Artists always push envelopes...... ?

[Nraki]

Do you try to push envelopes? Or.. Do you prefer creating what you like. Or.. Do you prefer creating what people seem to like? Which one would you like? :cool:

[Wow]

I have been looking for "that sound" for 20 years and I still cant find it. I wonder if a musician is ever satisfied? or is that what keeps us going? A rollin stone if ya ask me.Was Hendrix satisfied with his sound. If you look at any interviews, he sounded unsure of his music alot. We, today, find his sound to be a corner stone of modern rock.

[patrick_dont_fret]

Hmmm, I've never pushed an envelope before. I'm sure it can't be that hard... Yeah, I think I'm dissatisfied with my sound...I still need to find that set of strings that will do me no bad. Other than that, I'm cool wiffit.

[whitefang]

I've given a lot of thought to this phrase, "pushing the envelope." To me, it indicates that there are limits, or boundries if you will, to what can or should be played. And to "push" it, means an attempt to redefine. I'm not sure I like that concept. But I also don't believe it was musicians who CREATED an envelope to begin with. Most likely, it was the listeners. Most music listeners are non-musicians, and tend to have narrow views on what they consider "good" or "bad" music. Witness the sucess of otherwise mediocre performers. Well liked because they release music that is simple in both construction and lyric. Or else because they look good. Well, I think that one can write music or songs that is simple in construction, but lyrically intricate. Or intrically constructed, but lyrically simple. But, the two together usually spells "yuck!" "Push the envelope?" Why not burn it instead? Whitefang

[Salyphus]

Well, I've certainly been known to push the limits of good taste :D

[Wow]

I do music with no vocals. It really takes you out of the "mainstream" . Most of my stuff is/was intricately constructed and the lyrics would suck big fat ones. As a result, I find fewer people that get my music. Mostly other musicians. Is this good or bad, I have no idea. Could be musician sympathy! :freak:

[Franknputer]

I have a songwriter friend who knows all about pushing envelopes, and he told me that working at the post office really sucked... [i]Ahh, f*ck you - it's a true story...[/i]

[halljams]

I find that i am not satsfied if i don't push it a bit, but like what was said,"who makes the boundries?". I have boundries that have been set by many years of listening to music and deciding what i do and don't like when i listen, i use those boundries to help guide my decisions in writing. When I have to use someone elses boundries, it gets gross.

[Jotown]

A true artist pushes their own envelope. It's not an external thing. You try to grow and evolve in new directions. Sometimes that envelope pushing is not very obvious.

[Tusker]

An artist should have "something to say" to society. In order for this "expressed thought" to be relevant and unique, it would be best if it were previously unthinkable, or contrarian. That's the logic of the artist-as-hero. Saving society from itself. Of course this idea itself is not a contrarian one at all. Just an old, well worn one. After all we live in a post-modern world, where art is terrifyingly aware of it's artifice. Jerry

[Mats Olsson.]

Is a person that is not pushing the envelope an envelope follower? /Mats

[Wewus432]

Stuff Envelopes From Home $1000's Weekly Look at the potential income that you could make! 100 envelopes weekly = $100 200 envelopes weekly = $200 300 envelopes weekly = $300 400 envelopes weekly = $400 It's a sweet little deal and for $5.00 I'll give you the link! But seriously I'm all for pushing the envelope. I think most creative people are. I like to see what something is or what people think it is and THEN find out what else it is, because to me there's always a hidden or extra dimension to anything including music. Finding that dimension to me is [b]pushing the envelope[/b].

[midispaceho]

I don't know if it is pushing the envelope or not, but I have a lot of fun exploring and bluring the boundries between disonance and harmony, rhythm and arhythmia. I make music for me and me alone. I am not a pro and do not play out, although I would consider it for fun. I for now just play with my synths and drum machines and do stuff that makes me happy and that pleases or intrigues my ear.

[Sylver]

Seems to me that attempting to be anything that you are not is being untrue to oneself. An artist who attempts to guide thier art in a certain direction, whether it's to please the audience, the record company, or to impress others by pushing the envelope, is not, IMO, being true to the piece. Michaelangelo, when asked how he created such amazing sculptures from blocks of marble replied that he did very little creation. The sculpture was already there, within the block of marble, and he was simply releasing it.

[The Bear Jew]

I do what I do. I don't know what the envelope is... I just play what feels right to me. I don't care about being innovative. I care about expressing myself in music the same way I hear it in my head.

[jeffbayson]

Miles Davis: "Play what you know and play [i]above[/i] what you know." Charlie Parker: "First you master your instrument. Then you master the music. Then you forget about all the sh*t you just learned and just play." Kurt Cobain: "Punk rock is freedom." I'll probably take a lot of flak for putting Cobain in there with Miles Davis and Charlie Parker, but what the hell... My highly subjective interpretation of these three quotes gives them, more or less, the same meaning. Jazz requires a great deal of technical mastery, but what Miles and Bird are saying is that you need to transcend all of what you have learned to truly express yourself. Piecing together some nice licks and patterns does not true art make. Sort of goes back to the "chops versus artistry" argument in the Ringo thread. Punk rock takes another route to the same goal. Instead of trying to transcend technique, it snubs its nose at technique altogether, opting for a more raw, (supposedly) direct approach, and freeing the artist in advance from the shackles of over-learning. I say "supposedly," because a lot of punk rock is juvenile, derivative bull poopy. In my opinion, however, Cobain wrote interesting melodies, chords and, yes, songs, that he probably wouldn't have written had he learned the "right way" to write first. The point of all of this gibberish to say that *my* idea of pushing the envelope is to let leave my comfort zone, and let my feelings control the music as directly as possible. I work quite a bit on my technique, but I like to think that, in my best moments, what I have studied [i]informs [/i] my music, rather than determines it from the outset. You can't push really the envelope through a conscious decision. Meaning, you can't say, "Hmm, nobody's played latin chord progressions on an electric accordion and sitar over a techno loop; that might sound original" and then create music that truly pushes the envelope... UNLESS your novel idea is an honest extension of your natural instincts. Your true musical passions will emerge and kill a clever idea every time. A bit of clever but passionless music can even become popular, as it might touch on several current trends at once and seem sleek or trendy for a while, but it never ages well. If you can recognize what part of what you play really inspires you, focus on that part and strive to cultivate it, overcome your fears of uncharted territory, ignore the doubting and second-guessing voices in your head, then, with enough natural reserves of passion and talent, [i]maybe[/i] you'll push the envelope. (Good Lord, I don’t know how I ended up writing this long-winded self-help screed. It’s easy to get carried away once you step up on the soap box. Things have been particularly slow in the office. I think I agree with everything I said, though. Enough disclaimers. I’m hitting the “add reply” button.)

[Wewus432]

Don't ever censor yourself eljefe, I like to hear what you have to say. I'm really enjoying all the comments on this thread, good topic nraki. Are any of you guys interested in that stuffing envelopes thing? Think about it, you'll get $1.00 an envelope, minus my commission. I personally stuffed 1500 last week, do the math, that's uh $1500. You can do it too. Let me know. I don't want to be pushy but don't miss out on the opportunity of your life. [b]Those envelopes are out there and they need to be stuffed.[/b]

[linwood]

I sold out years ago and write music mostly for corporate venues. Production music, jingles, incidental music. I dig it because every day is different and I still have enough time to do other projects if I want. It is a bit demanding. As I look at my desk, there are 27 projects that need to be written and I’ll get them done by Xmas. It’s not so much the music that’s a problem as it is all the people that are attached to these individual projects., but that’s my Hell. It pushes your creative envelope in the way that it forces you to create “right now”. Not much glory, but it’s a living.

[offramp]

Hank nails it in post #8, imho.

[Mr. Downchild]

I totally agree with Eljefe. I think Hank also has the right idea. I liken the idea of pushing/stretching/exploding the boundaries to ol' JT Kirk's rallying call to "boldly go where no man has gone before!" But IMHO this type of boundary pushing is irrelevant if it isn't at least fueled by creative passion. In Eljefe's example, he illustrated an artist coldly calculating a genre cross-pollination experiment. And like he said, what you usually end up with, is a novelty that quickly runs out of gas, especially if the artist in question doesn't have a coherent, consistent,cohesive vision instead of a simple creative mirage. In this case, it's the inability to follow through/expand on an idea. The history books are filled with these kinds of one-hit wonders. I remember a similar thread in the guitar forum a while back. In that thread, I was sort of bummed over what I felt was a lack of any real original, innovative music coming out today. I've since reconsidered, and discovered that not everybody has the gift of whatever channel that Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, Jimi Hendrix, Prince, etc, had, that enabled the muse to play [i]them[/i] like the instrument, but what we CAN also have, are solid [i]craftsmen[/i] . These types of artists are not exactly the most innovative, but the best can build a solid house utilizing the tools and blueprints dreamed up by the innovator, and yet, find their own voices/opinions/stories. At worst, they simply re-tell the dreams and story of the innovator. So, to put it simply, an artist can either blaze the trail, or walk the well trodden road, but only the creative muse will direct the traffic.