Phait Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Hiya. Well let's see... when I was about 9 I took keyboard lessons. Just basic playing kinda regimen, and that's the extent of my keyboard knowledge. I've been getting into Nine Inch Nails ALOT and well, since Trent works mostly through synth/computer/keyboard, I've taken an interest to using this tool as well. I have been playing guitar for 7 years, and I know computers quite well. My questions are this: -With keyboards, you can import sound samples and play them on the keys? -To compose/arrange songs, do I need a "workstation" keyboard? -I know software is an important part in sequencing and tracking... what's a good starting package? -What is a good starting keyboard? I'm not overly concerned about price - but I don't want to break the bank, you know... I am looking for a keyboard that will allow me to do, well... alot - I want to have soundbanks and be able to play them on the keyboard and just mess with the samples via software/keyboard. I just want to make music with this tool as you can do so much, so what do I do, where do I start? Thanks for your replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted July 12, 2003 Author Share Posted July 12, 2003 I stopped by a music store today and they recommended a few things, among them - Roland Fantom-S. Your thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Zeger Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Welcome, Phait You'll get a ton of good information on this forum. I hope I can give you a start. If you liked the Fantom, you'll also want to check out the Korg Triton, Yamaha Motif, and Kurzweil K2600 series workstations. I'd suggest reading Keyboard Magazine reviews of these to get an understanding of the features, then let your ears and your fingers determine the one best for you. Since you asked about sequencing software, you might consider a keyboard without a sequencer. Yamaha S90 and Kurzweil PC2 (or PC2X with an 88 note keyboard) are popular choices around here. For sequencing software, the popular packages for Mac are MOTU Digital Performer and eMagic Logic. For PC, it's probably Sonar (sorry, I'm not well versed on PC software). Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veracohr Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 To sum up Mark Zeger, to compose you will find it vastly useful to have either a workstation keyboard, which has a sequencer on board, or have sequencing software on a computer. The examples he used are good. As far as samples, you will need a sampler of some sort for that. Some keyboards have them, there's many in rackmount form, and some software samplers. Though most software samplers are just sample players, I think, so you have to be able to record the audio somewhere. I don't have much interest in samplers, so I can't suggest any. "And then you have these thoughts in the back of your mind like 'Why am I doing this? Or is this a figment of my imagination?'" http://www.veracohr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 I should've specified that the music store didn't have the Fantom-S so I didn't get to try it, and I didn't try any other keyboards because they didn't have any workstation boards.. I'll look into what you suggested, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 For a first keyboard to learn sequencing and sampling you might consider the Roland Fantom S or Korg Triton with sampling. Both have big screens and easy to use sequencers. They are quite user friendly. If you don't need the standard piano/organ/string/horns type sounds you might consider something like the Roland MC-909. For this you need a controller keyboard. A great deal at this time is the E-mu XL-7. I have seem them new as low as $499 online. It does not have sampling but it is still a great unit for the price. I would avoid using the Motif and a first sequencer. Though it sounds great it is difficult for experienced users to use the operating system. I hate to think about a new user trying it without any previous experience with workstations. For software, a decent first package is Reason. Also try demo's of FruityLoops. Reason is more popular but FL allows you to add VSTi's and DXi's for new types of sounds. Though you don't has new sound sources there are many Refills available for Reason. Both are cheap and it does not take a major computer to run them. One last thing, don't be afraid to buy seperates. While Triton, Fantom S, and Motif all sample it may be better to leave sampling to a dedicated sampler. You can still pick up a Yamaha A4000 for $400. It gives you 64 note polyphony and good sound. You can buy a non-sampling Fantom plus an A4000 for the price of the Fantom S. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KybdCanuck Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 For my 2 cents, a Korg triton would be the best for you. For someone getting started, it would be the easiest to use. It has a great sampler, and you can sequence with it too. But don't take my word, check for yourself. Different things work for different people. --KBC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Rhythm Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Since you know computers, you may want to look into an all software answer. Look at programs like fruity loops, reason, and Sonic Foundry acid. It would get you started. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moj Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 You might check out the Harmony Central forum. You can get a lot of info on soft synths from the "geeked out" members. The link is: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=18 BTW - I really appreciate the Keyboard Forum. I get good info from 'real' musicians about music. HC has it's a POV. A good balance between the two forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 You said up front that your goal was to create new music in the vein of Nine Inch Nails. You may or may not get what you're looking for when your get a workstation keyboard. For your musical goal (as has been mentioned), I'd look into using your computer, some loop software and an inexpensive controller keyboard as an option. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeronyne Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Phait, if you are computer literate and you want to do the industrial thing, be sure to consider Reason. Check out this demo using just the software and four notes by Charlie Clouser, a longtime Nail: http://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason/samples/CharlieClouser-FourNotes.mp3 It's a good, cheap start along the long road to Gear Acquisition Syndrome. Welcome. "For instance" is not proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 Jeff What controller keyboards could you recommend? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 zeronyne That reason demo is quite nice! - is getting anxious- Thanks for the link! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Originally posted by Phait: Jeff What controller keyboards could you recommend? Thanks.There are a few different criteria. a) How many keys do you need? I find it unlikely that with your type of music, you'd need anything as extensive as an 88-key weighted controller. It's doubtful you're going for authentic piano performances. At the same time, something too small might paint you into a corner when a piece comes along that you do want a wider range of imediately accessible keys. b) Do you want it to interface directly with the computer, or via a MIDI interface? Some controllers offer USB or serial ports for direct hook-up to your PC. c) How much control do you need? Some controllers have built-in knobs and sliders that can be assigned to various parameters...filters, effects levels and so on. I'd look into a controller from someone like Fatar, or perhaps M-Audio. Do a Google search on "controller keyboards" and you'll get quite a few to compare. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 Yea, 88 isn't somethin I need, nor weighted.. though weighted is cool.. Knobs and sliders I could use.. I remember playing around on a keyboard months ago and was thinking "whats that wheel do?" and I pushed it and it raised/lowered the pitch.. I could use stuff like that.. I suppose I don't need a board with sequencer and sampler built in.. that'd cut the costs I'm sure.. I just need to be able to: - map samples onto the keys and play them (I would like someone to elaborate with some examples of how one would do that and what you can do once you've mapped them beyond playing?) - have a wide array of instrument samples in the board (no-brainer) - anything I play is recorded/saved to hard disk then I guess everything from there is through software.. Thanks again everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 A "review" of the Fantom-S: From: http://www.gearpreview.com/cgi-bin/music/synth/fants/guestex.cgi?1 "Forget the hype and compare existing workstations before buying this mediocre attempt by Roland. I'm listing my Famtom S on ebay and getting a Triton!!!!! This board has too many issues, polyphony, sampling, no software editor and a bunch of recovering crack addicts in Roland support dept. Forget about them answering you questions!!!! If you still buy this half ass attempt of a workstation after reading this, than you will get what you deserve. After a month of beating your head against the wall, you too will come to the same conclusion......The Fantom S SUCKS!!!!!!!" Could this just be someone who knows nothing about keyboards and because of their frustration/first time with such a thing they think it "sucks" simply because they don't know how to use it? Does this 'review' have any weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Hey, Phait, you've gotten some good suggestions here, but don't be in a hurry to run out and buy Keyboard X just because someone else recommended it. I would advise you to (1) Think VERY carefully about what you want to achieve and HOW you're going to achieve it. (2) Start with the minimum amount of equipment possible - even if that's only ONE keyboard or ONE computer program - and learn that one thing thoroughly. Noodle around and play with it and try things and make a little demo to tape and try all of the settings and features at least once. Too many people buy a keyboard, play the presets for two weeks, get bored and buy something else. You'll never get anywhere doing that...except the poor house. (3) Add equipment only when you need to, and learn each new piece of equipment thoroughly. What kind of computer do you have? I'll join in and suggest that you try Reason. You might also enjoy a program called Acid. You can spend a couple of MONTHS learning everything there is to know about these programs, so start there if you have a computer and see what you can do. Before you buy ANY keyboard, play it at the store. Play ALL of the presets - programs, combinations, performances, drum/rhythm sets, etc. Try switching the effects on and off - the salesman will show you how to do this. If he doesn't know how, find another salesman or go to a different store. Try some of the controllers (mod wheel, pitch bend, ribbon controller, etc.). Make sure that you like the SOUND of the keyboard and the FEEL of it, too. It helps to play more than one model in the same visit so you can compare them. Let us know how you make out, and please post more questions as they come to you. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 My computer is old. It's a 150 Mhz Cyrix, 96 MB Ram, 50x CD-ROM, Win98... I've been planning for months to build a new one.. that was my original priority when I had my job but uh.. things switched So, before I dive into any real software (I've been experimenting with some free/shareware stuff like Goldwave, Hammerhead and misc other stuff for my amusement until I get a board/software to work with)... I need to build a new PC. I'm thinking of heading over to the music store today or tomorrow to checkout some non-workstation keyboards and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 just a sig/avatar test.. apparently it's not updating the italic code i fixed :\ and my avatar isn't showing though the url is right.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Reason and FruityLoops have demo versions available for download on the web. The last time I was in a Guitar Center they had one of the beginner versions of Acid Latin for $19 becaue it was discontinued. It is worth that just for the included loops. Pick up a demo of Acid here. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted July 22, 2003 Author Share Posted July 22, 2003 So, what are some things you can do with keyboards? I know that's a horribly vague question, but just throw me some examples Thanks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Originally posted by Phait: So, what are some things you can do with keyboards? I know that's a horribly vague question, but just throw me some examples Thanks..Well, if there's snow on the ground and your car lacks snow tires or chains, the additional weight of the piano can provide extra traction. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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