God Awful Parenting

[whitefang]

Yes! Too much of it out there. Naw, I don't mean the dregs that leave their kids in cars on hot days, or the scum that beats the piss out of their kids 'cause they BLINKED. I'm talking about those nitwitted, fuzzy and warm "new-age" parents that are industriously raising the wimpiest generation in the history of America! I've had it up to "here" with these clowns. I look for tell-tale signs, like any peabrain that whines about wanting to "protect" their children from essentially harmless things. Take my niece, for example. She put V-chips and blockers and almost any other useless device on her TV, cable box and VCR in order to "protect" her son from the ravages of not pornography, but rather "harmful, sexually explicit material"! You mean FUCK FLICKS? SAY so, dammit! Good idea, hey what? Sure! Yes, never let them see two consenting adults engage in any activity that is otherwise described as "a beautiful experience." GOD no! Might have to actually SIT DOWN and explain something to them. Keep 'em ignorant instead. THAT'S good parenting! Then, she goes out and buys the kid $300 worth of video games that contain stabbings, shootings, beheadings, squishings, dismemberings, kung fu, swordplay and destruction of entire planets. GOOD for her. Kept that PORN away. Mother of the year! And what's with this silly-assed phrase, "Time Out!" "YOU'RE getting a TIME OUT, young man!" I guess that's the same as when I put my kids in the corner. But I SAID, "All right! You're ass is going in the CORNER!" Time out? You bet! LONG time! And no sitting in some comfy chair while you're there. You're ass is STANDING! Don't LIKE it? Think of THAT next time you feel like throwing an open can of paint at your sister! And personally, I have never heard a parent TELL their kid he's getting a time out. They always ASK. "Do you want a TIME OUT?" Sheesh. I never asked my kids if they wanted to go in the corner. I KNEW what THEIR answer would be. Dumb! Bike riding can be hazardous, I know. But I think they've gone a bit overboard in "protecting" the kids in this activity. Just this summer, I watched as the kid across the street rode his bike back and forth in front of his house. That's his limit! From the driveway to Mr. Clark's tree. The entire width of the property. And all the while, he's wearing a helmet! AND knee pads. AND elbow pads. AND a face mask. NHL goalies weren't as geared up as this kid. On top of that, he's pedaling a TRICYCLE! I raised two DAUGHTERS, and THEY weren't treated that pussified! Oh, yes. Those V-chips? Another niece installed all that stuff so her little darling wouldn't hear any objectionable language on TV. And why SHOULD he? His FATHER cusses enough to make Joe Pesci sound like a fuckin' PRIEST! Every day, I read and hear about parents who think they're doing their kids a favor by perpetuating ignorance. The old "if you don't TELL them, they'll never KNOW" routine. They figure if there's no sex education in school, they'll never get the idea into their heads. Oh, YEAH? Well, there WAS no sex education when I was in school, and the ideas took over, anyway! And other stupid shit like not passing out condoms in High School. Thinking that if it's done, the kids will feel free to screw like rabbits. Hey, Mom and Dad. Don't you remember? They already ARE screwing like rabbits. Condoms or no! Another peeve is those damned portable child seats. Take the kid out of the car, grab the handle, and there you have it! A baby-in-a-crate! What! Too lazy to CARRY the kid? Let him feel the warmth and security of your BODY next to his? Are those slings designed to carry babies a little too personal for ya? Why don't you get one of them "pet carriers" instead? What would be the freakin' DIFFERENCE, anyway? I guess this rant is because when I had kids, I never subscribed to Parent's Magazine, or obtained any books written by some sappy-eyed psycologist bent on telling me how to best raise my kids. Naw, I did it the old school way by using common sense, and the most radical idea I utilized was being open with and to them. I never thought being a good parent meant keeping my children ignorant of ANYTHING that went on in the world. Or "pretending" it didn't exsist. I'm seeing far too much of the opposite lately, and it just doesn't sit right with me. And now, flame on, new parents... Whitefang

[Gabriel E.]

My folks were liberal hippies. That being said, they would never let me run roughshod in retaurants, busses, etc. I used to run coffee shops and I would have to tell parents to keep their kids planted on a regular basis. One group of SUV moms was encouraging their toddlers to "race" from one end of the cafe to the other. This being a busy coffee shop where people are carrying around hot beverages. When I politely asked them to refrain from allowing their kids to run amuk they asked "why?". And I doubt that they would have hesitated to sick the lawyers on us had one of their kids gotten hurt. Whitefang: I agree completely re: TV/media. People who let their kids watch hours of unsupervised TV a day seem to be the ones who are always bitching that there's too much sex and violence on TV and that schools aren't "instilling morals and discipline" in their kids. I didn't know that was the teachers' job.

[Duhduh]

I absolutely agree. I watched something on the Trio channel the other night about sex in Sweden. Its seems Sweden has one of the most extensive sex education programs in the world. And guess what? They have the 3rd [i]lowest[/i] teen pregnancy rate in the world! They also have the lowest AIDS rate in the world. I also think we should start firearm education in schools to take out the mystery of guns. All of my group of friends had or were around guns when we were kids. We were all taught how to use them and how dangerous and serious they were. None of us even own guns as adults. But thats a whole other topic.

[Wow]

I agree with you 100% on this one.

[Henchman]

[quote]Originally posted by Duhduh: [b]I absolutely agree. I watched something on the Trio channel the other night about sex in Sweden. Its seems Sweden has one of the most extensive sex education programs in the world. And guess what? They have the 3rd [i]lowest[/i] teen pregnancy rate in the world! They also have the lowest AIDS rate in the world. I also think we should start firearm education in schools to take out the mystery of guns. All of my group of friends had or were around guns when we were kids. We all were taught how to use them and how dangerous and serious they were. None of us even own guns as adults. But thats a whole other topic.[/b][/quote]Yeah, typical isn't it. I grew up in the Netehrlands. You know, the country where they are alot more easy going on the liqour and drug laws. Well, I don't drink, and don't do drugs. In fact, when iw as going to sschool, I nmever saw any of my friends getting high or fall down dead drunk.

[timrocker]

Somewhat related to this thread, bear with me: You know what drives me nuts? On TV sitcoms or movies, people handle guns with complete disregard for safety. Two weeks ago on "That 70's Show" father and son go hunting. In that scene, they just let their guns point at each other by accident and didn't even notice it. Anyone who grew up hunting (I grew up in Montana, you know) just cringes when they do that on TV. People who do that in real life get their guns taken away, instantly. There is no second chance. Okay, rant over.

[whitefang]

I found duhduh's point about guns interesting. I usually advocate some kind of firearm control, but can't at this point recommend a solution. But, I do know from experience that the kids I know who were raised around guns and taught to respect their power and danger grew up to either not own any, or keep them locked up and unloaded in the house. One friend of mine, an avid hunter, uses a rifle with a bolt-action. Every season, he buys only 10 rounds of ammo. Whatever he doesn't use, he gives to a friend, or tosses them into a lake. Then when he gets home, he removes the bolt and pin after cleaning, and puts them in a safe deposit box at the bank. If his kids get ahold of the gun, there's no ammo to shoot, and no way to shoot it anyway. Learned this from his Dad, who learned it from HIS Dad, who learned it from HIS, and so on... Any parent worth their salt knows better than to think they got it covered by telling the kid to "keep away" from this or that. The best child-rearing advice I ever got came from my Mother, who only advised, "Never put ANYTHING past your kids!" And it served me well! Whitefang

[Tedster]

My own personal pet peeve...HOMESCHOOLING. Why anyone would raise their kids in an "ideal" world and cheat them out of developing social skills that will help them in real world situations is beyond me. What really happens to these poor kids when they get out from under mommy's overprotective wing?

[Super 8]

Where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink, he would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Some times he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy, the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical, summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds, pretty standard really. At the age of 12 I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen, a Zoroastrian woman named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum, it's breathtaking, I suggest you try it. [img]http://www.whysanity.net/monos/evil.JPG[/img]

[patrick_dont_fret]

Rock on Super 8, that happened to you too? Wow, I thought me and Dr. Eevill were the only ones. Nah, I was raised under a pretty solid roof. Both my parents were pretty avid smokers, and my dad was/is an alcoholic. They've been divorced some time now, which is good and bad at the same time. Me, nowadays, I'm not so angry. I still have a pretty short fuse, and demonstrated it once this past weekend after a two-night Widespread Panic concert (in which I consumed much alcohol and had a constant cloud following me). I don't do that too much anymore, and I am still shocked at my actions. If I ever get married and have kids, I definitely won't be overprotective, but certainly not underprotective either. I believe in everything in moderation (shut up, a whole lot of something every once in a while is still moderation, alright), so my children will be exposed to the dangers of life, but not subjected to them...if that makes sense. I think I had a pretty good childhood, I just wish I could remember it to know for sure.

[fantasticsound]

[quote]Originally posted by Tedster the Pilgrim: [b]My own personal pet peeve...HOMESCHOOLING. Why anyone would raise their kids in an "ideal" world and cheat them out of developing social skills that will help them in real world situations is beyond me. What really happens to these poor kids when they get out from under mommy's overprotective wing?[/b][/quote]I'm afraid you're WAY off base on this one, Ted. Fact is, homeschooled kids are generally far BETTER socialized than those in public schools. And the reason is common sense. They are forced to interact, not only with peers their own age, but with people of all ages. Do you really think it's better for your kids to be socialized by other kids? I have two words for you that mean very little to most homeschooled children, but are paramount to any public school child: peer pressure. Homeschooling may not be for everyone, and I'm not sure we're headed down that road for Lilly, but one look at the state of public schools (and I went to a reknowned high school on Chicagoland's upscale, North Shore) and it's amazing anyone trusts their kids education and safety in the hands of these institutions. I won't.

[Franknputer]

I'm with Neil here - not everyone can do it, but if your school REALLY sucks, what can you do?

[Bunny Knutson]

We have an SUV. We discipline our kid with time-outs. We make our kid wear a helmet when he rides a bike or skates. We home school. My oldest son (of two) is four and a half years old. He can read and write, and he's an excellent athlete. He loves his little brother. My youngest son just turned one this week! He's learning to walk. Five steps is his current record. He loves his big brother. They're both very well socialized, and if ya don't believe me, I'll let ya talk to my son on the phone. ;)

[Super 8]

Okay, okay. New parent here. About to be a new parent again for the second, AND LAST time -We'll see to that... I DO feel the need to address some of this stuff. So here goes: [quote]Originally posted by whitefang: [b]"protect" their children [/quote][/b] This is just a 'buzz-word' that the industry uses to get parent's attention. Mostly it's about the Internet. Anyone seen that MSM 'Butterfly' dude? Kinda looks like Woody Allen in tights... I'd be more concerned about "Protecting" my kids from HIM! But to be fair, the stuff you can find pretty easily on the Net, makes the stuff I had hidden under my bed as a teen look downright 'virginal'! Maybe 'protect' isn't that bad of a word, in that regard. [quote]Originally posted by whitefang: [b]Sure! Yes, never let them see two consenting adults engage in any activity that is otherwise described as "a beautiful experience." GOD no! Might have to actually SIT DOWN and explain something to them. Keep 'em ignorant instead. THAT'S good parenting![/quote][/b] Well, it's hard to argue with that. I'm pretty loose about that kind of stuff. I think that Americans are pretty damn prudish about sex. And yes, we are a bunch of lustfilled slobering bastards! We know it! We just don't want to admit to it! I agree, if we just came to terms with it, there would be less dysfunction because we wouldn't all be repressing natural desires. I'm pretty liberal on my attitude toward sex. Nudity too. The body isn't a bad thing, and sex isn't 'dirty'. But it CAN be inappropriate, and knowing about that requires teaching. I don't plan on having that "little talk" with my children though. I really want them to grow up just knowing this stuff. If my wife and I are intimate, we aren't going to hide it, or pretend like it never happens (please don't take this to mean that we're going at it on the kitchen table while the kids are eating breakfast). I feel that a proper attitude toward sex needs to be modeled. Again, that doesn't mean 'demo-ed'. But I want our kids to know that Mom and Dad love each other, kiss, and have sex -often. If their raised with those expectations, hopefully it will seem like a natural function of a family, and they'll get something positive out of it. Masturbation isn't going to be a taboo subject either! Now while I personally have never engaged in that sort of activity myself, I know many people have, and I have no intentions of having my children feel wrong for doing that. Now, if there are no further questions?Good-let's move on to the next subject... [quote]Originally posted by whitefang: [b]And what's with this silly-assed phrase, "Time Out!" "YOU'RE getting a TIME OUT, young man!" And personally, I have never heard a parent TELL their kid he's getting a time out. They always ASK. "Do you want a TIME OUT?" Sheesh. [/quote][/b] The problem isn't 'Timeouts', it's that most parents don't know what a timeout is or how to implement it -THAT'S the problem. They are used as punishment -like what you described about standing in the corner. THAT sounds like punishment. Actually most parents I've seen don't even get that far. They just nag, and say "1,2,3,,,3,,Did you hear me!?!? 1,2,3,,,ffffourrrr," -and so on. Completely INEFFECTIVE! A REAL timeout is just that. Have you ever needed a timeout to collect yourself? It's the same thing. Kids don't impose timeouts on themselves like adults sometimes have to do. Kids get hyperfocused, and off-task, and into their own little worlds. The purpose of a timeout isn't to punish them, it's to disipline them to develop self-control. It effectively removes them from whatever they were too involved in, and allows them time to regain control over their behavior. Then they can come back and resume their activity. That's not so bad is it?And you NEVER threaten!!! You do it, or you don't do it. If you need to threaten, your child is already too far out of line, and you are just letting it continue. It's not punishment, it's an opportunity to help your kids grow up -that's an important distinction... [quote]Originally posted by whitefang: [QBBike riding can be hazardous, I know. But I think they've gone a bit overboard I watched as the kid across the street rode his bike back and forth in front of his house. That's his limit! And all the while, he's wearing a helmet! AND knee pads. AND elbow pads. AND a face mask. NHL goalies weren't as geared up as this kid. [/quote][/QB] You never actually told us the age of this child. I can't speak for them, but I know that my kids will have helmets and maybe elbow/kneepads as needed. I have the scars on my elbows to prove how benificial the pads would have been. The helmet makes sense. I've NEVER hit my head while riding a bike. But it only takes 1 good knock and you could be without teeth, or have severe head trauma -and this happens FAR TOO OFTEN. It's worth the precaution. The problem I have, is when you see families riding together and the kids all have helmets, but the PARENTS don't! Sorry Mom and Dad, but the likelihood of you suffering a serious injury is greater than that of your kids! Time to wake up and smell that coffee... [quote]Originally posted by whitefang: [b] And other stupid shit like not passing out condoms in High School. Hey, Mom and Dad. Don't you remember? They already ARE screwing like rabbits. Condoms or no! [QUOTE][QB] I'm not opposed to kids having them, but I have to be honest in saying that I don't think I want to pay for school to hand them out. It has nothing to do with "advocating" sex, I just don't think it's the school's place to raise people's kids for them. What the hells wrong with getting your raincoats the way everyone else gets them? Embarrased? So what, you think shy kids will be more likely to go to the school nurse for them??? Doubtfull. Same with sex ed. Teachers don't want to be put in the position of 'raising' other people's kids. Let's not force that on them. It's really the parent's job. [QUOTE]Originally posted by whitefang: [QB]Another peeve is those damned portable child seats. grab the handle, A baby-in-a-crate! What! Too lazy to CARRY the kid? Let him feel the warmth and security of your BODY next to his? Are those slings designed to carry babies a little too personal for ya? [/quote][/b] Hey, they worked pretty well for me! Carrying a child upright for any distance is HARD on your back -even if their only 10 pounds! Carriers are a BIG convenience for little LITTLE tykes. They outgrow them soon enough. And for the record, I have a sling (they're great), and two backpack- style carriers. They work great, and don't bother your back, but can take time to setup -especially if the little one decides to be difficult about it. In fact, the backpack is REALLY a two person job, though I have been known to get it working on my own. By the way. The gun program in schools sounds like an idea I can get behind! I'm certain it's far too controvitial to ever take hold, but it sure makes sense. I'm not a gun owner either. I've never even fired a REAL gun! I would think most kids would line up to take a class like that, and they would learn how to have proper respect for a firearm. Plus they would get to actually shoot a gun, maybe several! I'd love to try a 357 just to feel the kick! I'd bet it would have a very positive effect on kids! Great idea!

[BrianT]

We homeschool. My kids are comfortable hanging with anybody from infants to senior citizens, they play soccer, take ballet, hang out with their friends, do sleepovers, are avid readers, are very well adjusted (at least IMO) and currently test academically on standard national testing at between 3 and 5 grades ahead of their age group. We just mainstreamed my 10 year old into a fulltime private school. A tough one, academically. In sixth grade, she is 2 years younger than the next youngest on her class, but that's where she fit, academically. She dropped right in, is having a great time, made good friends in the first week and currently sets the grading curve for the class. She told me she was expecting the schoolwork to be a lot harder, LOL. But beyond any of that, she's just a cool person, IMO. From personal experience, I fail to see the problem with homeschooling when it's from a balanced perspective. I don't really mean to brag so much on my own kids, but in responding to the critique of homeschooling, how else to you do it? Homeschooling has been an awesome experience for my family. I wish I could have had it so good as a kid. Regards, Brian T

[Jotown]

When I was a kid we didn't have TIME OUT, we had KNOCK OUT, As in, if you didn't stop that you would get KNOCKED OUT. Now as a parent of two daughters, I never spanked my kids, or gave them time outs per se. I would talk to them. I would make up little morality tales with their toys and they would figure out the point I was trying to make. I did the best I could and now they are both in college and call me every day. I am very proud of them both and I am glad that they are not babies now because it just gets harder and harder to ralse kids in this world.

[S_Gould]

Hmmm, I don't think the homeschool thing has a simple answer. I believe it's one of those things that has to do with HOW it's implimented. I've gotta say that I'm with Ted as far as the way it tends to go around here. I met quite a few homeschooled kids & their parents while working at the local music store. The large majority of them were 1) very right wing (we're talking militia, income tax is illegal, don't trust the gov't, here) 2) held strong non-mainstream religious views 3) in many cases the kids are not allowed to even TALK to public school kids (don't want them getting ideas). I've got to say that the kids seemed to be very intelligent, very (musically) talented and diligent about prectice and lessons,extremely well behaved, and were very impressive when interacting with adults. However, I never saw them laugh or even smile, they seemed too serious for my idea of well rounded children. In at least 2 cases one or both of the parents were arrested for child abuse. Like I said, it depends on how it's implimented (which depends on the motivation of the parents). It doesn't take a genius to see that public schools are not doing a very good job in many places, but it takes a WAY above average parent - or rather, pair of parents - to take on the responsibility of homeschooling. I do have some perspective on this; both my parents were teachers. Homeschooling, per se, isn't bad parenting (nor is it necessarily good). However, parents who have an agenda beyond just better education - or those who don't realize that there are experiences their children need that they can't get at home - may be doing their children a greater disservice than if they just supplimented the public school experience with some ADDITIONAL home schooling. Best of both worlds, that way.

[Bunny Knutson]

I'm sorry to hear that you've come in contact with such poor examples of home schoolers, S_Gould. We're certainly not like that! ;)

[patrick_dont_fret]

[quote] Originally posted by Super8: [b]If my wife and I are intimate, we aren't going to hide it, or pretend like it never happens (please don't take this to mean that we're going at it on the kitchen table while the kids are eating breakfast). I feel that a proper attitude toward sex needs to be modeled. Again, that doesn't mean 'demo-ed'. But I want our kids to know that Mom and Dad love each other, kiss, and have sex -often. If their raised with those expectations, hopefully it will seem like a natural function of a family, and they'll get something positive out of it. [/b] [/quote]Hahahaha, that's pretty funny...going at it on the kitchen table while the kids are eating breakfast... "Sorry, don't mind us" [quote] Originally posted by Super8: [b]Masturbation isn't going to be a taboo subject either! Now while I personally have never engaged in that sort of activity myself, I know many people have, and I have no intentions of having my children feel wrong for doing that.[/b] [/quote]Bullshit you've never taken Herman to the circus. That's a damn lie. Saying that you don't jerk off is like saying that you jerk off 4 times a day. Come on, man...everyone knows you do, or at least did a lot when you were younger, but got married so you wouldn't have to as much.

[Bunny,]

[quote]Originally posted by Super 8: [b]Masturbation isn't going to be a taboo subject either! Now while I personally have never engaged in that sort of activity myself, [/b][/quote]Yeah right Super 8!! You pull it like a madman!

[Gabriel E.]

Disclaimer: I'm about to brush with broad strokes here. I understand that every generation has lousy parents and great parents. The following theory definitely generalizes. I think the current spate of lousy parents is a generational thing. A lot of parents currently in their 40s and 50s are boomers (also known as the "me generation" and not without reason). Lets face it: for whatever reasons, a lot of people in this age group are narcissistic and self-centered. They were irresponsible well into their adulthood and now they're irresponsible parents - they are/were never willing to make the necessary personal sacrifices that effective parenting requires. They had kids in the first place as a means to get attenton because kids are a popular "accesory". Once the kids became a lot of work and start requiring their undivided time and attention, they were unwilling to alter their lifestyles completely to accomodate the children. So kids get plopped in front of the TV or raised by nannies while the parents continue to "network", concentrate on their careers, shop for BMW and Lexus SUVs, go antiquing, and visit their friends in the Hamptons. Now their older children are entering the workforce. As an employer, I see their applications all the time. Ever see a 20 year old who hasn't ever had a job of any kind? I've seen plenty. The kids have a poor sense of structure and don't respond well to limits because they're not used to having them. Fire someone for being late for the umpteenth time and they start whining that they "need" the job and call you an Asshole. Tell someone to get off their ass and go scrub the bathrooms and they look at you like you shot their dog. Tell them to mop the floor and they (seriously) ask you how. Although I'll admit that some of these kids are surprisingly self-sufficient. They all seem to have learned it the hard way though. I wonder what kind of parents they'll make.

[Hippie]

For my daughters' birthday, I was taking all the neighborhood kids to see the first Harry Potter film. One of the girls parents, (serious bible thumpers) didn't let her go because the movie involved 'wizards & magic' and they didn't want their daugter to be exposed to those 'satanic false gods'. Fair enough. A year later the same little girl asks me to make her a cassette tape with Eminems song, 'Without me' (non-radio edit). So, I called her parents asking them if they approve of the explicit lyrics in the song. They said, 'sure, no problem'. :confused: No point here other than, if you are going to be neurotic with your kids, at least be consistant. :rolleyes: Matt

[PBBPaul]

There are just too many good off-topics today! I don't have time to reply to 'em all. I have to say that I'm on the same page as Whitefang. Rather than instilling senses of strength, confidence and self discipline it seems that the current trend in parenting leans more toward insulation from the world and society in general while letting them be "individuals" (read: do whatever you want regardless of others). We were at a friend-of-my-wife's house not too long ago. They have three kids and we brought my two along. I was amazed as their kids ran wild through the house, climbed on top of the counters to get at the candy right before dinner, threw things around the kitchen, ate maybe half of their meals then got up and ran around, getting more candy. I have trained my kids that meal time is pretty sacred. We eat together, talk and behave correctly. No elbows on the table, eat all of your food, no getting up until everybody is finished and then only with permission. After the meal, the kids clear the table and load the dishwasher. My ex-wife is another prime example. My nine-year-old is having trouble in school. Not because he can't do the work (he recently tested at a 7th grade reading level); but because he doesn't want to. Rather than using positively reinforced discipline, she sends him to "counselors". The first thing these jerks want to do is medicate him. "Oh it's not his fault that he's a normal kid". I can't even begin to describe the anger and pain I feel as I watch her do this shit. My son knows exactly what's going on too. He plays her like a vintage Les Paul. On the three days he is with me each week, his work is done in school - on time, he diligently does chores and is polite and nice to be around. She complains that he is sullen, needs to be told several times to do chores and never gets his schoolwork done on time. Hmmmm, is she trying to be his friend or his parent? Our state divorce/child/custody/support laws are ridiculously biased against men in our state but I have started quietly laying some groundwork to become primary custodian. Anyway, that's my whine on this subject.

[patrick_dont_fret]

Gabriel E., I don't feel like doing the required work to quote you, but you've hit the nail on the head. My parents are mid-40s (not too sure, exactly, as to their age), from the supposed "me-generation". I'm only 18, but I've worked at Kroger (not recommended for anyone, really), and at a Lenny's Sub Shop (2000% better than subway), and have worked several years at my local council's Boy Scout camp. I feel that though I'm sometimes a lazy bitch, when I put my mind to it, I can get anything done. When I worked at Kroger, they would tell me to do something, and I'd do it (unlike all the other slackers, I was the only hard-working dopehead there), no questions asked. I'm sure they would have liked to find something on me, but I quit before that. Anywho, there are some hard-working children of the "me-generation" out there, as you said, as well as a lot of slackers.

[Roto]

[quote]Originally posted by Tedster the Pilgrim: [b]My own personal pet peeve...HOMESCHOOLING. Why anyone would raise their kids in an "ideal" world and cheat them out of developing social skills that will help them in real world situations is beyond me. What really happens to these poor kids when they get out from under mommy's overprotective wing?[/b][/quote]Agreed! I have 4 cousins that were homeschooled. I don't know them too well, but I got a chance to visit with their folks last year. The oldest son somehow turned out ok, but he may have went to public school for all I know. He went to the air-force straight out of high school and has been there over 10 years. The rest of em though are in their mid to early twenties and have always seemed to be about 5 years younger than they really are. They all still live at home. The two boys both work at Target and the daughter (the youngest) doesn't have a job or go to school. The two sons living at home have some hope if they get out of the house soon, at least they have some social skills. The daughter speaks practically in a whisper and is very uncomfortable around people. It's very sad. Their mother is just an idiot. She rambles on and on about every little thing, such as how the only thing she likes on tv are cartoons, and she doesn't like any movies that are sad.

[Franknputer]

I think the real issue with both options is poor teaching. Home schooling works only if you work hard at it, and can actually teach. If the parent is a dummy, then it's not much different than sending them to a school where the teacher is a dummy.

[SFOracle]

I suspect there are as many different opinions on parenting as there are parents. So I will add my own (as a parent of 2 boys). As far as access to "adult" material I try to keep one thing in mind. Children are children and adults are adults. There is a lot of subject matter that is okay for adults, but is not appropriate for children. I don't think I am being over protective by trying to ensure that my children equiped to make age appropriate judgements. I personally feel that violence on TV and in video games is far more damaging than nudity or sex will ever be. However, I also recognize that sex as depicted on TV is anything but healthy. On TV and in movies, virtually every interaction between men and women is either overtly sexual or has sexual undertones. Sex is expected in every male/femal interaction. It is always sex without any consequence, relationship or responsibility. How many times have you seen a sex scene in a movie or on TV where they even stop to consider contraception? And with the exception of TV shows annual "let's make a political statement" episode, no one ever gets pregnant or catches an STD. And let's not go into exploitation. When my boys are old enough, I will try and teach them about sex, intimacy and relationships rather than the self indulgent, exploitive garbage on TV. There is no doubt they will be exposed to sex on TV and in movies, but I am in no hurry to cause them to grow up any faster than they need to. I'm not at all prudish. I have no problems with nudity - but nudity is most often presented in a sexual manner. Nudity is used on TV to titilate and improve ratings. But I'm not going to install a V-chip on my TV. V-chips are for parents who can't be bothered to personally monitor what their children are watching. I also have a real problem with the amount of violence on TV and especially in video games. My boys are pretty young, (2 and 4) but I have no intention of ever buying them video games. I have friends whose children are completely addicted to violent video games. So many childrens shows are violent - Power Rangers, all the robot or transformer shows. But it is the video games where the really bad stuff happens (the shootings, beheadings, disembowlments etc.). I just can't believe how many parents think this stuff is benign. We were up in Lake Tahoe last winter with several other families. Right after we got there, Hwy #50 was closed due to a very heavy snow fall. The next day was beautiful. There was a great sledding hill across the road from the house we were staying in so we thought it would be great to go sledding with the kids. We had to almost physically drag many of the older kids away from the gameboys and video games to get them out of the house. Once we got them away from the video games they have a great time, an experience they would never have had unless we forced them to turn off the video games and come outside. My boys aren't old enough to use the Internet yet, but when they are I intend to monitor what they do and see. I am not as concerned about the pronography as I am about the live interaction with strangers (chat rooms and Instant Messaging). There are predators on the Internet and giving your children unfettered access to the Internet is like inviting these creeps into your home. We have decided (at least at this point) to go the private school route for our oldest boy who will enter kindergarten next fall. The public schools where we live are not good and there are no charter schools or magnet schools within a reasonable distance. We are also however looking at moving back to Canada (Vancouver) where the public schools are generally better but there are fewer choices of private schools. Home schooling is not an option for us with 2 careers. I think home schooling can be done very well. I know of home schooled kids who are socially well adapted, polite, and academically ahead of their peers. I have also met home schooled kids who will argue that the earth is only 6000 years old and who blush, cry or feel shame if they hear the proper names for certain parts of the human anatomy. I guess just like public and private schools there are good and bad home schools.

[Jotown]

[quote]No point here other than, if you are going to be neurotic with your kids, at least be consistant.[/quote]I totally agree. Parents should always be consistently neurotic. :D

[Tedster]

Well, for the most part, although there are certainly exceptions, I will stand by my opinions about homeschooling. Most of the homeschoolers I know use it as an excuse to shield their kids from "the evils of the world" instead of building their kids up and teaching them that like it or not, the world is something we must all learn to function in, and that's part of public school. Learning to handle the bully. Learning sometimes painful lessons about popularity, snobbery, etc...pressures that the real world puts on people. I'm not saying that it's great to put your kids through that...I'm saying that unfortunately, it's part of life, and parents need to teach their kids how to cope with real world pressures rather than run away from them. Another problem I have with homeschooling is that, at least for me (and observed in quite a few other families)...the old saying "familiarity breeds contempt" may apply in that kids tend to listen harder to a teacher that has a formal relationship with the student (Mrs. Smith) rather than a personal one (Mom). Again, it depends on the parents...but it's like it's easier to teach someone else's kids guitar than your own. I think most kids (not all) tend to listen with more respect from someone who is not another family member. My 2 centavos...

[SFOracle]

But if you want to hear about really sick parenting, there was a story on sfgate.com yesterday, but it must be in the archives now. It mentioned 2 new disturbing trends in new age parenting. "Tummy Time" - I guess there is a theory that ever since pediatricians started to advise parents to have their infants sleep on their backs rather than their tummies (to prevent SIDS deaths), todays infants are delayed in developing the muscle control to raise their heads and to crawl. So they are advising parents to put their infants on thier tummies on the floor for a period of time each day and to suspend objects above them to encourage them to raise their heads. Apparently their is a huge and growing market now for "tummy time" toys and accessories and "tummy time parent and tot" classes. Parents are now fretting that their child is somehow not going to get into the right preschool, Kindergarten, school, high school, college etc. unless he/she learns to raise his head by 3 months and crawl by 9 months. As if first time parents don't have enough to worry about! Trend number 2 is the pressure that parents put themselves and their children under to get into the right preschool. Apparently some some father in Manhatten was caught in some scam involving stock options and giving out insider information in an effort to secure his toddler's place in a prestigious preschool. Other parents are paying thousands of dollars in tutors and consultants fees to prepare their children for preschool interviews. Talk about putting unreal pressure and expectations on the poor kids. I know parents like this and they are some of the worst excuses for parents I have ever seen. Their spoiled, undisciplined little brats are destined to be either future white collar criminals or the prosac popping, achoholic, stressed out jerks their parrents are. I am not against preschools. My oldest boy goes to a preschool. But putting this type of pressure for academic performance on such young children is close to abuse.