Is TLM 103 the best mic in it�s price range?

[nativeaudio]

I have a TLM 103 that I really like, but haven’t had much time to compare it with other microphones in it’s own (or lower) price range. Has anyone here done that? Results? Any othe rmic out there which is as quiet and sounds as good? (And no, Craig, I don’t work for Neumann :-))

[DC]

[quote]Originally posted by nativeaudio: [b]I have a TLM 103 that I really like, but haven't had much time to compare it with other microphones in it's own (or lower) price range. Has anyone here done that? Results? Any othe rmic out there which is as quiet and sounds as good? (And no, Craig, I don't work for Neumann :-))[/b][/quote]I really really like the 103 on acoustic guitar, but on vox on me and my partner (female vox) I like these similar priced and lower priced mics better: AKG 414, Blue Blueberry, SP C1, Rodent 1000

[Hippie]

I hear a lot of people raving about the Rode NTK. At GC in December, they are selling them for $499.00.

[KenElevenShadows]

There's no such thing as the best mic in any price range. The best mic in any price range is the best mic that suits your particular wants and needs.

[nativeaudio]

[quote]Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows: [b]There's no such thing as the best mic in any price range. The best mic in any price range is the best mic that suits your particular wants and needs.[/b][/quote]Sure. But TLM-103 is measurably a lot more quiet than any mic I have heard in this range (which is important for some of the work I do). Secondly, it has proven very useful for a lot of things, like piano, overhead, vocals (male & female)... I have compared it with other microphones that also claim to be quiet and multi-functional, and in most cases the TLM just come out as the winner. So my reply to your statement about that there is no such things as a "best mic in any range" must be yes, but also no... :-) I would still be thankful if some of you have good mic-experiences to share....

[KenElevenShadows]

The quietest mic doesn't necessarily qualify as the best mic, especially if one is doing rock music (if doing quiet sound sources, it obviously becomes more important; if micing a Marshall stack, it's of little consequence). If that's important to you, then of course the quietest mics will go to the top of the list for you. Someone else might need a really rugged mic that handles super-high SPLs, is dynamic, and has an extended, exaggerated low-end. Some others want superb rejection when off-axis and reduction of handling noise. Others might want a really extended high frequency range. Others might want flatness and neutrality. Others might want an omni and can do measurement specs. Some may want a really down and dirty mic to blow their harmonica into and have it come out an amp. A Royer is an outstanding value in a similar $$ ballpark. A beyerdynamic M201 or a Sennheiser 421 is stunning for its price range. In your last post, you revealed some of what you want a mic for, and that's useful information. In your first post, you simply asked, "Is the TLM 103 the best mic in its price range?" without providing information, and with that little information, the best answer truly is, "There's no such thing, there's only the best mic for your wants/needs." Given your NEW information, then yes, a TLM 103 is probably the best mic for your purposes since you value low self-noise and versatility. Obviously, you also like the sound of it on things, and that is one of the most important aspects of finding a mic, just like with monitors. I also really like my modified Audio Technica AT 4051/4049 small diaphragm condensers with interchangeable capsules, but probably for different reasons than what you would want the TLM 103 for.

[Gtoledo3]

[quote]Originally posted by nativeaudio: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows: [b]There's no such thing as the best mic in any price range. The best mic in any price range is the best mic that suits your particular wants and needs.[/b][/quote]Sure. But TLM-103 is measurably a lot more quiet than any mic I have heard in this range (which is important for some of the work I do).[/b][/quote]Lack of self noise is a good thing, but to be honest, I haven't had the displeasure of using a mic that has any kind of noticeable selfnoise, save some tube microphones. What mics have you found that this is a problem with? I think the tlm is pretty cool, it gets ragged on a lot, but I have a friend who actually gets some good room mic sounds with it. For me though, I think that the 414 b-uls, and the ksm 44 are just as quiet and are much more versatile- and in the same immediate range. I also think the tlm sounds a little "edgy" on vocals. The 414 has top end hype too, but in a better frequency range to my ears. Both of those mics would be good compliments to a tlm 103; same quality level, but you have the multiple patterns to mess with. And for what you're doing, it would be good to have an omni pattern mic around. IMO, the baby bottle sounds similar to a tlm 103, but my only experience with that mic was through a mackie ( I know! ) at my buddy's house.

[ECBRules]

TLM 103: I have gotten a very diverse amount of tones from this mic depending on how you preamp it. For vocals, I found it's better to use solid state preamps, and for things like acoustic guitar, you can really warm them up by using tubes. The tubes give the vocals a bigger presence but brings with it a unfixable metallic tone. You have to back the singer off a foot and a half for this mic, so the room you're in had better be quiet, as cpu fans, heating vents etc, will undoubtedly bleed into the mic with no mercy. As my friend best put it, "If a mouse in the corner broke wind, you'd definately hear it through the neumann".

[nativeaudio]

[quote] For me though, I think that the 414 b-uls, and the ksm 44 are just as quiet and are much more versatile- and in the same immediate range. I also think the tlm sounds a little "edgy" on vocals. --- IMO, the baby bottle sounds similar to a tlm 103, but my only experience with that mic was through a mackie ( I know! ) at my buddy's house.[/quote]Yes, the TLM can be a little edgy on vocal sometimes... that’s why I’m looking for something better, but hopefully as quiet as the TLM. Btw, the reason I didn’t specify much in my first post that I’m actually looking for some sort of allround mic, which we all know is a tricky thing to look for... You mention the 414b-uls, I actually did an A/B comparism between the two yesterday, and the output of the AKG is so low compared with the Neumann that it actually ends up as being a more noisy mic. Both on my TLA Ivory and VC1Q it just doesn’t "get loud enough"... (I record a lot of tiny ethnic instruments, low level female vocal, use tebetan bowls and bells for film music...) I’ll relisten to the recordings today and try to listen to the AKG with a little extra friendlyness to see if that helps :-/ Someone gave it to me because he didn’t like it, so maybe I even didn’t really listen.....

[Gtoledo3]

Hmmm, I find those to be two particularly noisy preamps. The Meek a little less so. I prefer the Tl-II variant to the B-ULS for vocals.

[AEW]

All mics are good for the right job, so one mic is not enough. There's even a place in the studio for the old but trusty Shure SM58. Can't go wrong with Rode mics, cheap and sound good. The only problem with Neumann large diaphram mics is that there is a big jump in price from the TLM103, but gee they're good. EG: Neumann M147 Nick

[nativeaudio]

[quote]Originally posted by GT3: [b]Hmmm, I find those to be two particularly noisy preamps. The Meek a little less so. [/b][/quote]Interesting. So what do you recommend? I love to work on Focusrite Red Series, but don’t love their price...

[nativeaudio]

[quote]Originally posted by keny: [b]TLM 103: I have gotten a very diverse amount of tones from this mic depending on how you preamp it. For vocals, I found it's better to use solid state preamps, and for things like acoustic guitar, you can really warm them up by using tubes. The tubes give the vocals a bigger presence but brings with it a unfixable metallic tone. You have to back the singer off a foot and a half for this mic, so the room you're in had better be quiet, as cpu fans, heating vents etc, will undoubtedly bleed into the mic with no mercy. As my friend best put it, "If a mouse in the corner broke wind, you'd definately hear it through the neumann".[/b][/quote]Well, I have all the noisy stuff in another room, and almost no mice in here! Anyway, interesting observations you have - which mike do you prefer on vocals yourself?

[alphajerk]

i personally hate the tlm103. i think its a horrendous sounding mic. different strokes fer different folks.

[nativeaudio]

[quote]Originally posted by alphajerk: [b]i personally hate the tlm103. i think its a horrendous sounding mic. different strokes fer different folks.[/b][/quote]Which mics do you love?

[Hippie]

Native Audio, GC stands for 'Guitar Center'. They have stores probably in all of the lower 48 states. -I would have responded in PM but it wouldn't let me send to you. You need to turn on (in your member profile) 'allow forum members to send you private messages' I shouldn't assume folks knew this, sorry 'bout that. Words of the late, great Walter Mathau.. 'when you assume, you make an ass of u and me' Matt

[alphajerk]

[quote]Originally posted by nativeaudio: [b] [quote]Originally posted by alphajerk: [b]i personally hate the tlm103. i think its a horrendous sounding mic. different strokes fer different folks.[/b][/quote]Which mics do you love?[/b][/quote]personally, i like soundelux mics over [modern] neumanns. i even prefer the 40series AT mics. im not sure what your obsession of a mic being quiet is sincei mostly do rock music so the mic being super quiet isnt a main concern of mine, while coloration is.... although some soundelux are used for a bit of foley work so i would guess they are fairly quiet. i prefer mics with character and personality. modern neumanns just dont have that... their sound is quite boring to my ears. also, you just mention the mic and dont mention the applications of said mic, what are you using it for? i dont think i own [or have used] any mic that applies to all sources or all circumstances. honestly i prefer a wide variety to have on hand to use and cant really say there is a "best" mic at all. sometimes my cheap ass sm57 is the "best" mic on a source/application.... or even cheaper shure commando mic wins out.

[KenElevenShadows]

I have an AT4060 (modified) that I like. Everything seems to sound good through a Lawson L251. Two very useful, versatile mics.

[Philip OKeefe]

Nativeaudio, you mentioned that you find the TLM a little "edgy" on some vocals... if that's the case, you might want to try the BLUE Baby Bottle... it's a pretty good sounding mic for around $500, and has no presence peak to speak of... but it doesn't really sound overly "dark" either. I'd tend to side with Alphajerk - I really like the Soundelux mics... if you can, definitely check out the Soundelux U195. It's a bit more than your TLM103 (around $1,100 - $1,200) but they're very good mics. BTW, when it comes to self noise, stay away from 251's - even the Soundelux ELUX 251 (which is a bit quieter than the vintage Telefunken ELA M251's) hits with about 27 dBA self noise... but it's never been a problem for me. ;) Also, it might help to know what preamps you're using with the mic(s), since that can make a considerable difference too.

[nativeaudio]

[quote]Also, it might help to know what preamps you're using with the mic(s), since that can make a considerable difference too.[/QB][/quote]Sure - right now, I use TLA Ivory 5001 and JoeMeek VC1Q, but will also get myself a more neutral sounding preamp in the future, just don’t know which yet...

[ECBRules]

Currently I've no choice but the neumann. I'll be getting a 414 and a U87 within a few months though. All preferences aside, I chose the neumann because of the brand name, not the sound. People react differently when you say that you have one, and I have two. Makes for an excellent stereo pair over a drumset. I must admit that it was a business decision to get the neumann. But then I've worked with the u87 and found it to be excellent. I also dig the AKG C12 vr which is a ridiculous tube mic. Keny

[Philip OKeefe]

Keny, if you like the C12vr, you should try to listen to a vintage C12 if you ever get the opportunity - they're worlds apart. ;)

[ernest828]

True there is no perfect mic for every situation even though I think the 57 is going to cover you most of the time. The 103 is excellent for the price and I use it all the time for my vocals but when it comes to acsoutic guitar there are other mics that do a great job as well. The other mics I would consider in its price range: AT4050 Blue mics Rode AKG Ernest

[Uh Clem]

I don't get so jazzed about the TLM 103 either - I think it satisfies the goal of "Nuemann Character" at a reasonable price point - a jack of a few trades but master of none. At that price point, there are probably other more useful mics, many that have been mentioned: MD421, RE20, KM184, AKG C451B, 414BULS, AT40xx, Royer, Blue, etc. I'm also a fan of Soundelux mics, but I think they start above your price point. The only mics mentioned that I've ever noticed being sensative noise-wise is the Royer121 with quite a low output - the nature of the beast I guess - but stuck in front of a Marshall cab where it belongs, or over the drums, that is not going to be a probelm either. I think specialization with mics or a well-rounded collection is the way to go. You have the TLM103 sound - any of the above mics could sound as good or better actually, in the right application and are quiet into a good pre-amp/signal path. The last time I made a serious mic purchase, I wrote up a list of my mic cab and asked a specialist to recommend something that would compliment what I already had. It worked out very well. My fav all around mic I have though is an M149 :D - but thank goodness there are plenty of affordable mics to do the grunt work along with it.

[RangerJay]

A great price/performance mic, often overlooked, is the ADK A-51 series. I used one on a project this weekend (not at my studio), and found it to be an excellent microphone. Worked on acoustic guitar, electric guitar, and, with a bit of EQ, female vox. I'm thinking of picking one up for myself. They can be had starting at $200 for the base model with shock mount. The high end ADK models cost more, and I would love to hear them in action. However, for the price, these A-51 things deliver. In a blind taste test, I would have thought I was listening to a Neuman U-series. No kidding. Really added to the quality of the project.

[KenElevenShadows]

[quote]Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe: [b]Keny, if you like the C12vr, you should try to listen to a vintage C12 if you ever get the opportunity - they're worlds apart. ;) [/b][/quote]So you've heard the Lawson L251? How does it compare to a vintage C12? Thanks!

[Philip OKeefe]

No, I have still not had the opportunity to audition the Lawson L251... I wanted to at AES, but was just too busy with other things. Of course, I'm very familiar with the Telefunken and Soundelux 251's. The Tele 251 was made by the same company (AKG) that made the C12, and uses the same capsule (CK-12) but the electronics are a bit different. 251's, because of the way the capsules are wired for the polar patterns (when compared to the C12) is a bit quieter and a little more robust in the output levels. The body diameters and grilles are also different, which affects the resonant frequencies and upper HF response charecteristics. They have a similar sound (a "family resemblence", if you will) but there's definite sonic differences. I've been very impressed with Soundelux mics - but I'd still like to hear Gene's 251 inspired mic though!

[KenElevenShadows]

Thanks! So far, I really like the L251, but I don't have much to compare it to except for my modded AT4060, which is also a nice sounding mic, but very different from the L251.

[Rheolwr]

The AKG 414 must be one of the best all round bargains. It's my mic of choice for acoustic guitar, drum overheads and piano and was my favourite vocal mic until I got the AKG Solidtube. It is a good mic (I have two myself) but I find it a bit bland. I'm afraid the U87s only get used for trumpet or trombone these days unless I'm short of mics on a job.

[Gtoledo3]

[quote]Originally posted by Rheolwr: [b] I'm afraid the U87s only get used for trumpet or trombone these days unless I'm short of mics on a job.[/b][/quote]!!!!!!!