Piano practice advice

[David Loving]

Let's say you have an hour each day. What is the most productive way to practice? Any set routines or methods? What works best for you and how did you get to doing it that way?

[Dave Horne]

First, I would ask you, what are your musical goals?

 

From my point of view, an hour per day is maintainance and nothing more, ... just enough to keep the level of technique where it was yesterday ... and that is only if you practice a fair amount of technical excercises in that hour.

 

So, what are your musical goals? ... performing live solo, in a trio, in a combo, just for fun, enough to impress the girl next door??? ... it's difficult to answer without knowing _your_ goal.

[Rod S]

I agree with Dave that you need to define what your goals are.

 

I find that my weekly practice routine goes thru an overhall every few months. I'm spending about 30% time practing and arranging stuff for my new gig these days, which I wasn't doing 2 months ago.

 

I've also been practicing singing and playing at the same time, which I have trouble with. I wasn't even attempting to do that a few months ago.

 

A teacher can evaluate where your weakenesses are, what you should focus on, and recommend appropriate exercises.

 

I've noticed a lot of the classical piano students spending TONS of time on one piece alone, something I personally I wouldn't do, but that's personal choice.

 

I also agree that 1hr a day seems a minimum to just keep up - at least for me. I'm currently working on 2-3 hrs a day 4 days a week (I have to have my night off ), and about 5 hrs each sat and sunday. I'm not sure how long I'll be able to keep this up, but it's been working really nicely for the time being.

[marino]

Dloving, it's very difficult to give advice without knowing your level and goals, but generally speaking:

 

One hour every day is a bare minimum. You *can* make progresses, if you are diligent - but quite slowly.

 

My advice is to increase the lenght of your daily study a bit at a time. There's no point in suddendly practicing for six hours - it would only hurt your hands. You have to build stamina and confidence.

 

Take small pauses. Like, 5 minutes every 45 minutes of practice or so. Start with warm-ups, then some serious technique work, or maybe a piece that you're working on, but taken purely on the technical side (Slowed down, taking the difficult bits apart, etc.). Then the core of the session - some musical/structural work (like bringing a piece to tempo, or playing the whole piece with no interruption, or working on dynamics, etc.). Then some more technique, but slow and relaxed.

After a further pause ( ), you can spend more time just playing, as it comes to your head. This could mean improvising, or playing a written piece without thinking to much - just let it sing, and develop your own touch and feel.

 

If you're studying improvisation too, you should also set apart some time to prctice harmony, voicing, phrasing, repertoire...

 

As you can see, it takes time to complete a 'true' practice session - it's hard to achieve a pro level with just an hour a day. When I was in the conservatory, my routine was about 4 hours for the assigned pieces, PLUS extra time for whatever other musical endeavour of my own. (I wish I could afford myself such a long practice time now! )

 

But on the other hand, if you have just that much time, you can always make progresses if you pace your study carefully. For example, you divide your technique in branches, and practice them in an alternate fashion, so that at the end of the week, you have practiced the whole lot. Same with the pieces you have to learn. The most important thing here is continuity - none of the various 'branches' should be abandoned for more than a few days.

 

Above all: If you're a beginner (and even if you aren't) a good teacher is essential. Otherwise, you risk to aquire wrong postures or hand positions, and this will really hurt you in the long run.

 

If you reply with more details about your piano studies, we could be more specific!

 

For now - Hope this helps

 

Carlo

[Dave Horne]

I second what Marino says.

 

The only thing I do differently is to take a break after 25 minutes or so. I find it difficult to really concentrate for longer periods without getting mentally tired.

 

After 25 minutes, it's time for another cup of coffee or another cup of tea. Time for a five minute pause and then start up again.

 

I find it's good to also take time away from the piano, but that's another story. When I go on vacation, I am away from the piano for weeks at a time. When I return, it's always a treat for the first few days.

 

When I was younger I always thought I practiced for long periods. When I actually started timing my practice sessions (with a stop watch - no playing, clock on pause; coffee drinking, clock on pause), I soon found I really only practiced three hours or so at most per day. I now aim for 15 hours per week. If I don't achieve that during the five day week, I make it up on the weekend.

 

What Marino said about getting a teacher is right on - you need to have someone from time to time standing behind you critically looking at your hands.

 

Also, when I was younger, I thought it was a waste of time to only practice using one hand. Spend some time using just one hand and examine and listen to what you are playing very closely.

 

Gotta go ... long day tomorrow.

[David Loving]

Thanks for the advice. I am embarking on a program of improvement. I want to learn and recall some rather easy classical pieces that have escaped me, and work on sight reading. I love playing scales. I actually like to practice and did quite a bit in college, although I was not a music major. I play at band rehearsals about 3 or 4 nights a week, and day job and other life activities make available time a little limited. I just want to get back to a regular practice regimine and wondered what would be the best use of time. Modest goals.

[Dave Horne]

dloving, if you are locked into one hour per day, you might want to take about 15 minutes or so just for technique.

 

During the technique phase of my routine, I try to kill three birds with one stone, as it were. The content of what I practice varies but the general principle doesn't.

 

I usually practice some kind of pattern or scale or arpeggio. I practice ... 'whatever', one note each hand (for technique), in all keys (for the mind) and make attempts to actually use that information when improvising ... the third 'killed bird'.

 

Each week or so the routine changes. Now, for 12 days - one day for each major key, I spend about 25 minutes playing melodic patterns - one note each hand from a collection of patterns. After those 25 minutes, I then practice arpeggios (in all inversions, of course) in contrary motion in the same key (M7, Dom7, m7, m7b5, a minor chord with a M7 and an augmented chord with a M7). I only practice chords I actually use in playing. I rarely play arpeggios of simple triads, so I don't practice them. Practice what you actually use when playing.

 

If you're playing scales, don't just play from scale degree 1, up two or three octaves and back, start or scale degree 2 in major and so on and so on. Just try to get the most from the time you spend when you're in the technical 'mode'.

[Carlito]

During the technique phase of my routine, I try to kill three birds with one stone, as it were. The content of what I practice varies but the general principle doesn't.

 

Now I know who's devastating the fauna of Netherlands.

 

Back to practicing, whatever time you have to practice, try to get the most of it. A weekly plan is very good. Also set deadlines for things you're learning.

 

You said you're rehearsing 3 or 4 nights a week, so for now, you should just focus on what your band needs from you. See what your weaknesses are, and just work on them. When you feel confident enough with your role in the band, explore other things.

[Albert]

I agree with the others that 1 hour a day is simply maintainance, and that if you spend the entire hour on technique. To build up, you really need to spend more than that per day.

 

I find one of the most efficient exercise programs to be Hanon. It works both hands equally and includes much of the technique that a classical pianist will encounter. czerny exercises seem to me to be overly right hand oriented. There are of course many, many piano technique methods, with Pischna being another on fairly widely used.

 

My routine with Hanon is to start with book two and go through into book three. If I have a second practice session in the day I'll warm up on book one then get to work on the repertoire. If you are starting Hanon for the first time you should begin with book one. I really have found Hanon to be a great time-efficient warm up routine.

[Tusker]

Wow, what a great thread. Keep it coming. Dave, can I ask you to clarify a couple of things.

 

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

I then practice arpeggios (in all inversions, of course) in contrary motion in the same key (M7, Dom7, m7, m7b5, a minor chord with a M7 and an augmented chord with a M7).

This is really helpful. I do spend more time on basic triads than I should probably (and not enough on voicings that actually would be used). Are you doing second octave voicings? (using the chord C9 as an example) Are you breaking up voiced chord (e, g, bflat, d) as opposed to playing the full chord (c, e, g, bflat, d). And are you using voicing to drive your note choice (for example leaving out the g since you can voice C9 adequately without the g) I could see playing the full chord as having more benefit for the mind, but not the fingers.

 

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

If you're playing scales, don't just play from scale degree 1, up two or three octaves and back, start or scale degree 2 in major and so on and so on.

How are you fingering these, Dave? For example if your right hand starts g major on the fourth ©, are you starting with the thumb (Like a Lydian in C) or with the fourth (like an interrupted G major)?

 

It's been a while since I've been diligent, and this thread is helping me get back on track. Thank you,

 

Jerry

[Dave Horne]

//This is really helpful. I do spend more time on basic triads than I should probably (and not enough on voicings that actually would be used). Are you doing second octave voicings? (using the chord C9 as an example) Are you breaking up voiced chord (e, g, bflat, d) as opposed to playing the full chord (c, e, g, bflat, d). And are you using voicing to drive your note choice (for example leaving out the g since you can voice C9 adequately without the g) I could see playing the full chord as having more benefit for the mind, but not the fingers.//

 

If I play an arpeggio of a C9 chord, I usually play a C in the bass and arppegiate an em7b5 (or a e half dim 7) .. or in other words, the rest of the chord. (You use the term 'second octave voicing' ... that's a new one for me.)

 

BTW, there's nothing wrong with spending time practicing simple triads if you use them when you play. The point is to make your practice time more efficient so I don't practice them.

 

//How are you fingering these, Dave? For example if your right hand starts g major on the fourth ©, are you starting with the thumb (Like a Lydian in C) or with the fourth (like an interrupted G major)?//

 

You know, I've done this for so long, I really don't think about it anymore. For starters, try playing a scale from scale degree 1 with the 'normal/correct' fingering. Play the 'modes' as if you had already started from scale 1 but left out the notes before the mode you want to practice. (This is much easier to explain if you were sitting at the keyboard.)

 

... or use what seems right for you. You can really figure all of this out for yourself. The only 'rule' (which can be broken on occasion) ... don't cross your middle finger over your fourth finger.

 

You'll find this is easier than you think.

[Graham English]

This is more of a psychology of practicing response. It's based on the Law of Reversed Effort: The harder one consciously endeavors to do something, the more difficult it becomes to succeed.

 

It's so obvious. The harder you try, the harder it is! As you practice, emphasize imagination and imagery rather than appealing to the conscious will. For example, instead of working really hard to get it right or simply verbally demanding that you will get it right, you may imagine how good it feels to get it right. Then associate that positive feeling with the act of practicing. If you feel like you're struggling, it's because you are struggling.

 

Hope that helps

[David Loving]

The reason I brought this up is that I just want to improve. I play quite a bit already, and don't really have any technique complaints; I get the technique I need from what I play. I just feel like I'm in a bit of a rut. I find myself falling back on the same old patterns, etc. and think it's interesting to woodshed a little more. So that's what I'm going to do. All these tips are really interesting. I'm getting out some of the easier Chopin and starting with that. Maybe I can finally learn the waltz in C#m once and for all; I have worked on it all my life just about! I'm going to work out a set of arpeggios to practice and stick with those for a while. You play Hanon in all the keys, right?

[Dave Horne]

re Hanon. I was going to ask this last night. It's been ages since I worked through any Hanon and if my memory is correct, the exercises are only in one key, correct?

 

It's always better to practice exercises in all keys.

 

Re the C# Chopin Waltz - in addition to practicing the notes, have you spent any time analyzing the chords? (BTW, Dick Hyman and Niels Pedersen play that waltz on Elegies, Mostly.)

 

If a particular part is giving you problems, practice that part very slowly. The advice I always give students, play as slowly as you can without making any mistakes. If you make mistakes at a slow tempo, you will make mistakes at a faster tempo.

 

Re Mr. English's remarks - 'As you practice, emphasize imagination and imagery rather than appealing to the conscious will. etc.'

 

My vote goes with more concrete solutions ... practicing slowly, playing the part that gives you problems hundreds of times and lastly, the time proven solution - be able to write the write from memory onto manuscript paper. When you can do that you will have a firm grip on the music.

 

One additional thing - the point of having more technique than is required by the music is this - when people listen to you, they should not be distracted by _you_, they should only hear the music. That's a whole other discussion. Some players draw attention to themselves and others bring no attention to themselves and address only the music. You need the technique so you don't get in the way of the music.

[CP]

Very interesting topic. I too have been in a rut recently. I need a good practice routine. I'm learning how to improvise, and need a good practice routine. I can read music, I can go to a fake book and voice the chords or play the song, and I know my scales. However, I don't practice playing the scales because I get bored doing that.

 

I need a good practice schedule that would help me with improvising. I can probably devote two hours a day (one in the morning, one in the evening). Should I start with a key a day and run through the various scales like pentatonic, blues, diminished, minor, etc. until I know them cold or that just a waste of time.

 

Any thoughts would be truly appreciated.

[David Loving]

I don't think scales are ever a waste of time. I try them in all keys at different tempos, to a metronome, sometimes one hand (usually more left than right)or both together, different motions parallel and contrary motion. etc. Maj., min, dim. blues scales, as modes, whole tone, and it's fun to make up scales on chords you use in tunes, too. But everybody's different. That's just what I like to do. I'm a little obsessive-compulsive, which is probably how I learned to play in the first place. I'm just trying to get back to regular practice.

 

Dave Loving

Waxahachie, Texas

[Albert]

Most of the Hanon exercises are in C, but others are in all keys. Obviously, the scales and arpeggios are in all major and minor keys, and some of the later exercises in book three have modulations. The bulk of the exercises are in C, but are dead simple to transpose to other keys.

 

So yes, they are printed in C but can be transposed to any other key very easily by the pianist. Certainly there was no need for them to print out the transpositions.

[RudyS]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

If you're playing scales, don't just play from scale degree 1, up two or three octaves and back, start or scale degree 2 in major and so on and so on. Just try to get the most from the time you spend when you're in the technical 'mode'.

dave what do you mean exactly. i don't quite understand.

[Dave Horne]

I thought wrote I was clear, but here we go again.

 

OK, just for the sake of this explanation we are in the key of C major ... just the white notes on the piano.

 

Normally when classical students are taught scales (and fingerings), they play from the note C up (or down) two or three octaves and back again, right?

 

Well, instead of starting on scale degree 1 (which is note C in this example), start on scale degree 2 ... D. Play a C major scale up and down two or three octaves but starting and ending on a D (instead of a C). Some folks like to use old Greek names for the names of these 'modes', but I prefer to speak in terms of scale degrees. (I find that easier.)

 

So, instead of playing a C major scale beginning and ending on C, use any other member of that scale to begin on and return to.

[RudyS]

aha, thanks.

now i understand. (didn't know the term degree in this case, but now i do)

 

i've never done that before though.

[Dave Horne]

Ohtar, this is off topic - I looked at your profile and saw you like music and beer. A fine combination!

 

I'll pass this tip on to you because you also live in Holland. At the Super de Boer super market you can buy Pitt beer (which is actually brewed by Bavaria) for 4.67 Euros per crate (24 bottles, .30 liter). That's roughly half the price of Bavaria. I only see it sold at the 'Super', but it may be sold elsewhere. The bottle caps have no markings which makes it look like a no-brand beer. It's quite good and certainly worth the price.

[RudyS]

hahaha

thanks man. I will look at it (i know pitt is good beer).

 

(this forum is VERY usefull for me in many way's 0

[David Loving]

An important part of good musicianship is keeping up your strength and getting all your foodgroups!

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by daveloving:

An important part of good musicianship is keeping up your strength and getting all your foodgroups!

Ah yes, the four food groups. Pizza, Beer, Ice Cream and Taco Chips.

 

Seriously though, this is good advice - I wish I followed it. You also want to stretch, especially your back.