On showmanship

[coyote]

A quote from a guy many respect as a player and inventor: "I've found that people hear as much with their eyes as with their ears..."

 

That guy is 88 year old Les Paul. Just something to keep in mind when you're out there performing.

[Carlito]

That's right. And keep that in mind when replacing your lead singer.

[Pat Azzarello]

When I was 18, someone told me that if they had money to spend on a PA or lights, they would spend it on lights. I think in many ways he was right. In general I don't remember specific a single solo lick from concerts that I've been to (I typed "that I've seen" the first time), but I remember many special effects - especially when they are coupled with a musical event/transition (whatever). And I'm a musician ;-)

 

Also, I'm always amazed that musicians often assume that everyone speaks in their language and with their perspective and priorities. Recently a venue commented that they wanted to see more production, and the band decided that they needed to bring out a soundman to this club (that seated about 60 with many instruments' turned all the way down through the PA). I'd argue that those $$$ would have been better spent on lighting (or someone to run the house lights) as the only thing the club wanted to be certain of was that the band wasn't too loug, while the vocals were loud enough.

 

Over the years I've modified my purely musical ethic to be one that considers presentation, but it's usually an uphill battle with the rest of the band to make that (investment on top of the musical one) none-the-less.

[Dave Horne]

Originally posted by coyote:

A quote from a guy many respect as a player and inventor: "I've found that people hear as much with their eyes as with their ears..."

 

That guy is 88 year old Les Paul. Just something to keep in mind when you're out there performing.

Many people who are not musicians are impressed when a piano player moves all over the place (Keith Jarrett) or flute players who move all over the place (any classical flute major). You will hear from those folks that the musician in question played 'musically'. They were not necessarily listening with their ears, but with their eyes.

 

It also helps to smile whether you feel like it or not.

[RABid]

My first good paying, steady job was the Moose Lodge. We were not allowed to use lights there. Something about not wanting everyone to be able to see who was dancing as a couple on the dance floor. They also did not allow cameras in the place.

 

I also found that if you are trying to build a following, it is better to dance around and connect with the crowd rather than stand like a zombie and play the hottest licks they ever heard.

 

Robert

[Magpel]

On Occasion, showmanship and muscianship come head on into conflict. A good example of this is guitar height. Everyone who plays the damn instrument knows that higher is better. Everyone who loves rock and roll knows that lower is better. Wear it too high and you look like the Dave Clark Five...

[coyote]

Guitarists like Page & Slash look almost as silly as the DC5. The guitar shouldn't be up against your chin, nor should it be bouncing off your thigh.

 

Originally posted by Magpel:

On Occasion, showmanship and muscianship come head on into conflict. A good example of this is guitar height. Everyone who plays the damn instrument knows that higher is better. Everyone who loves rock and roll knows that lower is better. Wear it too high and you look like the Dave Clark Five...

[Rod S]

Tough to admit - but I agree. It's amazing how many excellent players I've seen live (coffee houses, bar, etc) which didn't make a lasting impression on my non musician friends for this reason alone.

 

I've lucked out - the singer I'm playing with now not only is incredible singer, but she's also an attractive tall brunette who has good stage presence. Shy off stage, but manages to put it aside and really shine on stage.

[freelance]

I've always been a beleiver in being a good showman. I move alot on stage and try to make it look like I've doing more than I really am (and often that I'm haing more fun than I really am). However I sometimes think it compromises my chops.

 

This really hit home a few years ago when I had to play several gigs sitting down (as a keyboard player)after some surgery prevented my from moving much. I set up my keys toward the back of the stage (so my lack of showmanship would not be as obvious). I for the first time (at least in that band) could just sit and play - vs. entertain.

 

At the end of the ggi our soundman (who had worked with us for one year) told me he didn't know I could play that well. He told me I should just sit and play and not jump around so much.

 

Ever since then I've toned down my stage antics somewhat and spent more time playing - I perhaps forgot how important being a good musician (vs. a showoff) meant to me.

[David R]

Singers definitely have to have an element of showmanship. All attention goes to singers anyway, so they really have to command it and keep it or else they look boring. Then again, I've seen too many singers ape the Plant/Jim Morrison/Chris Robinson school of convulsions and it just looks stupid.

 

As a pianist, I play sitting down, even when I play keys. I've seen some world music bands recently who have keyboardists who play standing up and their playing is severely compromised. But when I sit, I boogie in my seat. I get into it. I don't play like a classical piano student who's looking stoically at some faraway statue. Jarrett's spasms annoyed me at first, but I think he's a first rate player, groaning aside.

 

David

[Botch.]

If it weren't for showmanship we'd have no gigs at all.

[sudeep]

one of the first people who inspired me to really get into piano playing was a local player...who was playing blues/rock/gospel piano...and was just getting so into it while playing. I think i was impressed just as much by watching as i was listening to him. It was only later that i realised that he was one of the premiere pianist in the country.

[marino]

Yeah, everything is sadly true - people do listen with their eyes. The power of tone is neglected, bypassed. For an in-depth analysis of the acoustic vs. visual perception, try reading Marshall McLuhan's "The Global Vilage".

 

On a much more matter-of-fact level, I'll tell you my experience with the group Indaco. We have hot electric guitar (a guitar icon in my country, in fact), hot percussion, a lead singer...

Well, I get about five solos during the concert. Most times I get an applause at the end, but sometimes not. Want to know when I'm "sure" to get applauses? When I play better? When the arrangement is set for it? No... It's when I get *properly illuminated*. On a recent concert, we got a very pro lighting system, following the music very well; I even got clapping in the *middle* of my solos! And they weren't hotter than usual, not at all... In fact, I was feeling rather shitty, had a big headache, etc...

 

Look, before you tell me, this is not an ego thing. I like to be applauded, but I like it more when I feel I deserve it. This brings sad considerations about the level of listening - and music education - out there.

[coyote]

I don't think it's sad at all. As an example, I vastly prefer seeing Maceo Parker to Wynton Marsalis. Both players clearly know what they're doing - but Maceo is unafraid to put on a bit of show along with the great music. And I'd like to believe I've been somewhat educated in music.... it's more about the nature of us humans. We tend to be attracted to things which provide visual as well as aural stimulation. That is nothing to be ashamed of, and playing to that could arguably be considered the more professional approach in many instances.

 

Originally posted by marino:

No... It's when I get *properly illuminated*. On a recent concert, we got a very pro lighting system, following the music very well; I even got clapping in the *middle* of my solos! And they weren't hotter than usual, not at all... In fact, I was feeling rather shitty, had a big headache, etc...

 

Look, before you tell me, this is not an ego thing. I like to be applauded, but I like it more when I feel I deserve it. This brings sad considerations about the level of listening - and music education - out there.

[Jazzman]

I feel that stage presence is very important. Too much detracts away from the artist's real talants. As an example look at the singer of today, surounded by 10 dancers. I get tired of keeping track of the artist on stage with the rest of the group. In fact I think that the dancers have just about as much talant as the singer does when they are doing a group dance.

 

Lighting up the solo artist is a great way for the audience to visually focus on the talant. If not, in some cases, the sound would seem to be lost with the rest of the group. It is a kind of an accent and a recognition of the talant on stage. It is also important that the sound man allows the talant to shine when required, good miking, room quality and group setup are the key for most of it.

 

If the rest of the group is stationary then each person playing a solo would stand out based on everything in the background being the same. Good lighting for each artist is important. Another way is for the singer to face the artist that is doing the solo showing the focal point of the soloist.

 

Statements like "Give the Drummer Some" is a clear indication that the focal point is now on the drummer, or take it away "Keys" is another one, based on the situation.

 

Just a couple of thoughts on the subject.

 

Jazzman

[marino]

Originally posted by coyote:

I don't think it's sad at all. As an example, I vastly prefer seeing Maceo Parker to Wynton Marsalis. Both players clearly know what they're doing - but Maceo is unafraid to put on a bit of show along with the great music. And I'd like to believe I've been somewhat educated in music.... it's more about the nature of us humans. We tend to be attracted to things which provide visual as well as aural stimulation. That is nothing to be ashamed of, and playing to that could arguably be considered the more professional approach in many instances.

I get your point. But let's put it this way:

When you get aural and visual messages at the same time, the visuals usually win. This is kind of embedded in our genes. But the raw tone, when separed from any image, has a kind of unique, sheer power that you can only get that way - when it's not linked to visuals.

 

To put it in a simpler way: If you enjoy the music more when it's 'enhanced' by a good show, more power to you. I'm just saying that most people can't *make a distinction* between the two experiences. They absorb the music in a subliminal way, and are incapable of concentrating on it. This is what I find sad.

[Pat Azzarello]

Originally posted by marino:

I get your point. But let's put it this way:

When you get aural and visual messages at the same time, the visuals usually win. This is kind of embedded in our genes. But the raw tone, when separed from any image, has a kind of unique, sheer power that you can only get that way - when it's not linked to visuals.

 

To put it in a simpler way: If you enjoy the music more when it's 'enhanced' by a good show, more power to you. I'm just saying that most people can't *make a distinction* between the two experiences. They absorb the music in a subliminal way, and are incapable of concentrating on it. This is what I find sad.[/QB]

I agree with Marino here - Most of the time the crowds don't get it. For that matter, I've been a lot of bands with musicians that didn't get it either (Or maybe I was the guy who didn't get it ).

 

But does the audience enjoy the show? I think they do, but not for the same reasons that we'd like them to enjoy it. That doesn't make it any less enjoyable for them.

 

We have to balance our own needs, at our own levels. I'm not saying that 99% performer enjoyment and 1% crowd enjoyment is bad or good. We all have to find the comprimises that allow us to be happy. That might be standing while we play, or flipping our hair, or having 10 dancers on stage.

 

Personally I get off on it when the crowd is having a good time (even if I'm playing Brickhouse). I wouldn't want to play that tune every night of the week, and I'm glad I've got other outlets, but I do enjoy seeing the crowd have fun.

[SoundMeister]

[QB....most people can't *make a distinction* between the two experiences. They absorb the music in a subliminal way, and are incapable of concentrating on it. This is what I find sad.[/QB]

Not sure I agree with this. Sometimes if the music is truly compelling, what the musicians looks like and their stage act can be almost completely irrelevant. Also, I think audiences nowadays can be fairly sophisticated and they know very well that "showmanship" is just that and they can differentiate it from musicianship.

 

Connecting with the crowd is not necessarily a form of showmanship. I can appreciate an artist taking the time to make the concert experience more personal by explaining where songs came from.

 

I think musical entertainment has a very broad range. Glamour rock almost by definition has to have some glamour. With some genres glamour would inappropriate, however. It all depends on the music and the artist ... and audience preferences, of course. It's hard to generalize. I was recently talking to someone who said she found guitarists who make faces to be very distracting and annoying.

[Superbobus]

Showmanship is important. But I'm glad I'm the accompanist. Most of the showing off is done by the singer and the guitar player, while me and the rhythm boyz can focus more on the groove. That doesn't mean we don't have to look cool or that the guitar could lose the groove sometimes.

I just don't feel like myself when I have to show off. People will see that. But some stylish clothes (you wouldn't believe how some people are dressed onstage) and cool looks now and then will do.

[Odyssian]

So what is everyone's opinion on guitar-like keyboard controllers w/ strap that you can walk around with and play?

[Dave Horne]

Originally posted by Odyssian:

So what is everyone's opinion on guitar-like keyboard controllers w/ strap that you can walk around with and play?

That's an easy one. Let's keep the replies on this only for the people who actually own one.

 

This could be the end to this thread.

[Postman]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

That's an easy one. Let's keep the replies on this only for the people who actually own one.

How 'bout we don't, eh? People don't have to own one to have an opinion on it.

 

I do own one, though, a Roland AX-1B. I bought it mostly out jealousy. Guitar players have the wonderful ability to sit in front of a TV and practice licks and scales for hours on end. I find practicing as a keyboard player to be a rather solitary pasttime. I thought the AX-1 would allow me to hang with the family a bit more. It hasn't worked out as well as I would've liked, though. While an unplugged guitar has a tinny but tuneful sound, the AX-1 sounds like someone typing rhythmically. It's not pleasant for others watching TV. And to be honest, setting up a module is a pain in the ass. I guess I should've taken up the guitar. *sigh*

 

As far as how they look on stage, I think they look kind of goofy, but an animated player could overcome that I think. If they ever came out with a remote midi system, there might be some real performance possibilities there for the right personality. I saw a really good keyboard player use an old SH-101 as a keytar a while back. I thought it added to his act. I also thought it changed the nature of his solos. He made good use of the hand grip controller.

 

As far as playing them, I find there are a couple of drawbacks, the worst of which is that your hand gets cocked back toward your elbow while you're playing which I find painful after a while. You also can't look down at your hand while you play which ends up being a little more difficult than on a piano because the keyboard moves around. I don't know about you, but I know where a note is by knowing its position relative to my body. Velocity seems a bit harder to control as well especially if your dancing. On the AX-1 the I also find the pitch bender strip hard to control. I'm not sure why. I can never quite predict what I'm going to get when I use it. And if you release it before recentering it, I find the snap back to pitch on the release unmusical. Hey, but I got discouraged fast. You may have better luck.

 

So, I guess I'm not a big fan of them as far as playing. I don't think I have the stage presence to pull it off myself, but I don't think their use should be discounted out of hand. In the right hands I think there are real possibilities to spice a show up a bit and after all that's what brings 'em back.

[Dave Horne]

Postman, so you're the one who owns it. It would be curious to know just how many have been made. What's the serial number on yours?

[marino]

Originally posted by SoundMeister:

....most people can't *make a distinction* between the two experiences. They absorb the music in a subliminal way, and are incapable of concentrating on it. This is what I find sad.

Not sure I agree with this. Sometimes if the music is truly compelling, what the musicians looks like and their stage act can be almost completely irrelevant. Also, I think audiences nowadays can be fairly sophisticated and they know very well that "showmanship" is just that and they can differentiate it from musicianship.

 

Connecting with the crowd is not necessarily a form of showmanship. I can appreciate an artist taking the time to make the concert experience more personal by explaining where songs came from.

Maybe you're just more optimistic.... Anyway, I was talking from a pop/rock point of view, related to my personal experience. I do get very physical when I play sometimes - but that's not studied, or even conscious: It goes naturally with the music.

 

Talking to the crowd is another matter. I love it. It helps both you and the audience to connect. I even do it at classical concerts when they allow me!

 

BTW - I am one of those strap-on keyboard owner. I rarely use it nowadays - it's a Casio CZ1, and if you don't look at the name, it's much better than any Roland or other similar products. The keys feel great (the AX1 feels toyish to me),it has three wheels and lots of assignable controls.

And you know what... it's a ton of fun! Every now and then, I bring it onstage for a solo - but again, I don't plan any particular move, I just go for the moment. Last time, I just stood on the edge of the stage for a long solo... Later, I got pictures of that, and boys, my face was deformed with excitement! But again, that was because I was totally into the music. Nothing was 'coreographed' - and that's how I like it.

[brogroove]

Hi, All this is my first post here on this forum. I worked for years as a hired keyboard player and generally stayed in the background. Now I'm fronting my own group standing up playing keys and singing. I have definitely found that the showmanship angle is very important. Recent proof of this was two concerts I saw in the last three months. Billy Preston and Dr. Lonnie Smith. Both are great players of course, but what was more inspiring was their complete confidence and presence on stage. I couldn't take my eyes off of them and they're sheer joy of performing was infectious. I found when I kept that in mind the next night at my gig I had a better time and the audience response was much more enthusiastic then before. Smile, relax, and connect. That's what we long for as humans any ways. A good light show never hurts either.