Chords, I need help.

[Slowly]

A song I'm writing changes from Bb to Db. I'm having a problem getting from the F, which is the last chord in the turnabound to the Db. The Db is a single note. I've tried using Ab,C, then Db. It sounds okay but off flavor for the song. I tried Bb chord, Eb chord, then Db singe note, but that's too busy. Any suggestions, I'll try them all. Thanks. Kcbass

[Dan South]

Try this...

 

... F Ebm7 Ab7 Db

[Dave Pierce]

Hard to know if I'm helping much without hearing the song, but have you tried fooling around with the Bbm, since Db is the third of that chord?

 

--Dave

[Slowly]

Originally posted by Dave Pierce:

Hard to know if I'm helping much without hearing the song, but have you tried fooling around with the Bbm, since Db is the third of that chord?

 

--Dave

You might be on to something. I tried Bb, not Bbm. Thanks. Kcbass

[Slowly]

Originally posted by Dan South:

Try this...

 

... F Ebm7 Ab7 Db

See, I never even thought of 7th. Thanks. Kcbass

[marino]

You could also try a Gb chord, maybe with an Ab (note) as bass. It should lead nicely to Db.

[Slowly]

Originally posted by marino:

You could also try a Gb chord, maybe with an Ab (note) as bass. It should lead nicely to Db.

Nice pointer, Ab,Bb,Eb,Gb, with Db in the bass. Lets the soloist get a good moan out. Don't know what chord that is. Kcbass.

[Dan South]

Originally posted by Kcbass:

Originally posted by marino:

You could also try a Gb chord, maybe with an Ab (note) as bass. It should lead nicely to Db.

Nice pointer, Ab,Bb,Eb,Gb, with Db in the bass. Lets the soloist get a good moan out. Don't know what chord that is. Kcbass.

Gb/Ab (also known as Gb with an Ab bass) is a substitute chord for Ab7 or Ab9. Another substitute would be Ebm/Ab. In fact, Ebm7/Ab is identical to Ab9(sus4). Cool, huh?

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by Kcbass:

A song I'm writing changes from Bb to Db. I'm having a problem getting from the F, which is the last chord in the turnabound to the Db. The Db is a single note. I've tried using Ab,C, then Db. It sounds okay but off flavor for the song. I tried Bb chord, Eb chord, then Db singe note, but that's too busy. Any suggestions, I'll try them all. Thanks. Kcbass

Db is the relative major of Bb minor. But of course you are in Bb major.

 

I see the following (good) ideas have already been suggested:

 

Play the minor IV chord of Bb and treat it as the ii chord of Db.

 

Start on the minor I chord (Bb minor)

 

Here are some more ideas.

 

The VI chord of the minor is always a useful pivot between the minor and relative major since its the IV chord of the major. For Bb this is F# major. As you are on an F chord you could slide up to F# (Gb). You then have choices.

 

You could continue up to Ab(the five of Db) and then down to Db.

 

You could also convert the IV chord to a ii chord by raising the 5 (Db) in the Gb chord to Eb and then proceed round the ii V I. Perhaps starting with the third (A) in the base on the F chord and climbing to the Eb.

 

Another way to get there is to raise the F of the F chord to Gb to get Gb diminished and then move to Db, perhaps passing the root through C on the way to Db. That gives you a nice tritone in the bass.

[Bucktunes]

Originally posted by Dan South:

Gb/Ab (also known as Gb with an Ab bass) is a substitute chord for Ab7 or Ab9. Another substitute would be Ebm/Ab. In fact, Ebm7/Ab is identical to Ab9(sus4).

AKA Ab11. That's how it's often notated on lead sheets. The "11" implies that the "sus4" is used instead of the 3rd. Most players will automatically use one of the voicings Dan mentioned. At my old music college, several teachers referred to this chord as a "pop (music) dominant".

 

Peace all,

Steve

[ReggaeIdrin]

u could try a Gbmin7 - B13/7 - Ab11 - Db and see if that works!

[Slowly]

Originally posted by Nygel:

u could try a Gbmin7 - B13/7 - Ab11 - Db and see if that works!

Your first post, and it in response to my question. Thanks for the suggestion and Welcome to Keyboard Corner. Kcbass

[Dan South]

KC,

 

I have another cool idea for you, a bit different from the circle of fifths approach that I mentioned previously.

 

If you're in the key of Bb major and you want to modulate to its relative minor (Gm - same key signature, right?), a logical circle of fifths approach would be to play

 

Am7(b5) ---> (notes: A C Eb G)

D7 ---> (notes: D F# A C)

Gm ---> (notes: G Bb D)

 

Of course you could use substitution chords like D7(#5) or D7(b9) or Gm11, etc. Find whatever sounds good.

 

But back to the task at hand, that D7 will lead nicely into the Db, especially if you can substitute DbMaj7 (Db,F,Ab,C) for the Db chord. So now your modulation progression is

 

Am7(b5) D7 DbMaj7

 

It works because D7 is an acceptable substituted for the dominant of Db (Ab7). And as a bonus, you get to give the listener a little surprise, because he or she is EXPECTING Gm instead of DbMaj7. I love this progression!!

 

[Slowly]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dan South:

KC,

 

I have another cool idea for you, a bit different from the circle of fifths approach that I mentioned previously.

 

If you're in the key of Bb major and you want to modulate to its relative minor (Gm - same key signature, right?), a logical circle of fifths approach would be to play

 

Am7(b5) ---> (notes: A C Eb G)

D7 ---> (notes: D F# A C)

Gm ---> (notes: G Bb D)

 

Of course you could use substitution chords like D7(#5) or D7(b9) or Gm11, etc. Find whatever sounds good.

 

But back to the task at hand, that D7 will lead nicely into the Db, especially if you can substitute DbMaj7 (Db,F,Ab,C) for the Db chord. So now your modulation progression is

 

Am7(b5) D7 DbMaj7

 

It works because D7 is an acceptable substituted for the dominant of Db (Ab7). And as a bonus, you get to give the listener a little surprise, because he or she is EXPECTING Gm instead of DbMaj7. I love this progression!!

 

Kcbass