board that was not. Good luck.

I'm beginning to think you may be right. I mentioned earlier in this thread that I changed the curve settings for a few patches. The jury is still out if that made any difference as well.

What bothers me - the R43 resistor is 10K and not 5.6K as it should have been. Mine may have been a later model and they made that modification, but really didn't solve the problem (as you mentioned). If I learn anything from Roland, I'll pass it on, but I'm not holding my breath. At the very least, I've certainly got my money out of this keyboard. One keyboard for 12 years ain't bad.

 

I have to say I was a bit nervous removing the mother board from the piano. As you get older your ability to focus on close things starts failing. There were about 10 or 12 ribbon/cable connections and I dutifully wrote down all the color codes. The only connection that gave me a little problem was the the flat ribbon from the keyboard to the left side of the motherboard. It was mostly not being able to focus so closely. I'm really going to have to buy a magnifying glass.

 

I'm becoming my grandparents.

[Markyboard]

At the very least, I've certainly got my money out of this keyboard. One keyboard for 12 years ain't bad.

 

Yep - I agree. I bought mine in May of 89 for $2050 and replaced it Feb 2001 (almost 12 years). I sold it a few months later for just over $500.00. Definitely got my moneys worth.

 

I replaced the keybed(true waterfall version) in my CX-3 last night. Had to remove lots of stuff to get at and remove the keybed. Just keep track of how to put it back together and you will be fine. I havent been to a repair shop since my Wavestation was upgraded to EX in 1992. If I can get the parts I'll do it myself. Never got myself into trouble and I've saved a good amount of money between upgrades and repairs. I've been inside almost every keyboard I own. Then again... I is engineer.

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

GuestUser, not to be difficult, but the aftertouch has always been as it is now, difficult, a lot of pressure to make it work.

 

I will wait to hear back from Roland Benelux. I've sent them two e-mails in the last week and am still waiting for a response.

 

Thanks, Dave

Ok, I didn't realize that. No difficulty taken!

 

The aftertouch on my A50 is not as easy to engage in its default setting as I'd like, but can be adjusted by changing the sensitivity setting, so that it's easy to engage. I always figured that A80's must be the same, at least when they were new, but I guess that's not the case.

 

I have tried a couple of used A80's before, I was considering getting one to augment my A50. And it was truly amazing how difficult it was to engage the aftertouch - almost impossible, even after adjusting the sensitivity to the max. I always thought the ones I had tried must have been worn out.

[Marzzz]

Someone here mentioned problems with the display- one of the reasons I sold my A-80 after ten years was this high pitched "whine" that was coming from the display that actually began to drive me crazy. That and the aftertouch problem....I have since replaced it with a Yamaha S-90, but I still think the A-80 had one of the best "piano-like" actions of nearly anything I have ever tried.

[StickMan393]

Holy thread resurrection, batman.

OK, I got my Roland A-80 about two years ago. Aftertouch was not useable, and required way too much force.

This weekend, I opened her up and checked resistor 43. It was 10k, factory installed I'd estimate.

I replaced R43 with a 51k 1/4 watt. The mod is pretty easy to do if you are handy with a soldering iron and solder braid or solder-sucker to remove the old component.

 

The aftertouch now works as expected. It's fairly firm, but totally usable. Some keys are more sensitive than others but I would expect this on a 'board this old, especially with individual key sensors.

 

I verified that it was transmitting poly-AT - you need to enable it on a per-zone basis from the front panel - and then played around with chords using Arturia CS80v. Poly AT is now working fine.

 

I highly recommend this mod. Replace R43 with a 56k resistor, and you're golden.

 

Thanks to the following online resources:

http://www.soundofmusic.se/new/archive/Roland%20A-80.pdf

for which screws to remove from base in order to lift up the panel;

 

http://computermusicguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=340

for an entertaining rant and pictures of the front panel lifted up and location of the resistor.

[Piktor]

Holy thread resurrection, batman.

I highly recommend this mod.

 

 

Thread resurrection? Boy, I'll say!

Had similar mod done to my Roland A50 a couple years ago. It made a tremendous difference.

[AnotherScott]

Holy thread resurrection, batman.

I highly recommend this mod.

 

 

Thread resurrection? Boy, I'll say!

Had similar mod done to my Roland A50 a couple years ago. It made a tremendous difference.

Does anyone know, for the A50, is the mod exactly the same? I assume the location is the same, it's probably the same actual circuit board, but I wonder if the value of the resistor to use becould be different, since the actions on the boards are different, which might also have an impact on how the aftertouch responds. I doubt it would be different in this respect, but I figured it was worth asking...

[Marzzz]

I recall that the A50 mod was different- both the location of the resistor and the resistor value itself, but ten years on I am not sure the info is still available. FWIW, I went with a Kurzweil MIDIBoard for nearly a decade, and now have a VAX77. The PolyAT works great on those boards.

[AnotherScott]

I recall that the A50 mod was different- both the location of the resistor and the resistor value itself, but ten years on I am not sure the info is still available.

Ah. Maybe Piktor can dig it up for us! (Or perhaps photograph what was done in his?) I actually have an A50 I would like to try this on.

[Piktor]

I recall that the A50 mod was different- both the location of the resistor and the resistor value itself, but ten years on I am not sure the info is still available.

Ah. Maybe Piktor can dig it up for us! (Or perhaps photograph what was done in his?) I actually have an A50 I would like to try this on.

 

 

I found and saved a scrap of info about this years ago. This link is still active, though it doesn't offer a really authoritative answer: http://personal.inet.fi/private/matador/se_roland_a-80.html

 

My keyboard service tech happens to be in my band, so I'll check with him to see what he did. I do believe that he got the instructions for the modification by calling Roland directly. I should be able to let you know what he says later in the week.

 

Mike

 

 

[AnotherScott]

That would be great, thanks!

 

Yes, I had seen that link, and you're right, it does not give solid answer, especially for the A50.

 

 

[orangefunk]

Just to verify... do these boards have individual aftertouch per key, or are they zone based?

[AnotherScott]

Just to verify... do these boards have individual aftertouch per key, or are they zone based?

per key

[Marzzz]

They have "Key" polyphonic aftertouch. Individual per note.

[StickMan393]

I experimented with the aftertouch mechanism in my Roland A-80, and have successfully restored it to playable condition.

The full story can be found here:

 

Roland A-80 aftertouch upgrade - The Prodigal Sounds

 

 

For the TLDR folks, the short version is this: Insert small rectangles of Velostat between the carbon contacts and the plastic pressure strip; and change R43 to around 10k. (a variable resistor will let you dial in a good response).

[AnotherScott]

Interesting. I wonder if the same thing works with the different action of the A70.